Conspiracy Theory

[Buce]

28 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Indeed, through disclosure or genuine whistleblowing because they have been impossible to conceal - but as I have said before, should we then conclude that every terrorist atrocity is a false flag simply because of Operation Northwoods?

 

Disagree. 

 

Conspiracy theory is a damaging creed and should not be confused with genuine scepticism or a true objective critical faculty. 

 

To these people the scientific method is pure anathema, they have no conception of burden of proof and often outwardly loath and resent the expertise that has seemingly eluded them. Precisely why Trump target and panders to them in his tweets and decrying the 'global elite'. Many are simply angry and often with good reason feel disenfranchised. Like I said, ripe for the plucking in respect of agenda ridden conspiracy theory.

 

Most disturbing of all is the sickening levels of antisemitism that these beliefs tend to endorse. 

 

Do you not believe that there is a 'global elite', or if you do, do you not believe that they manipulate specific individual societies and global society in general, in order to maintain the status quo?

[Benguin]

30 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Indeed, through disclosure or genuine whistleblowing because they have been impossible to conceal - but as I have said before, should we then conclude that every terrorist atrocity is a false flag simply because of Operation Northwoods?

 

Disagree. 

 

Conspiracy theory is a damaging creed and should not be confused with genuine scepticism or a true objective critical faculty. 

 

To these people the scientific method is pure anathema, they have no conception of burden of proof and often outwardly loath and resent the expertise that has seemingly eluded them. Precisely why Trump target and panders to them in his tweets and decrying the 'global elite'. Many are simply angry and often with good reason feel disenfranchised. Like I said, ripe for the plucking in respect of agenda ridden conspiracy theory.

 

Most disturbing of all is the sickening levels of antisemitism that these beliefs tend to endorse. 

You can't disagree that I find them enjoyable since enjoyment is subjective and not objective. 

[SpacedX]

13 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Do you not believe that there is a 'global elite', or if you do, do you not believe that they manipulate specific individual societies and global society in general, in order to maintain the status quo?

To an extent - through propaganda, vested interests in business and privilege. Global hegemony will always be machiavellian in nature. Do I view the Bilderberg Group in the same way as a conspiracy theorist?...probably not.

 

16 minutes ago, Benguin said:

You can't disagree that I find them enjoyable since enjoyment is subjective and not objective. 

I don't - I disagree from my perspective. 

[Benguin]

Whats peoples thoughts on what I consider to be the biggest mysteries?

 

Maddie McCann.

 

Was she abducted or did she die in the apartment.

 

The dyatlov pass incident.

 

Culmination of natural accidents or something more sinister?

 

Jill Dando.

 

Was she murdered for knowing something she ought not to about pedophile cover ups?

 

Lars Mitank?

 

Psychotic brake followed by suicide or the like or was he abducted/murdered. 

 

Area 51.

 

Military base used to develop u2 blackbird and the like or is it hiding more sinister things? 

 

The disclosure project.

 

Stephen Greer trying to make money or do several hundred government and military personnel truly believe we know about UFO and alien life already?

 

 

 

[Suzie the Fox]

Princess Diana. Accident or cover up. 

 

If it was an accident then what happened to the mystery car witnesses claim they saw and no one has been able trace. 

[SpacedX]

3 minutes ago, Suzie the Fox said:

Princess Diana. Accident or cover up. 

 

If it was an accident then what happened to the mystery car witnesses claim they saw and no one has been able trace. 

 

[Suzie the Fox]

4 minutes ago, Line-X said:

 

  

[Wymsey]

1 hour ago, Benguin said:

Whats peoples thoughts on what I consider to be the biggest mysteries?

 

Maddie McCann.

 

Was she abducted or did she die in the apartment.

 

The dyatlov pass incident.

 

Culmination of natural accidents or something more sinister?

 

Jill Dando.

 

Was she murdered for knowing something she ought not to about pedophile cover ups?

 

Lars Mitank?

 

Psychotic brake followed by suicide or the like or was he abducted/murdered. 

 

Area 51.

 

Military base used to develop u2 blackbird and the like or is it hiding more sinister things? 

 

The disclosure project.

 

Stephen Greer trying to make money or do several hundred government and military personnel truly believe we know about UFO and alien life already?

 

 

 

Didn't detectives find blood on the windowsill of the apartment she was staying in and their hire car?

Personally think she's in the Portugal or Spain region, but speculation about her disappearance could potentially put this forum into trouble.

[Benguin]

36 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Didn't detectives find blood on the windowsill of the apartment she was staying in and their hire car?

Personally think she's in the Portugal or Spain region, but speculation about her disappearance could potentially put this forum into trouble.

Yeah, dogs found inconclusive evidence. Lab said it could be Maddie's but might not be. The twins DNA is close enough to Maddie's that it easily could have been theres. I personally think the parents know more as they were very all over the place with their account of the night but I think it's more of a case that they were more negligent than they claimed in checking and not that they were directly involved.

[Colourmy]

20 minutes ago, Benguin said:

Yeah, dogs found inconclusive evidence. Lab said it could be Maddie's but might not be. The twins DNA is close enough to Maddie's that it easily could have been theres. I personally think the parents know more as they were very all over the place with their account of the night but I think it's more of a case that they were more negligent than they claimed in checking and not that they were directly involved.

2

This is my view. I believe they had left them all night, unchecked and unattended every night. Someone clocked on to it and was left unimpeded to snatch the child. 

[steflcfc]

I feel half the time that The Government and News outlets have half this information stored away till the time is right to publish/share.

 

Once one scandal comes out the rest comes to light from years ago., like that Harvey Weinstein case for abuse of power and how he treat women...to Oxfam and similar circumstances and now Jo Cox partner.

 

Or people cover up the truth, as if we really knew what happened with Madelin or mainly Princess Diana I’m sure it would get nasty and heads would roll.

Something was never right with how she passed and it’s deffo a cover up somewhere.

[leicsmac]

I don't normally buy into the idea of that many conspiraces - you'd think that at some point, with a conspiracy involving so many people, that someone would talk.

 

But then I look at stuff like COINTELPRO and realise it's entirely possible. They made their way into everything during the Civil Rights Movement - highlights including blackmailing Martin Luther King to get him to commit suicide.

 

"In the light of King's powerful demagogic speech. ... We must mark him now if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro, and national security."

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

I don't normally buy into the idea of that many conspiraces - you'd think that at some point, with a conspiracy involving so many people, that someone would talk.

 

But then I look at stuff like COINTELPRO and realise it's entirely possible. They made their way into everything during the Civil Rights Movement - highlights including blackmailing Martin Luther King to get him to commit suicide.

 

"In the light of King's powerful demagogic speech. ... We must mark him now if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro, and national security."

Also didnt something like 100,000 in total

work on the Manhattan Project and details never leaked out?

[Benguin]

1 hour ago, leicsmac said:

I don't normally buy into the idea of that many conspiraces - you'd think that at some point, with a conspiracy involving so many people, that someone would talk.

 

But then I look at stuff like COINTELPRO and realise it's entirely possible. They made their way into everything during the Civil Rights Movement - highlights including blackmailing Martin Luther King to get him to commit suicide.

 

"In the light of King's powerful demagogic speech. ... We must mark him now if we have not done so before, as the most dangerous Negro of the future in this nation from the standpoint of communism, the Negro, and national security."

What are your views on MI5 using control methods? Namely the allegation that they covertly filmed peadophillia at Kincora? 

[leicsmac]

58 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Also didnt something like 100,000 in total

work on the Manhattan Project and details never leaked out?

Yeah, for the most part the information never reached the public - though the USSR did have spies in the program so Stalin got to know about it before the Yalta conference and so the entire premise for secrecy was largely rendered moot anyway, barring the need to keep it secret from Nazi Germany.

 

39 minutes ago, Benguin said:

What are your views on MI5 using control methods? Namely the allegation that they covertly filmed peadophillia at Kincora? 

If they did that to use as leverage against various parties involved in the Troubles then I think that entirely plausible (though the official inquiry looks to have left them clean). COINTELPRO was a menagerie of similar tricks, by the sounds of it - amongst other things - and it's highly likely such tricks wouldn't be limited just to security services in the US.

 

Tbh I'm sticking with the viewpoint that I've held for some time; regardless of what government is in charge, if you have to keep an action that you take secret or deny it afterwards then it was likely a shitty action that you shouldn't have done in the first place.

 

Edited 18 February 2018 by leicsmac

[SpacedX]

7 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Also didnt something like 100,000 in total

work on the Manhattan Project and details never leaked out?

Nope - complete internet fallacy.

 

A lot of informal sharing of information went on between British and American scientists and the Canadians and Belgians government was also privy. The Manhattan Project was a cross between an academic research project and a top secret military project. The scientists were apt to share ideas and results with other scientists without too much regard for security protocols. General Lesley R. Groves did his best to run the Manhattan Project with appropriate military security but with mixed success. Some Manhattan Project scientists had dubious backgrounds, with leftist sympathies all the way up to Communist Party membership, or even worse for America, were foreigners with leftist sympathies. Groves tried to freeze out British participation in the Manhattan Project, in spite of an agreement struck by FDR and Churchill. Groves was mostly successful in limiting information and British participation until 1943 when British complaints reached higher levels. Groves was forced to accept a British delegation at Los Alamos.

 

The Soviet Union was an ally, of course, but not as close as an ally as Britain. The USSR had spies in the scientific team at Los Alamos, in the engineering teams in OakRidge, and in the theoretical and atomic energy teams around America. Of the atomic spies, amusingly a geezer called Fuchs, a German emigré physicist who came to the Manhattan Project by way of Britain and worked at Los Alamos did the most damage. He passed details of the gaseous diffusion method for uranium isotope separation, a detailed description of the Fat Man plutonium bomb design, details on the explosive lens in the Fat Man design, details on the neutron initiator of the Fat Man design, early discussions about the feasibility of a fusion bomb and a huge amount of data gleaned from the results of physical measurements of uranium and plutonium.

 

Theodore Hall an american physicist was privy to details of the Fat Man design and passed them to the Soviets.

 

A guy called George Koval passed on some details of the neutron initiator of the Fat Man bomb to the Soviets. 

 

Alan Nunn May passed samples of uranium 235 and uranium 233 to the Soviets and may have passed some information on reactor design as well.

 

David Greenglass was a machinist working at Los Alamos and was recruited into the Rosenberg spy ring by his sister, Ethel Rosenberg. Greenglass worked in shop manufacturing the explosive lens for the Fat Man bomb and provided very rough sketches of them to the Soviets. Rudolf Abel was the Soviet master spy in America during the Cold War. He operated under the name of William Fischer. He entered the United States in 1948 and set up an effective ring of agents. His primary assignment was nuclear weapons. He worked with both the Cohens and the Rosenbergs.

 

None of the above were recruited by the Soviets but contacted Soviet intelligence agents through their own volition and because of their ideological convictions. The Manhattan Project to develop the first atomic bomb during World War II was among the most highly classified and tightly secured programs ever undertaken by the U.S. government. Nevertheless, it generated more than 1,500 leak investigations involving unauthorized disclosures of classified Project information.

 

There were sporadic inconsequential rumours that made it to the public but overall the public was kept in the dark, except once. Here is a link that describes a serious leak: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/09/20/worst-manhattan-project-leaks/

 

Actually there was enough information available to the public prewar on how an atomic bomb would work that a science fiction writer earned a visit from the FBI after he published a short story in a science fiction magazine, Astounding Science Fiction, describing the bomb in 1944. The author had already figured figured out there was secret project taking place in Los Alamos because so many of the magazine subscribers had changed their mailing address to Los Alamos: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadline_(science_fiction_story)

 

[Realist Guy In The Room]

2 hours ago, Line-X said:

Nope - complete internet fallacy.

 

A lot of informal sharing of information went on between British and American scientists and the Canadians and Belgians government was also privy. The Manhattan Project was a cross between an academic research project and a top secret military project. The scientists were apt to share ideas and results with other scientists without too much regard for security protocols. General Lesley R. Groves did his best to run the Manhattan Project with appropriate military security but with mixed success. Some Manhattan Project scientists had dubious backgrounds, with leftist sympathies all the way up to Communist Party membership, or even worse for America, were foreigners with leftist sympathies. Groves tried to freeze out British participation in the Manhattan Project, in spite of an agreement struck by FDR and Churchill. Groves was mostly successful in limiting information and British participation until 1943 when British complaints reached higher levels. Groves was forced to accept a British delegation at Los Alamos.

 

The Soviet Union was an ally, of course, but not as close as an ally as Britain. The USSR had spies in the scientific team at Los Alamos, in the engineering teams in OakRidge, and in the theoretical and atomic energy teams around America. Of the atomic spies, amusingly a geezer called Fuchs, a German emigré physicist who came to the Manhattan Project by way of Britain and worked at Los Alamos did the most damage. He passed details of the gaseous diffusion method for uranium isotope separation, a detailed description of the Fat Man plutonium bomb design, details on the explosive lens in the Fat Man design, details on the neutron initiator of the Fat Man design, early discussions about the feasibility of a fusion bomb and a huge amount of data gleaned from the results of physical measurements of uranium and plutonium.

 

Theodore Hall an american physicist was privy to details of the Fat Man design and passed them to the Soviets.

 

A guy called George Koval passed on some details of the neutron initiator of the Fat Man bomb to the Soviets. 

 

Alan Nunn May passed samples of uranium 235 and uranium 233 to the Soviets and may have passed some information on reactor design as well.

 

David Greenglass was a machinist working at Los Alamos and was recruited into the Rosenberg spy ring by his sister, Ethel Rosenberg. Greenglass worked in shop manufacturing the explosive lens for the Fat Man bomb and provided very rough sketches of them to the Soviets. Rudolf Abel was the Soviet master spy in America during the Cold War. He operated under the name of William Fischer. He entered the United States in 1948 and set up an effective ring of agents. His primary assignment was nuclear weapons. He worked with both the Cohens and the Rosenbergs.

 

None of the above were recruited by the Soviets but contacted Soviet intelligence agents through their own volition and because of their ideological convictions. The Manhattan Project to develop the first atomic bomb during World War II was among the most highly classified and tightly secured programs ever undertaken by the U.S. government. Nevertheless, it generated more than 1,500 leak investigations involving unauthorized disclosures of classified Project information.

 

There were sporadic inconsequential rumours that made it to the public but overall the public was kept in the dark, except once. Here is a link that describes a serious leak: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2013/09/20/worst-manhattan-project-leaks/

 

Actually there was enough information available to the public prewar on how an atomic bomb would work that a science fiction writer earned a visit from the FBI after he published a short story in a science fiction magazine, Astounding Science Fiction, describing the bomb in 1944. The author had already figured figured out there was secret project taking place in Los Alamos because so many of the magazine subscribers had changed their mailing address to Los Alamos: 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deadline_(science_fiction_story)

 

A ‘no’ would have done.

[SpacedX]

12 minutes ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

A ‘no’ would have done.

Sorry, I find it that interesting, I've read three books on it. 

[The Doctor]

23 hours ago, Magictv said:

Just leaving this here...

 

 

They're writing as cumulative but the draws aren't. Probability of all avoiding each other was 22.85% for the quarters draw, 61.54% for the fifth round draw, 69.41% for the fourth round draw, 77.35% for the third round, 41.03% for the fifth round last year, 56.56% for the fourth round last year, and 77.35% is fixed for the third round because they enter at that stage. Yes, that combines to 1.35%, but for each individual draw it's typically more likely for them to avoid each other than to draw each other