Stoke post match 1-1

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

I said it earlier but Gray's completely ineffective display as a number 10 cost us today. 

 

I'm still underwhelmed by James but he was played next to Wilf with a clear instruction just to sit and sit he did. Gray was supposed to link play, move between the lines and generally give us overloads in a multitude of positions. He utterly failed (not for the first time) to do this. This left us constantly going wide and crossing to pretty much no one. This also left our very static central midfield completely overwhelmed by a bang average Stoke side and with no one central to pass to. Quite why we persevered with Gray and that system for as long as we did is an utter mystery.

I thought Gray did a lot of hiding today. not easy through the centre today granted as their whole idea was to strangle the last 40 yards through the centre, but Diabate's was effort and willingness to get involved showed him up.

 

He and Chilwell are really lacking at the moment considering the hype around them.

[filbertway]

Most impressive forcing of an own goal I've ever seen. A sliced cross that the keeper didn't expect of a premier league player. Class.

[vanity]

5 hours ago, Webbo said:

Well, with a bit of luck we might have won that but it would only be papering over the cracks. This slow build up, possession game is so predictable and easy to defend against. You can forget top 7 we'll be lucky to stay in the top 10.

I think it can be effective for us if we have the right personnel on the field. But when we have no attacking threat from the middle of the pitch, and our only creativity comes from the right wing, it is simple for Stoke to shade Mahrez. We are choosing not to field a balanced attack, much like the majority of last season. We need a threat in the middle of the field, someone who demands attention when he attacks head on, and who is an accurate passer who makes good decisions with the ball at his feet. We bought Silva, he can do precisely that, he can force the defense to spread out and take the heat off Mahrez. If we have Diabate, Mahrez, and Silva on the field at once, we suddenly have players who can make things happen, players who can get the ball to teammates in dangerous parts of the pitch.

 

I appreciate the need to be more defensive at times, but when playing a bottom-3 team like Stoke, Puel needs to sack up and field a side to win the game 3-1, not 1-0.

[oadby.fox]

So many players were off the pace but much of the blame does have to sit with Puel on this one.

 

James has never really cut the mustard since moving up to the prem, how many chances does he need? He was outclassed at Fleetwood and has played poorly overall in the premier league, at times today I was actually wishing we had Kingy on the pitch instead of him as I actually feel he offers a bit more. Having said that, Silva (winner with Portugal at the Euros) and Iborra (formerly captained Sevilla and won 3 Europa leagues) are sitting on the bench not getting a look in.

 

Some people saying James has become a bit of a scapegoat and yes other players didn't exactly cover themselves in glory but it's frustrating because we know we have two quality alternatives in Iborra/Silva - with the former scoring in the corresponding fixture a few months back.  

[vanity]

11 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Absolute poppycock.

 

The game they had like two half chances? Yeah he was awful 

 

If Wes was in against Everton he'd have closed their players down and they wouldn't have scored. And City wouldn't have walked through us and scored 5... something they've never done with Wes in the team. We can all spew bollocks.

Cool, we disagree. 

[Monsell1976]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Because we put the ball inthe right areas and forced mistakes thanks to the fact we were on top and exerted more pressure. 

 

It's not like they kicked it in the goal unpressured from 40 yards is it. 

Very poor goalkeeping, yes the ball in the right area, but nobody really near it if I remember right, so if it wasn’t for an horrendous error, most keepers would simply have caught it.

[Alf Bentley]

2 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I thought Gray did a lot of hiding today. not easy through the centre today granted as their whole idea was to strangle the last 40 yards through the centre, but Diabate's was effort and willingness to get involved showed him up.

 

He and Chilwell are really lacking at the moment considering the hype around them.

 

Yep. Gray wasn't great, but I'd mainly blame Puel for that today. It was the wrong match in which to play him in an unfamiliar position. 

 

He's not used to that central role, so playing him there against a defensively-oriented, physical side focused on closing players down was surely the wrong time for such an experiment?

Surely Silva would have been a better choice in that role? He's good at manoeuvring in tight spaces and must have experience of coping with tight pressing, physical opponents?

I wonder if Silva's carrying a knock or something? Strange that he didn't even come on as third sub.

[vanity]

Just now, oadby.fox said:

So many players were off the pace but much of the blame does have to sit with Puel on this one.

 

James has never really cut the mustard since moving up to the prem, how many chances does he need? He was outclassed at Fleetwood and has played poorly overall in the premier league, at times today I was actually wishing we had Kingy on the pitch instead of him as I actually feel he offers a bit more. Having said that, Silva (winner with Portugal at the Euros) and Iborra (formerly captained Sevilla and won 3 Europa leagues) are sitting on the bench not getting a look in.

 

Some people saying has become a bit of a scapegoat and yes other players didn't exactly cover themselves in glory but it's frustrating because we know we have two quality alternatives in Iborra/Silva - with the former scoring in the corresponding fixture a few months back.  

King would've been a better choice today, almost certainly. We fielded a 1-dimensional side, we had no balance to our attack, we ignored the middle unless we were crossing in to it, and we made it incredibly easy to scheme to stop our attack. Puel, wake the F up and realize that we need players who are a threat to create at more than one position. Diabate can create. Silva can create. Iborra can create. The first 70 minutes, our entire gameplan was "pass it to Mahrez, see if he makes something happen." Puel fielded an exceedingly defensive side and was playing to win 1-0, but if we field the right personnel today, we score in the 1H and win 3-1, 4-1, something like that. FFS, we should've won anyhow despite the Ndidi brainfart backheel. Get it together Claude. 

[HankMarvin]

Who's Schmeichel  gonna blame next week for his shit distribution?

[Free Falling Foxes]

4 minutes ago, Gerbold said:

But the shots which were close to being goals came almost overwhelmingly from the period after the substitutions.

Indeed - you spotted the chink in my argument, though I think the overall point still stands.

Edited 24 February 2018 by Free Falling Foxes

[Nigel Graham Pearson]

2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

Who's Schmeichel  gonna blame next week for his shit distribution?

The royal blue of a packet of cheese and onion in the crowd. 

[Bluetintedspecs]

10 minutes ago, Monsell1976 said:

Very poor goalkeeping, yes the ball in the right area, but nobody really near it if I remember right, so if it wasn’t for an horrendous error, most keepers would simply have caught it.

Disagree the ball was rifled in at pace and caught him by surprise!

[fleckneymike]

13 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I thought Gray did a lot of hiding today. not easy through the centre today granted as their whole idea was to strangle the last 40 yards through the centre, but Diabate's was effort and willingness to get involved showed him up.

 

He and Chilwell are really lacking at the moment considering the hype around them.

Chilwell reminds me more and more of Joe Mattock.

 

Gray continues to underwhelm. Even out wide he can be ineffective. What baffled today was why we persevered with a system and a player that so clearly wasn't working.

 

 

[Col city fan]

24 minutes ago, fleckneymike said:

I said it earlier but Gray's completely ineffective display as a number 10 cost us today. 

 

I'm still underwhelmed by James but he was played next to Wilf with a clear instruction just to sit and sit he did. Gray was supposed to link play, move between the lines and generally give us overloads in a multitude of positions. He utterly failed (not for the first time) to do this. This left us constantly going wide and crossing to pretty much no one. This also left our very static central midfield completely overwhelmed by a bang average Stoke side and with no one central to pass to. Quite why we persevered with Gray and that system for as long as we did is an utter mystery.

Gray so often flatters to deceive. We kinda know there is a good player in there somewhere, but he is ineffective too often really. 

He has age on his side, but I thought he’d be putting in more commanding performances than he is doing.

[fleckneymike]

Just now, Col city fan said:

Gray so often flatters to deceive. We kinda know there is a good player in there somewhere, but he is ineffective too often really. 

He has age on his side, but I thought he’d be putting in more commanding performances than he is doing.

I don't even think there's a good player in there.

[Monsell1976]

Just now, Bluetintedspecs said:

Disagree the ball was rifled in at pace and caught him by surprise!

Yes it was, but lambert has stated it was an error, and his the best keeper in Britain and expect mistakes every now and then, and for a player at this level, and a international, it should have been a routine save.

[vanity]

8 minutes ago, oadby.fox said:

So many players were off the pace but much of the blame does have to sit with Puel on this one.

 

James has never really cut the mustard since moving up to the prem, how many chances does he need? He was outclassed at Fleetwood and has played poorly overall in the premier league, at times today I was actually wishing we had Kingy on the pitch instead of him as I actually feel he offers a bit more. Having said that, Silva (winner with Portugal at the Euros) and Iborra (formerly captained Sevilla and won 3 Europa leagues) are sitting on the bench not getting a look in.

 

Some people saying James has become a bit of a scapegoat and yes other players didn't exactly cover themselves in glory but it's frustrating because we know we have two quality alternatives in Iborra/Silva - with the former scoring in the corresponding fixture a few months back.  

I don't think James is poor, I think he is Prem-level, but he is undoubtedly limited. He is not going to take the ball from a CB and go forward to attack. He is going to defend and then hand the ball off to someone else to take fwd. With Gray almost wholly absent today, we needed pressure in the middle to force the defense to stop doubling, tripling up on Riyad. Puel seems oblivious to the fact that certain players on his team lack ability with the ball at their feet. He ignored the fact that Silva was critical to beating MC's press, pulled him, and was seeming baffled as to why we suddenly couldn't get the ball out of our own half. Today he sat and watched for 70 minutes as we sat around outside the box and sent crosses in. Is that our game now? If so, why did we send Slim to Newcastle? What are we even trying to do when we get forward with that line-up? They didn't seem to have a clear idea re breaking down Stoke, their only answer was "get the ball to Riyad and hope". We have some excellent players, but we need to actually play them together.

 

Puel has been spot on at times, but lately he is doing a very poor job of understanding how his personnel choices are hurting our chances of winning games. He is growing overly conservative, and it is costing us points.

[Ralph]

Gray has proved he is not ready. Morgan proved he has had his day and James has little impact at this level. This is the reason why we are behind Burnley in the League. A few positive changes like Dragovic coming back and Iborra and Silva becoming regulars and 7th place is ours. Quite simple really!

[dannythefox]

Rubbish and one thing that starting to annoy me is with a little more quality we could be very close to Arsenal. Anyway Puel got it wrong from the start today should of had 3 in the middle with no gray the lads a winger play him there if not don’t bother. Iborra needs to be in there or Silva and as for kasper beaten again on the side hes stood on is not good enough, and his distribution has been well below par in the last 3/4 games.

[5waller5]

5 hours ago, peach0000 said:

Albrighton had a decent game, simpson and morgan did nothing wrong neither did James. Players like Mahrez and gray were far worse but everyone just hates on the same people regardless of performance. 

 

I really wonder if I watched the same game.

[chicagofox]

54 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Because we put the ball inthe right areas and forced mistakes thanks to the fact we were on top and exerted more pressure. 

 

It's not like they kicked it in the goal unpressured from 40 yards is it. 

A cross straight to the keeper is a poor cross. Whether the keeper catches it, knocks it into the net, juggles it, turns around and let’s it smack him on the arse, it’s still a poor cross.

[Ansteyblue]

16 minutes ago, 5waller5 said:

 

I really wonder if I watched the same game.

Thought mahrez played pretty decent today didn't rate grey that much but then nobody stood out today poor performance all round 

[5waller5]

1 minute ago, Ansteyblue said:

Thought mahrez played pretty decent today didn't rate grey that much but then nobody stood out today poor performance all round 

Agree - Mahrez was our only hope. Gray poor, Simpson and Morgan V poor, Albrighton a lot of effort little quality, James pedestrian.

[Corky]

Thought the referee was poor today, and usually Michael Oliver is a good choice. Too fussy in the first half, too lenient in the second. How Iheanacho didn't get a free-kick on the edge of the box when Adam wiped him out was beyond me.

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Babylon said:

World class? When exactly has he shown that for us YET? He's been bang average, has huge faults to his game just like the others. He's played a load of lower league teams and lost half the battles he's had.

 

Iborra and Silva potentially have more skill and more to offer. But they haven't shown the consistency or shown enough of it so far. James offers a bang average 6 or 7 most weeks. They offer flashes of 9 then a load of 2.

Agree,and I Like you have question Marks,over Immediate

Translation of Potential fromThese 2.Players.

Also funny enough Ndidi since new year,has been Well below expectation..

Unlike many I wont criticise Puel on His selections,Hes needing to find Out,what this inherited Squad have in them..

 

IMO we have a fairly Balanced Squad,with potential.

Puel has the 'right' to try Out the various permatations,He has a Potential group,but since

Hes been here,hes seen ,like ourselves the frustrating inconsistent Form and performances,

from all. It was obvious Silva will need more time,and while  Iborra,has looked good on occasions, he has  also had very avg performances.

 

We are 8th,and from the Players and the manager today,we actually heard their ambitions,

is the top 7 and really want to have a Go in the Cup....

 

Posters expecting easy Points,believing their own crank opinions,that this or that Team 

are so poor,we should only expect 3pts every time,Just feeds their own frustration.

We are at this Moment in our re-building Period nowhere near top 5,and the performances

to achieve that we haven't got it in us.

Ambition is ok ,expectation is OTT and arrogant,  Boardering on boring...

I was disapointed today,we were on top,but the Players,lacked Initiative..

Too many hang on to high expectation,from the players that are not selected,

or playing. 

Blaming Puel at this Stage is futile.No group of 5-6 Players have Stood Up,and

Made it difficult,for the Manager to Not make them Automatic choice...

Even on this Forum,opinions vary as much as the Points on the Richter scale.

Vardy is still scoring regularly,but some want to Drop him.

Our best Performance this 2018,has come from James Maguire and Drago.

This is IMO the Period,the Fans should support,and Just hold Back in irrate

criticism. Iborra and Silva might be the future,but they haven't actually Hit the

Hights yet...

 

 

 

Edited 24 February 2018 by fuchsntf