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the messenger

Puel

By the messenger, in Leicester City Forum

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Izzetwicked

Izzetwicked

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There's a bloke who's just won the Premier League title, having educated his team to play arguably the greatest football that the division has ever seen. Last season that same group of players - and it mostly was when you look at it - didn't win a trophy and finished 15 points behind the eventual champions. Fifteen.

 

Don't take this the wrong way - Manchester City have phenomenal resources and maybe the best manager in the world. The players who were there last season were already among the best in the world. But my point: it took them a lot of time to get used to a new manager's methods. Players get used to doing things a certain way, and when that changes it's such a huge culture shock. Expecting rapid success off the back of that isn't realistic. But wasn't it all worthwhile for them?

 

To not give Puel a summer would be criminal in my opinion. Sure, things have turned stale over the last few months but there were plenty of early encouragement signs and things could change immeasurably next season with the right players doing the right jobs. How much life could a bona fide right-wing-back breathe into our attack? (Just as Kyle Walker did in replacing Pablo Zabaleta, say.) How about a centre-back to complement Maguire, who can help start attacks from deep and change the dynamic? What if Chilwelll, now with plenty of games under his belt, comes back more mature and refined after the summer? Because he will eventually. What about a couple of all-action midfielders to spice things up a bit? We're being let down massively in the middle right now. 

 

Fuchs is not the future, nor the present. Wes, god love him, is arguably at the same stage. If we're being honest with ourselves, Mahrez probably won't be ours next year. Planning without them has to start somewhere, and it's no good doing it at the start of a new season. Players need coaching and educating earlier than that, whether they like it or not. 

 

TL;DR – give it a proper chance, for Christ's sake. 

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Foxxed

Foxxed

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A few wins and the players and fans will be (again) behind him. If our bad run is down to having tactically unsuitable yet unbenchable players in defence then let's wait until next season. If we're still poor at that point then get rid. Anyone wanting to get rid of a new manager who has us safe in the Premier League has a very short memory of our history.

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Foxxed

Foxxed

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What annoys me is that most of our fans know it took years of hard work to get us into the Premier League. Yet many refuse to give a manager who has took us to the top half of the Premier League even one season.

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chapero82

chapero82

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15 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

What annoys me is that most of our fans know it took years of hard work to get us into the Premier League. Yet many refuse to give a manager who has took us to the top half of the Premier League even one season.

He has had 8 games off a season though? And it’s going downhill fast!

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brucey

brucey

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15 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Screenshot_20180425-164059.png

You could have got 66/1 for Puel a few weeks ago. Not sure there's much value at the current price, if we lose all our remaining games we might get rid in the summer but that doesn't count for betting market settlement, has to be before final KO.

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RumbleFox

RumbleFox

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On 16/04/2018 at 08:39, Ricey said:

My biggest concern is that the players clearly haven't entirely bought into him. I think they like that he's adapting them, but they aren't buying into him as a manager in general. It's pretty evident that Puel's messages aren't getting through...and before anyone comes back with "player power" or the "old guard", this is an issue even with the newer players.

 

He talks the talk. After every match he hits the nail on the head and his interview with Hoddle was excellent in regards to mapping out our evolution, but if I was the manager I would say those things, doesn't mean I could successfully implement them. After almost every match over the last few weeks he has spoken about his frustration at our lack of intensity and tempo from the start. This baffles me. Starting games on the front foot with a high tempo is what this squad is all about. It's been a staple of our play for years and the squad has been built with that in mind. Yet for some reason he can't get something out of this team that should come natural to them.

 

Last season the Southampton players weren't keen on his regime and it appears to be the same story here. What makes people believe that a few new signings is going to change that?

 

Also what makes people believe that a busy summer is going to solve all of our woes? It's been very difficult for us to do business in the last few windows and we've often had to do business late or not at all. Of those players that do make it in, a decent chunk have proven not to be up to it. What makes people believe that this summer will be any different?

 

If the owners have these doubts as well, I hope they act now, rather than have a repeat of the Shakespeare situation where we will find ourselves trying to find a new manager early in the season, when few are available and when they don't have a pre-season to work with the team.

Good reasoned post in which, though I think we disagree on the general gist of things re. Puel, you make some good points.  All I would say is that I think people who are on the "defending Puel" side of things are probably looking at his career as a whole which has been pretty successful rather than just last season where, despite unconfirmed rumours of player dissatisfaction he still finished well and had a good cup run with a squad which has proved itself to be lacking this year.

 

Anyway, I hope we give him time and I hope he comes good.  We'll see.  X

Edited by RumbleFox
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Fox1norfolk

Fox1norfolk

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On 16/04/2018 at 08:39, Ricey said:

My biggest concern is that the players clearly haven't entirely bought into him. I think they like that he's adapting them, but they aren't buying into him as a manager in general. It's pretty evident that Puel's messages aren't getting through...and before anyone comes back with "player power" or the "old guard", this is an issue even with the newer players.

 

He talks the talk. After every match he hits the nail on the head and his interview with Hoddle was excellent in regards to mapping out our evolution, but if I was the manager I would say those things, doesn't mean I could successfully implement them. After almost every match over the last few weeks he has spoken about his frustration at our lack of intensity and tempo from the start. This baffles me. Starting games on the front foot with a high tempo is what this squad is all about. It's been a staple of our play for years and the squad has been built with that in mind. Yet for some reason he can't get something out of this team that should come natural to them.

 

Last season the Southampton players weren't keen on his regime and it appears to be the same story here. What makes people believe that a few new signings is going to change that?

 

Also what makes people believe that a busy summer is going to solve all of our woes? It's been very difficult for us to do business in the last few windows and we've often had to do business late or not at all. Of those players that do make it in, a decent chunk have proven not to be up to it. What makes people believe that this summer will be any different?

 

If the owners have these doubts as well, I hope they act now, rather than have a repeat of the Shakespeare situation where we will find ourselves trying to find a new manager early in the season, when few are available and when they don't have a pre-season to work with the team.

When Puel is asking for more time, patience even he must suspect with his inside knowledge his time maybe up. The owners have tasted glory by winning the Premier League and its only natural they would like another crack, or at least get into European contention, top six finish, not a mid table side.

 

To win just 2 times out of the last 10 games against teams mostly from the lower end of the table isn't good enough. He obviously a very competent manager, but lacks those inspirational ideas and a magnet for the best talent available. The replacement choice is very limited, but I suspect our owners have already lined up a replacement, and that could be as usual a BIG surprise ! Benitez ???

 

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Albert

Albert

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26 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

He will build us its what he does he can attract players like ben arfa and pereira to our club we NEED to keep him.

Fat wages, playboy contracts and the bright lights of the Premier league attract players, not so much the managers!

 

U think Silva & Iborra left Champion league teams because of Craig Shakespeare?!?! 

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Albert

Albert

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30 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

its him or james i dont think maddison can cut it at this level as a number 10

Ben Arfa or James?!?! How can that even be a choice? They play in different positions & are completely different types of players?!?

 

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1972 Fox

1972 Fox

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50 minutes ago, weller54 said:

Do we really want Ben Arfa?? 

 

49 minutes ago, Fightforever said:

its him or james i dont think maddison can cut it at this level as a number 10

 

14 minutes ago, Albert said:

Ben Arfa or James?!?! How can that even be a choice? They play in different positions & are completely different types of players?!?

 

I can only assume that @Fightforever is referring to James Maddison.

 

FWIW, I really rate Maddison and would like to see us sign him.

Edited by Blue Fox 72
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Stadt

Stadt

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Managers don't "attract" players, it's a poor argument. Do you think it was Pearson (even as a huge fan of his) the attracted Cambiasso or was it the wages and the premiere league? Do you think it was Sam Allardyce that "attracted" Jay-Jay Okacha? Players move for the money or to a better club, the manager is a minor consideration.

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st albans fox

st albans fox

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8 hours ago, Albert said:

Fat wages, playboy contracts and the bright lights of the Premier league attract players, not so much the managers!

 

U think Silva & Iborra left Champion league teams because of Craig Shakespeare?!?! 

obviously but I recall mr Kante didn’t put pen to paper until Claudio was appointed - he was on record as pretty much saying he didn’t know where leicester was or who Pearson was.

 

if a player has a similar choice of contract then the location and manager must play some  part in the final decision. 

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1972 Fox

1972 Fox

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7 hours ago, Albert said:

My bad!! I’m pretty sure the club have better targets to pursue rather than having to choose between either Maddison or Ben Arfa!!

Depends what you class as better targets? E.g. An Inler, Mendy, Musa, or a Slimani type signing? Or a Vardy, Mahrez, Kante, Ndidi or Maguire?

 

It's always an uncertainty as to whether they turn out to be good or bad.

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brucey

brucey

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Maguire is on record as saying he basically signed because of Shakespeare. Sure he also signed for higher wages and guaranteed game time, but he would have had interest from other clubs that could offer the same. Not a stretch to suggest that the current manager plays an important role if a player feels that their philosophy fits his own.

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indierich06

indierich06

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On 16/04/2018 at 14:06, Izzetwicked said:

There's a bloke who's just won the Premier League title, having educated his team to play arguably the greatest football that the division has ever seen. Last season that same group of players - and it mostly was when you look at it - didn't win a trophy and finished 15 points behind the eventual champions. Fifteen.

 

Don't take this the wrong way - Manchester City have phenomenal resources and maybe the best manager in the world. The players who were there last season were already among the best in the world. But my point: it took them a lot of time to get used to a new manager's methods. Players get used to doing things a certain way, and when that changes it's such a huge culture shock. Expecting rapid success off the back of that isn't realistic. But wasn't it all worthwhile for them?

 

To not give Puel a summer would be criminal in my opinion. Sure, things have turned stale over the last few months but there were plenty of early encouragement signs and things could change immeasurably next season with the right players doing the right jobs. How much life could a bona fide right-wing-back breathe into our attack? (Just as Kyle Walker did in replacing Pablo Zabaleta, say.) How about a centre-back to complement Maguire, who can help start attacks from deep and change the dynamic? What if Chilwelll, now with plenty of games under his belt, comes back more mature and refined after the summer? Because he will eventually. What about a couple of all-action midfielders to spice things up a bit? We're being let down massively in the middle right now. 

 

Fuchs is not the future, nor the present. Wes, god love him, is arguably at the same stage. If we're being honest with ourselves, Mahrez probably won't be ours next year. Planning without them has to start somewhere, and it's no good doing it at the start of a new season. Players need coaching and educating earlier than that, whether they like it or not. 

 

TL;DR – give it a proper chance, for Christ's sake. 

I think the fans could get on board if they could envisage the end goal that Puel has in mind, but he doesn't seem to have any defining philosophy about how football should be played, or a system that he's working towards. With Guardiola, you *knew* what he was trying to do and what he was aiming for, same with Klopp at Liverpool. What's the end goal with Puel? Sometimes I think he doesn't even know himself. It's not like we can really look back at great teams he has built in the past and point to them for inspiration.

 

There just doesn't seem to be any direction or any discernible style or goal that we're striving for - couple that with a lack of progress/team generally regressing and some really poor results and performances, and it's no wonder that some fans are starting to get annoyed. 

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