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stripeyfox

Tommy Robinson

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 06/07/2018 at 22:57, lifted*fox said:

https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/justice-tommy-robinson-protest-cancelled-14868576

 

ahhhhaha, they've cancelled their Free Tommy march so they can watch the football instead.

 

lol

In reality it's the same with the Football Lads Nonsense. They march on international weekends when there's no football on. So their opinion is pretty much 'football first, arguing about free speech second'

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pro-trump, pro-brexit, free tommy. 

 

quite the difference in 'protest'.

 

ugly and typifies everything wrong with this enabled, empowered section of hateful society that has grown since the referendum. 

 

we'll look back and people like this will be on the wrong side of history. 

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

Look I know you hate brexit but don’t go fùcking putting my view with this bunch of scumbags please. I don’t call you an anti Semite for voting in the same way some of them do, I know we like to wind each other up on here but it’s crossing a line if you link us with actual thuggery that we all oppose.

You mean the "pro-trump, pro-brexit, free tommy" bit?  Isn't that what the march was about?  If you're alarmed that you share views with people like that then fair enough but nobody's lumping you in with them unless I'm missing something...

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12 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

You mean the "pro-trump, pro-brexit, free tommy" bit?  Isn't that what the march was about?  If you're alarmed that you share views with people like that then fair enough but nobody's lumping you in with them unless I'm missing something...

Yeah but no but... I'm with Strokes to be honest. Lifted was being a bit mischievous. Just because x supports y doesn't mean that y is x. It's unfair and it also does to the remain cause that I personally support. 

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2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

 

It’s this specific bit that gripes me Carl and Daz. I haven’t empowered or endorsed them since the vote, I don’t stand with them, I stand firmly against racism and thuggish behaviour. I don’t think linking it to the referendum is helpful nor true, we have had EDL marches and similar for decades but it’s the social media presence that has empowered and emboldened them.

How can you expect us to stand with you against it, if you are so quick to tarnish us as partially responsible?

Just because I disagree with uncontrolled migration does not mean I hate foreigners or brown people, it could not be further from the truth,

 

It's an (darkly) interesting one, really; I saw with my own eyes how the election of Trump - as well as the social media presence associated with such - empowered and embolded white supremacist movements over in the US, and as such I'm not sure those who voted for him can entirely wash their hands of those particular consequences (even though I'm sure most probably aren't overt racists or misogynists themselves). It was clear, very clear indeed, as to what Trump and his administration intended before they took office wrt attitudes towards women and minorities.

 

I think Brexit is a reasonable bit more nuanced, however; the ambiguity about what it "means" and what people wanted from it (ask five different people and often you'll get ten answers) means that you can't really draw a similar link IMO, though I imagine others think differently. There are some folks who are using it as an excuse to be separatist/nationalist/whatever and as such I don't think you can pin it all on the rise of social media, but at the same time you can't pin those acts on the back of every Brexit voter.

 

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Guest MattP

I still don't get what part of pleading guilty people don't understand.

 

He was warned, carried on, pled guilty and then sentenced. It's mental there is a movement to try and portray it as a miscarriage of justice.

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Guest MattP
6 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

It's an (darkly) interesting one, really; I saw with my own eyes how the election of Trump - as well as the social media presence associated with such - empowered and embolded white supremacist movements over in the US, and as such I'm not sure those who voted for him can entirely wash their hands of those particular consequences.

It's very interesting. 

 

I come at it from a totally different angle, I see the those who now enforce policy that discriminates against groups like white people (systematic in parts of the public sector and our universities despite poor white boys now being the most underrepresented) as the ones who have emboldened these movements, guys like Trump are the consequence for me, not the cause. 

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6 minutes ago, MattP said:

It's very interesting. 

 

I come at it from a totally different angle, I see the those who now enforce policy that discriminates against groups like white people (systematic in parts of the public sector and our universities despite poor white boys now being the most underrepresented) as the ones who have emboldened these movements, guys like Trump are the consequence for me, not the cause. 

If we're going down that road then you could look back further and say that those policies that do discriminate against white men (if indeed they do) are simply a consequence of almost all of recorded societal history being dominated by that demographic (though of course material wealth is a massive factor too, it's not like poor white guys could vote for the longest time either) and the high station that it has (almost always) held in developed societies.

 

Many of the folks that follow Trump simply yearn for a restoration of the old order rather than seeking to balance the scales.

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Guest MattP
12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

If we're going down that road then you could look back further and say that those policies that do discriminate against white men (if indeed they do) are simply a consequence of almost all of recorded societal history being dominated by that demographic (though of course material wealth is a massive factor too, it's not like poor white guys could vote for the longest time either) and the high station that it has (almost always) held in developed societies.

 

Many of the folks that follow Trump simply yearn for a restoration of the old order rather than seeking to balance the scales.

You can understand it though surely? I mean a working class white kid who is struggling has to sit there and watch wealthier kids of other ethnicities get special privilege because of history, rightly or wrongly they probably don't care, especially when they are currently at the bottom of the chain.

 

Peston on Sunday advertised last week for an intern that was BAME exclusive - just imagine being a white kid from St Matthews brought up by a single mother on benefits, broken home etc managing to get through it all, getting into uni and getting a first in something like politics, then applying and being told you can't have the job because of your skin colour and it goes to a black kids whose parents sent him to Harrow or Eton.

 

If they want to "rebalance" all this it let the bourgeois who support the policies do it, give up their own jobs and wealth instead of forcing it upon others, who are in the main far worse off than they are.

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1 hour ago, bovril said:

Yeah but no but... I'm with Strokes to be honest. Lifted was being a bit mischievous. Just because x supports y doesn't mean that y is x. It's unfair and it also does to the remain cause that I personally support. 

Image result for well there's a surprise gif

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14 minutes ago, MattP said:

You can understand it though surely? I mean a working class white kid who is struggling has to sit there and watch wealthier kids of other ethnicities get special privilege because of history, rightly or wrongly they probably don't care, especially when they are currently at the bottom of the chain.

 

Peston on Sunday advertised last week for an intern that was BAME exclusive - just imagine being a white kid from St Matthews brought up by a single mother on benefits, broken home etc managing to get through it all, getting into uni and getting a first in something like politics, then applying and being told you can't have the job because of your skin colour and it goes to a black kids whose parents sent him to Harrow or Eton.

 

If they want to "rebalance" all this it let the bourgeois who support the policies do it, give up their own jobs and wealth instead of forcing it upon others, who are in the main far worse off than they are.

I understand it, but I certainly don't feel it's justified. Not when the vast majority of political figures, scientists, celebrated authors and artists and practically every figure influencing societal control in history were white men. There's no "rightly or wrongly" about that - history is clear on the matter. If they think their response against a newly unequal society is justified then they must think that the reaction from those of other demographics before to gain a better position themselves is also justified - anything else is hypocrisy.

 

The one leg to stand on is one you pointed out - "working class" - and tackling divides based on income and class is a big thing that needs to be worked on in the UK. However, in the US (which was my point of referral rather than the UK), though money is a factor, the main dividing line is still, by a significant amount, race.

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36 minutes ago, MattP said:

You can understand it though surely? I mean a working class white kid who is struggling has to sit there and watch wealthier kids of other ethnicities get special privilege because of history, rightly or wrongly they probably don't care, especially when they are currently at the bottom of the chain.

 

Peston on Sunday advertised last week for an intern that was BAME exclusive - just imagine being a white kid from St Matthews brought up by a single mother on benefits, broken home etc managing to get through it all, getting into uni and getting a first in something like politics, then applying and being told you can't have the job because of your skin colour and it goes to a black kids whose parents sent him to Harrow or Eton.

 

If they want to "rebalance" all this it let the bourgeois who support the policies do it, give up their own jobs and wealth instead of forcing it upon others, who are in the main far worse off than they are.

2

 

I completely agree with your wider point but I imagine black kids at Eton are rarer than rocking-horse shit.

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