Duckenfield, his day has come

[David Hankey]

After 29 long years the discredited and despicable former chief superintendent of South Yorkshie Police is finally to face a trial, hallelujah!!

 

I hope he and the rest of those in office at the time will be found guilty and serve the rest of their days incarserated.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

After 29 long years the discredited and despicable former chief superintendent of South Yorkshie Police is finally to face a trial, hallelujah!!

 

I hope he and the rest of those in office at the time will be found guilty and serve the rest of their days incarserated.

 

[Guest MattP]

Surely we all hope the jury comes to the correct decision? 

 

Very uncomfortable with this, clearly a tough decision under extreme pressure in a time very different to ours and he could go to prison for a long time for it? It smacks of vengeance rather than justice.

[David Hankey]

At the end of the day the Police Lead Command's actions on the day caused the deaths of 95 members of the public. It is only the prevarication of all involved not to have him tried that has caused this long wait. His Trial should have been held in 1990!! This is no defence nor justification for the length of time in bringing this action. Just imagine had 'Joe Bloggs' caused this amounts of deaths he'd had been incarserated decades ago.

23 minutes ago, MattP said:

Surely we all hope the jury comes to the correct decision? 

 

Very uncomfortable with this, clearly a tough decision under extreme pressure in a time very different to ours and he could go to prison for a long time for it? It smacks of vengeance rather than justice.

Not uncomforatbale at all. 'Duckintheissuefield' is the only one who be feeling uncomfortable.

[stripeyfox]

29 minutes ago, MattP said:

Surely we all hope the jury comes to the correct decision? 

 

Very uncomfortable with this, clearly a tough decision under extreme pressure in a time very different to ours and he could go to prison for a long time for it? It smacks of vengeance rather than justice.

Not uncomfortable at all. The guy was in a position of responsibility and his duty was to maintain order and safety at a large event. He was (by his own admission) inexperienced in this type of event but still failed to even read up on the safety plan or even visit the venue beforehand. When it all went to shit outside he made the call to open the gate, but failed to adequately prepare for the consequences of doing so. Even as people lay dying on the pitch, he then deliberately told a blatant lie that the fans had forced there way in.

 

He's lucky to have lasted this long without prosecution. Staggering that anyone could have much sympathy for the guy

 

 

[Guest MattP]

He made a decision under extreme pressure, going to prison for that to me seems absolutely absurd. 

 

Some fans did force their way in as well, that's beyond doubt. You can watch videos of them climbing over the turnstiles.

 

Shall we also prosecute the ambulance drivers late on the scene? Mob handed witchhunt.

[yorkie1999]

Just now, MattP said:

He made a decision under extreme pressure, going to prison for that to me seems absolutely absurd. 

 

Some fans did force their way in as well, that's beyond doubt. You can watch videos of them climbing over the turnstiles.

 

Shall we also prosecute the ambulance drivers late on the scene? Mob handed witchhunt.

That's my thoughts as well, okay he fvcked up, but who put him in that position in the first place or did he apply for the position. I'm sure i read he'd only been given the job 3 weeks earlier because the previous match commander, of many years experience, had been sacked.

[Guest MattP]

So important to mention this from the original inquest. 

 

"They also needed to be satisfied that this breach of duty caused the deaths and that it amounted to “gross negligence”. The jury reached their verdict of unlawful killing by a 7-2 majority."

 

In a court of law the inquest would NOT have resulted in a guilty verdict on the police.

 

How Duckenfield gets a fair trial is beyond me.

[Izzy]

An old article, but you could argue Sheffield Wednesday and the FA are also to blame. It was a disaster waiting to happen after previous near misses and just happened to be on Duckenfield's watch..

 

Charles Falconer QC, representing the Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG), has called on the director of public prosecutions to investigate charging Sheffield Wednesday, as well as South Yorkshire police, Sheffield city council and the Football Association, with corporate manslaughter.

"Because the risks were known but the club and FA went ahead anyway with hosting the semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest at Hillsborough, we want the DPP to examine whether their conduct amounts to gross negligence which could be the basis for a manslaughter charge," he said.

Sheffield Wednesday applied to host the semi-final, which 54,000 people attended, and semi-finals in 1981, 1987 and 1988, despite the club's safety certificate for Hillsborough not having been updated since 1979.

There was a serious crush in 1981 on the Leppings Lane terrace in which 38 people were injured. The police moved supporters out, they told the club's then chairman, Bert McGee, to avoid "a real chance of fatalities". Shockingly, the panel found in the minutes of a post-match meeting, McGee replied: "Bollocks – no one would have been killed."

Scraton then described how changes to the ground, principally building metal fences running up the Leppings Lane terrace to divide it into separate pens, made "a demonstrably unsafe terrace dangerous."

There were crushes and problems with the old, inadequate turnstiles in 1987 and 1988, after which one supporter wrote to the FA saying the Leppings Lane terrace "will always be a death trap".

Nevertheless, the FA invited Sheffield Wednesday to host the semi-final in 1989, without asking any questions about ground safety, and the club eagerly applied to do so.

[stripeyfox]

1 minute ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

An old article, but you could argue Sheffield Wednesday and the FA are also to blame. It was a disaster waiting to happen after previous near misses and just happened to be on Duckenfield's watch..

 

Charles Falconer QC, representing the Hillsborough Family Support Group (HFSG), has called on the director of public prosecutions to investigate charging Sheffield Wednesday, as well as South Yorkshire police, Sheffield city council and the Football Association, with corporate manslaughter.

"Because the risks were known but the club and FA went ahead anyway with hosting the semi-final between Liverpool and Nottingham Forest at Hillsborough, we want the DPP to examine whether their conduct amounts to gross negligence which could be the basis for a manslaughter charge," he said.

Sheffield Wednesday applied to host the semi-final, which 54,000 people attended, and semi-finals in 1981, 1987 and 1988, despite the club's safety certificate for Hillsborough not having been updated since 1979.

There was a serious crush in 1981 on the Leppings Lane terrace in which 38 people were injured. The police moved supporters out, they told the club's then chairman, Bert McGee, to avoid "a real chance of fatalities". Shockingly, the panel found in the minutes of a post-match meeting, McGee replied: "Bollocks – no one would have been killed."

Scraton then described how changes to the ground, principally building metal fences running up the Leppings Lane terrace to divide it into separate pens, made "a demonstrably unsafe terrace dangerous."

There were crushes and problems with the old, inadequate turnstiles in 1987 and 1988, after which one supporter wrote to the FA saying the Leppings Lane terrace "will always be a death trap".

Nevertheless, the FA invited Sheffield Wednesday to host the semi-final in 1989, without asking any questions about ground safety, and the club eagerly applied to do so.

 

I take the point izzy actually. In 1988 the same teams played each other in the semi final at HIllsborough and that passed off fine. The police that day had a cordon around the ground which had the effect of controlling the crowd. If everything had gone to plan in 1989 and the game had passed off without incident, I am sure it would only have been a matter of time before something happenned somewhere.

 

I'm not sure Duckenfield's incompetence amounts to manslaughter or not. But his conduct that day fell short of the level that the position demanded. And his decision to deliberately lie about his decision reflects very badly on him.

 

 

[leicsmac]

There are more people that should be held accountable for this than him - as Izzy said, the fault was systemic and composed of many circumstances.

 

However, for me, the key question is that did Duckenfield encourage the police present to alter their stories in order to place blame on the fans? If he did, that's the real thing he should carry the can for IMO.

[Sharpe's Fox]

Good. Someone needs to go down and I don’t care who. Not a fair trial? Tough luck don’t try and mess with the workers. It may be a hollow victory but it will become a symbolic one for the left. Then we move on to Orgreave, Iraq, Phone Hacking and Grenfell.

[David Hankey]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

He made a decision under extreme pressure, going to prison for that to me seems absolutely absurd. 

 

Some fans did force their way in as well, that's beyond doubt. You can watch videos of them climbing over the turnstiles.

 

Shall we also prosecute the ambulance drivers late on the scene? Mob handed witchhunt.

You wouldn't be saying that if you were connected to the victims. There is no good reason why he shouldn't have been in the dock years ago along with all the others who colluded in doctoring policeman's notebooks. To my mind this action is very long overdue.

[Parafox]

49 minutes ago, Sharpe's Fox said:

Good. Someone needs to go down and I don’t care who. Not a fair trial? Tough luck don’t try and mess with the workers. It may be a hollow victory but it will become a symbolic one for the left. Then we move on to Orgreave, Iraq, Phone Hacking and Grenfell.

"You don't care who"? Bizarre statement. so in your thinking, any innocent person could go to prison as long as "someone" does. Stupid and immature.

[Sharpe's Fox]

18 minutes ago, Parafox said:

"You don't care who"? Bizarre statement. so in your thinking, any innocent person could go to prison as long as "someone" does. Stupid and immature.

The symbolic arrest is more important than the individual crime someone may or may not have committed . You think the families or campaigners care about the merits of the case against someone? They don’t. People died and someone has to face the music I’m afraid. The more interesting dynamic for me is how it can be used politically in the other scandals and crises I mentioned.

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, David Hankey said:

You wouldn't be saying that if you were connected to the victims. There is no good reason why he shouldn't have been in the dock years ago along with all the others who colluded in doctoring policeman's notebooks. To my mind this action is very long overdue.

Course he wouldn't say that if he were connected to the victims, that's why impartial views are more important and that's why juries are selected from people who are not connected in any way to the crime.

[David Hankey]

The fact of the matter is Duckenfield was the most senior police officer on duty that ill-fated day back in 1989. Whether he panicked or not is neither here nor there. His professional responsibility and duty was to ensure the safety of the spectators something in which he abysmally failed. The loss of life was due entirely to his gross incompetence and it is only right and proper that he is called to account. It is not the fault of the bereaved families that this action has taken so long.

[yorkie1999]

58 minutes ago, David Hankey said:

The fact of the matter is Duckenfield was the most senior police officer on duty that ill-fated day back in 1989. Whether he panicked or not is neither here nor there. His professional responsibility and duty was to ensure the safety of the spectators something in which he abysmally failed. The loss of life was due entirely to his gross incompetence and it is only right and proper that he is called to account. It is not the fault of the bereaved families that this action has taken so long.

No one said it was, but don’t you think he should be allowed a trial before you hang him high, there might be a few revelations that come out that no one knows about such as his seniors protecting their own arses. Handshakes between the legs and all that.

[ScouseFox]

3 hours ago, Parafox said:

"You don't care who"? Bizarre statement. so in your thinking, any innocent person could go to prison as long as "someone" does. Stupid and immature.

they covered it up to try and blame the ****ing fans for killing each other. i couldn’t care if everyone in a slightly high profile role that die got sentence to death. they’re all absolute scum bags. 

 

as far as i see it it’s not got a lot to do with what went on on the day, it’s the fact that the absolute scum bags “in power” realised their mistakes and thought “ahh fu ck it we’ll blame it on the dead folk and the grieves”. 

 

absolutely unforgivable behaviour and i couldn’t care less if they all rotted in jail forever. 

[ScouseFox]

people don’t seem to get that the cover up that followed was absolutely outrageous. the people at fault “who made high pressure mistakes” didn’t just make high pressure mistakes, they made those mistakes and then in absolute cold blood blames the fu cking dead bodies that were in front of them. 

 

i hope they all rot in the biggest pit of a jail ever known to man. thatcher too. luckily she’s got half a face left and is in hell. th absolute cu nt. 

[ozleicester]

If found to act like a criminal 30 years ago, then prison and punishment is due.

 

 

[The Horse's Mouth]

It does kind of feel that he's just being pinned as the scapegoat 

[Guest MattP]

11 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

people don’t seem to get that the cover up that followed was absolutely outrageous. the people at fault “who made high pressure mistakes” didn’t just make high pressure mistakes, they made those mistakes and then in absolute cold blood blames the fu cking dead bodies that were in front of them. 

 

i hope they all rot in the biggest pit of a jail ever known to man. thatcher too. luckily she’s got half a face left and is in hell. th absolute cu nt. 

It was and those who were involved in that cover up should be punished, the cover up though was absolutely nothing to do with the events that occured for the disaster and what we are now talking about ie the potential manslaughter of people.

Two completely different things and I often feel people want to mix up the two to see someone swing.

Edited 30 June 2018 by MattP

[yorkie1999]

It'll go to trial and the main question to Duckenfield that will be used to convict him of manslaughter will be "why did you open gate C", because that's what he was responsible for and that's what caused the deaths, and his answer is going to be fairly obvious because as chief commander his job is to act and respond on information given. Cover-ups and all that kind of stuff has got nothing to do with Duckenfields trial for manslaughter

Edited 30 June 2018 by yorkie1999

[Izzy]

15 hours ago, David Hankey said:

The fact of the matter is Duckenfield was the most senior police officer on duty that ill-fated day back in 1989. Whether he panicked or not is neither here nor there. His professional responsibility and duty was to ensure the safety of the spectators something in which he abysmally failed. The loss of life was due entirely to his gross incompetence and it is only right and proper that he is called to account. It is not the fault of the bereaved families that this action has taken so long.

What about Sheff Wed, Sheff City Council & the FA? Were they not partly responsible for the loss of life too?

 

The ground didn't even have an up to date safety certificate FFS. 

 

Seems to me like Duckenfield is left carrying the can for everyone elses fvck up's along the way.