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Fox in the North

Harvey Barnes - West Brom (loan)

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11 minutes ago, richbaggie said:

Evening all

Baggies fan here. Been a few years since posted on here (Rivals days I think) but log in still work so thought I would give you a report on Harvey.

He showed in his first couple of games that he is a very talented lad. Great feet, can go either way and glides across the pitch. Ability to run at pace with the ball is a rare skill. I am old enough to remember Laurie Cunningham and whilst he isn't in that class yet, his attributes are similar. Of more recent Baggie players, he reminds me a lot of Jason Koumas.

Like Koumas, he's better when not restricted to being a winger. He doesn't do the dirty work well. He looked much down the middle against Forest 2nd half and has played as a 10 behind the front 2 last 2 games.

This is definitely his position. He was outstanding on Saturday.

It's early days but to me he looks like a real talent who will grow with us this year. Moore and new coach Graeme Jones seem intent on a passing attacking game. It will suit Harvey well.

It will be frustrating to hand him back but for now we will enjoy him whilst he is ours. He is a joy to watch.

Good luck this year .. hope you boing boing back to the Premier along with the Villa and Leeds. Proper clubs.

Sound encouraging from what you say and think its the way forward for clubs of our size … to develop young talent.

Hope messrs Skinner and Chiles enjoy watching  Harvey.

 

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10 minutes ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Good luck this year .. hope you boing boing back to the Premier along with the Villa and Leeds. Proper clubs.

Sound encouraging from what you say and think its the way forward for clubs of our size … to develop young talent.

Hope messrs Skinner and Chiles enjoy watching  Harvey.

 

Chiles is a potato.

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2 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

is it a crime to get excited about our young players? especially seeing them perform well at a level we were at only 5 years ago!

Yes. Young players are to be abused and written off before the age of 21.

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10 hours ago, JB_Fox said:

Apologies to piss on chips, but suggesting hat a ) Barnes is a Mahrez replacement or b) that he'll be immediately ready to step into a Europe-chasing Premier League team next season is delusional.

First of all, I'm not even sure we've tried to replace Mahrez directly because it's more or less impossible. Second, I don't even think we should have tried: Puel is clearly trying to build a more balanced team; one that isn't so reliant on a player with individual brilliance like him (and we really did rely on him and Vardy together). Maddison has changed the dynamics a lot already, and so have Chilwell/Pereira being given so much licence to get forward.

But Barnes: don't put too much expectation on him just yet - the Championship is so, so different. It's very easy to be swept away by great goals and ignore all-round performances. From what I heard, he was virtually anonymous on the opening day against Bolton before and after that screamer. It's not healthy to lay it all on him at this point. 

I think you must have missed the words 'long' and 'term'.

Regarding replacing Mahrez, we know we can't get another player with his ability, but we do have a right wing position to fill in his absence.  It seems like a big opportunity missed not to bring in real quality there.  Yes, it's great to have a good number 10 and right back but that doesn't mean we can't also have a top quality winger too.  We had the money but we chose to overpay for a fourth choice goalkeeper, bring in one too many centre halves and a ho hum winger that flopped at Monaco instead.

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13 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

is it a crime to get excited about our young players? especially seeing them perform well at a level we were at only 5 years ago!

 

11 hours ago, Lovejoy said:

Yes. Young players are to be abused and written off before the age of 21.

 

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On 20/08/2018 at 10:20, Simoken said:

We cant afford to replace him. Thats the reason

 

On 20/08/2018 at 10:29, Ric Flair said:

And how does that explain the decision to loan out Barnes if he's Mahrez's replacement?

I don't buy we can't afford to replace him, if there was a player of Mahrez's calibre available who was willing to come to us we'd go for him. Money isn't an issue, the words Puel used were likely to mean the quality of Mahrez isn't possible for us to replace as those players go to better clubs than us. We have to sign players with potential to try and reach that level again or players with a point to prove.

 

How many goals and assists does Mahrez have in the free scoring Mancs team? Is it as many as Maddison or Ricardo in our low level team?

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11 hours ago, murphy said:

I think you must have missed the words 'long' and 'term'.

Regarding replacing Mahrez, we know we can't get another player with his ability, but we do have a right wing position to fill in his absence.  It seems like a big opportunity missed not to bring in real quality there.  Yes, it's great to have a good number 10 and right back but that doesn't mean we can't also have a top quality winger too.  We had the money but we chose to overpay for a fourth choice goalkeeper, bring in one too many centre halves and a ho hum winger that flopped at Monaco instead.

The issue is, many of the top quality RM aren't great defensively and with how Ricardo bombs forward, we need a winger who is happy to sprint back regularly and defend, or even hold a more defensive position. And those who are defensive generally adds even more to the potential price tag.

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On 20/08/2018 at 09:29, Ric Flair said:

And how does that explain the decision to loan out Barnes if he's Mahrez's replacement?

I don't buy we can't afford to replace him, if there was a player of Mahrez's calibre available who was willing to come to us we'd go for him. Money isn't an issue, the words Puel used were likely to mean the quality of Mahrez isn't possible for us to replace as those players go to better clubs than us. We have to sign players with potential to try and reach that level again or players with a point to prove.

No, he meant the financial cost of finding a Mahrez replacement. theres no hidden meaning behind those words. Lets be frank, for LCFC to sign a mahrez (replacement) who scores 10+ goals + assiists a season in the Premier league.. you are talking serious money and i dont feel we are capable to risk such a buy considering were relitively new in the PL still and the threat of relegation still surrounds us at times.

I do agree with your last statement though, it has worked in the past and i think this is our recruitment strategy and will continue until we become a Man City type team.

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5 minutes ago, Simoken said:

No, he meant the financial cost of finding a Mahrez replacement. theres no hidden meaning behind those words. Lets be frank, for LCFC to sign a mahrez (replacement) who scores 10+ goals + assiists a season in the Premier league.. you are talking serious money and i dont feel we are capable to risk such a buy considering were relitively new in the PL still and the threat of relegation still surrounds us at times.

I do agree with your last statement though, it has worked in the past and i think this is our recruitment strategy and will continue until we become a Man City type team.

I know what you're saying but if Malcom would have come to us we'd have blown the £40-45m and likewise Leon Bailey. It's just nigh on impossible to get such talent to come to us, we have to scratch lower and turn them in to superstars.

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We need an additional creative player at no.10, to provide cover/competition to Maddison, and I really hope Barnes can be that player for us next season. Early signs are good but he needs a full season in the championship and has to continue to shine and develop.

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1 hour ago, UniFox21 said:

The issue is, many of the top quality RM aren't great defensively and with how Ricardo bombs forward, we need a winger who is happy to sprint back regularly and defend, or even hold a more defensive position. And those who are defensive generally adds even more to the potential price tag.

With Puel's formation, he asks the two sitting midfielders to cover the wing backs so that winger and wing back can overlap.   Mahrez was hardly great defensively.

If Ricardo is the answer as winger, I would be happy with that.  I'm not saying he's as good as Riyad of course but he offers something different.  He is more dynamic, direct and athletic than RM.  We could do with two Ricardos.

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13 hours ago, murphy said:

I think you must have missed the words 'long' and 'term'.

Regarding replacing Mahrez, we know we can't get another player with his ability, but we do have a right wing position to fill in his absence.  It seems like a big opportunity missed not to bring in real quality there.  Yes, it's great to have a good number 10 and right back but that doesn't mean we can't also have a top quality winger too.  We had the money but we chose to overpay for a fourth choice goalkeeper, bring in one too many centre halves and a ho hum winger that flopped at Monaco instead.

I think that's a bit of a narrow-minded view, though - the whole dynamic has changed with Pereira, so you wouldn't really be able to replace Mahrez in the same way anyway. One of the reasons Riyad was so good was because he had the incredibly cautious Simpson behind him. You'd never be able to get away with Pereira and another winger like Mahrez, because the former is such a weapon going forward. 

Also, not sure I agree with that ruling on centre-backs either. Yes, we've got six now and that's too many but Benalouane should barely be counted and Wes is almost definitely in his last year now. Soyuncu and Benkovic have clearly been brought in with the long-term in mind, so you might as well get them now so they're ready for us. There's also the matter of a three-man defence which could yet be tried in future properly - and you need the right bodies for that.

 

5 hours ago, foxpleasure said:

Just for clarity's sake are you saying that if next season we tried to use a 5'9" 21 year old number 10 who had been great in the championship for one year it is delusional to think he might be good enough to impress in our first team?

Appreciate this is tongue in cheek, and I want to clarify that I'm not saying he wouldn't be ready. It's just a lot to ask and expect at this stage. Maddison is clearly pretty special. 

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10 minutes ago, JB_Fox said:

I think that's a bit of a narrow-minded view, though - the whole dynamic has changed with Pereira, so you wouldn't really be able to replace Mahrez in the same way anyway. One of the reasons Riyad was so good was because he had the incredibly cautious Simpson behind him. You'd never be able to get away with Pereira and another winger like Mahrez, because the former is such a weapon going forward. 

Also, not sure I agree with that ruling on centre-backs either. Yes, we've got six now and that's too many but Benalouane should barely be counted and Wes is almost definitely in his last year now. Soyuncu and Benkovic have clearly been brought in with the long-term in mind, so you might as well get them now so they're ready for us. There's also the matter of a three-man defence which could yet be tried in future properly - and you need the right bodies for that.

 

Appreciate this is tongue in cheek, and I want to clarify that I'm not saying he wouldn't be ready. It's just a lot to ask and expect at this stage. Maddison is clearly pretty special. 

I thought that was the whole point.  We wanted an attacking full back to overlap with the winger, not to sit back, hence bringing in Ricardo and telling SImpson to find a new club.  Certainly we have that on the LH side with Chillwell bombing forward to support Gray.  The cover has to come from the 2 sitting centre mids, that's how you can play wing backs with a four man defence.

I'm not against bringing in the two highly rated young CBs plus Evans, it's just that I would have thought RW was the priority.

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On 21/08/2018 at 12:19, Foxxed said:

West Brom are playing Boro on Friday evening. Looking forward to watching him play. Hope he gets the goals and assists he deserved last Saturday.

Playing tonight and in the no10 role, he will probably have a shocker now:)

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End of the first half and Barnes has hardly had a touch in the number 10 role.

He does however get into some good positions but his team mates don’t have the quality to pick him out. Every time he does get the ball though he’s making the right decisions.

I’d like to see him drop a bit deeper to get a feel of the ball and help his team bypass Boro’s high press. Right now he’s playing more like a 2nd striker than a number 10 imo, which could be down to the managers instructions or his play style. 

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