Harvey Barnes - West Brom (loan)

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, themightyfin said:

There are no plans to bring him or Bencovic back this season. Baring a huge injury list they will stay where they are. 

Superb, really pleased with everything at our club 

[Foxxed]

The amount of space he gets in for his goal is incredible. He's playing as a left sided striker. But he's half way down the right side of the pitch during their break and has about half the pitch to himself.

[Ric Flair]

10 hours ago, Foxxed said:

The amount of space he gets in for his goal is incredible. He's playing as a left sided striker. But he's half way down the right side of the pitch during their break and has about half the pitch to himself.

Yeah and that's something that doesn't happen as much in the PL unless you are very good at counter attacking football, long gone are those days.

[Guest]

Doing good, some of the time, at WBA is NO indication he'll do good in the Prem or with us. 

[UniFox21]

6 minutes ago, FIF said:

Doing good, some of the time, at WBA is NO indication he'll do good in the Prem or with us. 

Of course, 2 very different leagues.

but the experience and how much he's developed all are hugely promising for us. Many good championship failed to make the step up

[Guest]

1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Of course, 2 very different leagues.

but the experience and how much he's developed all are hugely promising for us. Many good championship failed to make the step up

 

I like him but I really think a lot of FTers are in cuckoo land calling for his return and expecting him to "dominate" in the prem. A recall in January could knock him back years.

[UniFox21]

Just now, FIF said:

 

I like him but I really think a lot of FTers are in cuckoo land calling for his return and expecting him to "dominate" in the prem. A recall in January could knock him back years.

100% agree, they see a few glimpses of magic in a league that is so split in terms of skill and money. 

If he manages to stick at it all season with WBA, then ill get a bit more excited.

 

Then re-evaluate in the summer; either keep or loan to lower prem team

[lcfc sheff]

6 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

I like him but I really think a lot of FTers are in cuckoo land calling for his return and expecting him to "dominate" in the prem. A recall in January could knock him back years.

I certainly don’t expect him to “dominate”, however I do think he’d get plenty of game time as our attacking players are arguably the weakest part of our team; so he’d definitely get the experience needed whilst also bedding him in for the quality needed in the Prem for next season.

[UniFox21]

Just now, lcfc sheff said:

I certainly don’t expect him to “dominate”, however I do think he’d get plenty of game time as our attacking players are arguably the weakest part of our team; so he’d definitely get the experience needed whilst also bedding him in for the quality needed in the Prem for next season.

The confidence he's getting at WBA, playing weekly as one of their star players beats the bit part he'd play with us. 

next season maybe, but now he needs to stay where he is

[lcfc sheff]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

The confidence he's getting at WBA, playing weekly as one of their star players beats the bit part he'd play with us. 

next season maybe, but now he needs to stay where he is

This is the thing, I don’t think we can truly know what is right or wrong with regards to his development; there’s probably equal weight either side of the coin. I’m just thinking about how bad our attacking options look at times and really think he could probably start games for us and improve us, which arguably is the most important thing.

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

This is the thing, I don’t think we can truly know what is right or wrong with regards to his development; there’s probably equal weight either side of the coin. I’m just thinking about how bad our attacking options look at times and really think he could probably start games for us and improve us, which arguably is the most important thing.

For me the time in a lower league is beneficial; We've seen so many talents flung into big teams and positions early on and plateau or crumble. 

Look at Gray, he's 22 and had 72 games for Brum before joining us in Jan 2016 and has 87 caps for us (159 total) 

Barnes is 21 next month and has around 60 first team games total. 

 

He needs this season of continual games and experience before we can start to look at him in the first team for us

[Ric Flair]

23 minutes ago, FIF said:

 

I like him but I really think a lot of FTers are in cuckoo land calling for his return and expecting him to "dominate" in the prem. A recall in January could knock him back years.

You're a strange one you are, we've a player like Barnes who has got to be one of the best attacking talents to come through this club in decades and we're badly lacking in options there and you question whether hes ready but then claims the likes of Hamza Choudhury are, who has looked out of his depth in every game bar vs 10 men at home to Arsenal.

 

I know it's a matter of opinions but Barnes has excelled at every level he's been thrown in to, why would it be that much of a surprise if he were to do the same at PL level. He seems to have really progressed since last season, hes destined for the top.

[Finnegan]

11 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You're a strange one you are, we've a player like Barnes who has got to be one of the best attacking talents to come through this club in decades and we're badly lacking in options there and you question whether hes ready but then claims the likes of Hamza Choudhury are, who has looked out of his depth in every game bar vs 10 men at home to Arsenal.

 

I know it's a matter of opinions but Barnes has excelled at every level he's been thrown in to, why would it be that much of a surprise if he were to do the same at PL level. He seems to have really progressed since last season, hes destined for the top.

 

Sorry Ric but Barnes hasn't excelled at every level he's been thrown in at, he's looked nervous and out of place almost every time he's played for the first team, even playing in tinpot cup games. 

 

He definitely should stay out on loan. We're clearly severely lacking in wide options and in January should go out and replace Mahrez properly with a couple of tidy, top flight quality wingers. Ghezzal was a disgraceful signing as our own replacement. 

 

We need to go and spend money to  rectify that, not recall an academy kid who's happy on loan. 

[Foxxed]

49 minutes ago, FIF said:

Doing good, some of the time, at WBA is NO indication he'll do good in the Prem or with us. 

Definitely. He won't instantly make the grade. But he does show promise. Whether he'll better develop here or on loan (when he's already the best number 10 in that division) is debatable though.

[Foxxed]

If West Brom keep him as a left sided striker I'd keep him there though. It'd benefit us if he comes here as a number 10 who can equally play as a left sided striker.

Edited 25 November 2018 by Foxxed

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

You're a strange one you are, we've a player like Barnes who has got to be one of the best attacking talents to come through this club in decades and we're badly lacking in options there and you question whether hes ready but then claims the likes of Hamza Choudhury are, who has looked out of his depth in every game bar vs 10 men at home to Arsenal.

 

I know it's a matter of opinions but Barnes has excelled at every level he's been thrown in to, why would it be that much of a surprise if he were to do the same at PL level. He seems to have really progressed since last season, hes destined for the top.

We agree on many points regarding our youth players Ric but not with Barnes. I've seen flashes of brilliance in the championship but I've also seen him totally non-existant. I've always been under-impressed with his performances for our U23s or first team.

 

I think our defenders are better adapted to play for our first team in the prem than Barnes. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm worried that Barnes, if he came back, would play and disappear, I'd rather he gained a lot more experience and consistency before returning.

 

As for Hamza, he has the motor and skills that are easily transferrable to the prem. In fact his energy and bustle is exactly what we need in central midfield to ignite everyone else and free up our attackers to attack. He is as close to Kanté as anyone else I've seen and he has great football intelligence.

[brucey]

33 minutes ago, FIF said:

We agree on many points regarding our youth players Ric but not with Barnes. I've seen flashes of brilliance in the championship but I've also seen him totally non-existant. I've always been under-impressed with his performances for our U23s or first team.

 

I think our defenders are better adapted to play for our first team in the prem than Barnes. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm worried that Barnes, if he came back, would play and disappear, I'd rather he gained a lot more experience and consistency before returning.

 

As for Hamza, he has the motor and skills that are easily transferrable to the prem. In fact his energy and bustle is exactly what we need in central midfield to ignite everyone else and free up our attackers to attack. He is as close to Kanté as anyone else I've seen and he has great football intelligence.

I agree re Barnes. Going missing in games occasionally is perhaps expected from flair players, but he also seems to have an ongoing issue of having real trouble shooting from inside the box (missing loads of tap ins) and I'd rather he sorted that out before coming back, as chances in the PL are at a premium.

 

Don't agree re Hamza. His tackling and passing is decent, but the difference was painfully noticeable when he stepped in for Ndidi for a couple games last season. Also he hasn't always been consistent, he was the worst player on the pitch in the last U23 game earlier this week.

 

I haven't seen anything from Ndukwu or Muskwe to justify the hype around them either. I feel like Wright and Hughes are the only ones who have impressed from the U23s. 

[themightyfin]

53 minutes ago, FIF said:

We agree on many points regarding our youth players Ric but not with Barnes. I've seen flashes of brilliance in the championship but I've also seen him totally non-existant. I've always been under-impressed with his performances for our U23s or first team.

 

I think our defenders are better adapted to play for our first team in the prem than Barnes. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm worried that Barnes, if he came back, would play and disappear, I'd rather he gained a lot more experience and consistency before returning.

 

As for Hamza, he has the motor and skills that are easily transferrable to the prem. In fact his energy and bustle is exactly what we need in central midfield to ignite everyone else and free up our attackers to attack. He is as close to Kanté as anyone else I've seen and he has great football intelligence.

Hamza Is as close to Kante as anyone else you have seen? 

That is s very strong statement.

 

As much as I'd like to see Hamza succeed I feel like you must have watched very little football in your lifetime to say he's close to Kante. 

 

I've seen some statement's here over the years but this has to be up there with the best. 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

 

Sorry Ric but Barnes hasn't excelled at every level he's been thrown in at, he's looked nervous and out of place almost every time he's played for the first team, even playing in tinpot cup games. 

 

He definitely should stay out on loan. We're clearly severely lacking in wide options and in January should go out and replace Mahrez properly with a couple of tidy, top flight quality wingers. Ghezzal was a disgraceful signing as our own replacement. 

 

We need to go and spend money to  rectify that, not recall an academy kid who's happy on loan. 

His career reads

 

1) U18's pissed it

2) U23's pissed it

3) Went to MK Dons in League One for half a season and got their young player of the year award and was superb

4) Followed that up with being joint top scorer for England U20's that summer

5) Went on loan to Barnsley in the Championship and was their shining light with half a dozen goals and similar amount of assists in half a season

6) Came back and played about 180 mins of football for us in 5 months.

7) Gone on loan to the Championship again and is one of the standout players in the division. Contributed 11 goals in 20 games.

 

He's met every step up with very little trouble, he's showing huge improvement and isn't even 21 yet. The next test is performing for us, he may well feel the pressure which he'll have to adapt to. His performances in the FA Cup last season were very disappointing but against that opposition he's already proven is food and drink to him so that isn't a concern. With our lack of options right now, it's a no brainer he comes back and challenges Gray, Maddison and Albrighton for a first team spot.

[st albans fox]

Hamza is similar to NG .........

 

given how young he is there is time for him to develop but he really isn’t anywhere close to comparable at the moment - plenty to work on but far from the finished article ....... and miles from the best holding midfielder in world football ! 

[Ric Flair]

1 hour ago, FIF said:

We agree on many points regarding our youth players Ric but not with Barnes. I've seen flashes of brilliance in the championship but I've also seen him totally non-existant. I've always been under-impressed with his performances for our U23s or first team.

 

I think our defenders are better adapted to play for our first team in the prem than Barnes. I hope I'm proven wrong but I'm worried that Barnes, if he came back, would play and disappear, I'd rather he gained a lot more experience and consistency before returning.

 

As for Hamza, he has the motor and skills that are easily transferrable to the prem. In fact his energy and bustle is exactly what we need in central midfield to ignite everyone else and free up our attackers to attack. He is as close to Kanté as anyone else I've seen and he has great football intelligence.

He's been the standout young player in the Championship this season, how has that not impressed you? We've just paid £24m for someone with a very similar career path to Barnes and who will come back and challenge him for a first team spot. If you're impressed by Maddison, then you ought to be impressed by Barnes.

 

Barnes is next level in terms of quality from our academy. 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

He's been the standout young player in the Championship this season, how has that not impressed you? We've just paid £24m for someone with a very similar career path to Barnes and who will come back and challenge him for a first team spot. If you're impressed by Maddison, then you ought to be impressed by Barnes.

 

Barnes is next level in terms of quality from our academy. 

I hope that Barnes ends up as good as you say and that Hamza ends up as good as I say for Leicester.

[Papasmurf]

2 hours ago, FIF said:

 

I really think a lot of FTers are in cuckoo land 

No shit Sherlock. 

[WigstonWanderer]

8 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Sorry Ric but Barnes hasn't excelled at every level he's been thrown in at, he's looked nervous and out of place almost every time he's played for the first team, even playing in tinpot cup games. 

 

He definitely should stay out on loan. We're clearly severely lacking in wide options and in January should go out and replace Mahrez properly with a couple of tidy, top flight quality wingers. Ghezzal was a disgraceful signing as our own replacement. 

 

We need to go and spend money to  rectify that, not recall an academy kid who's happy on loan. 

But we’re so shit at spending serious money

[Foxxed]

10 hours ago, Finnegan said:

 

Sorry Ric but Barnes hasn't excelled at every level he's been thrown in at, he's looked nervous and out of place almost every time he's played for the first team, even playing in tinpot cup games. 

 

He definitely should stay out on loan. We're clearly severely lacking in wide options and in January should go out and replace Mahrez properly with a couple of tidy, top flight quality wingers. Ghezzal was a disgraceful signing as our own replacement. 

 

We need to go and spend money to  rectify that, not recall an academy kid who's happy on loan. 

Can you really judge him based on two cup games? And a handful of minutes as a sub?

 

He had a few quiet games as West Brom, the fans complaining he's going missing and shirking challenges, but given 10 or so games he's become a definite starter and the star number 10 in the division.

 

If theyre promising to play him as a striker, though, he should stay at the Baggies. It's the one area that would really, really benefit us and an area he could improve in.