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Cardiff_Fox

The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

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29 minutes ago, Stadt said:

West Brom and Burnley have won more than us, are they bigger clubs? No.

 

Man City have always been well supported, have a solid history in terms of league finishes and honours which mean they were definitely in the top 10 biggest clubs in the country even pre-takeover.

 

You’re right they have been, though they might have been seen as a fairly big club they had been awful on the pitch for decades, point is they were worlds away from being talked about alongside Man Utd and Liverpool, but football fans have short memories and a few top 6 finishes in row will have us being perceived as one of the “big 6” or however many it is by then

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Man U will always be a big club in the same way Liverpool were still seen as a big club when they were regularly finishing mid-table. Everyone knew they had the potential to challenge again and they were still able to attract players like Torres.

Edited by Captain...

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1368642995_Screenshot2019-12-11at12_40_14.thumb.png.395341cd6998ef55f4f5ac89a4d495b2.png

 

 

As a brand this is undoubtedly correct. However in the Premier League at the moment players have to ask themselves do I want to play for a bigger brand and play for an indifferent football team or play for a lesser brand but a better football team. :dunno:

Edited by Steven
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I dont know man, I never rated Man City as a club, even before takeover. They had a decent trophy haul pre 2008 but I always viewed them in the same context as West Ham/Sunderland level. Well supported but a bit meh otherwise.

Edited by Koke
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I do not buy into this big club stuff, they may be a bigger brand currently, we are in the now and history is irrelevant. Look at Villa, they have never won the Premier League, have a load of Div 1 wins in victorian times and one 70+ years later in 1981, like many of the once big teams have had their day, some of the current big brands may start to fade away and others will take their place, this happens slowly at first, as it always has done, so ignore all these plastic supporters from these so called big clubs, most of which do not even live anywhere near Manchester, Liverpool or London. We are having a go, to achieve better things, that is all that matters.

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History is not irrelevant - not modern history anyway. Liverpool are huge globally - especially in the Asian sub continent and se asia

 

kids of 70’s/80’s lpool supporting winners have grown up as Liverpool supporters, winning the odd cup now and again .... 

 

same is now true of yanited fans - seems less so re arsenal, Chelsea and certainty  Man City 
 

im afraid that I can never see us having the draw of a Liverpool or yanited, irrespective of what we achieve over the next decade ..... but spurs, Chelsea and Man City could be fairly easily displaced over that timescale ....

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I have always found the ‘big club’ debate slightly absurd. My main issue is how do you quantify a ‘big club’? 

 

Is it trophies won? If so, why are spurs defined as a ‘big club’ and not us? Is it attendance? If so, why are Chelsea a ‘big club’ and not Sunderland or Newcastle? Also, if Peterborough United are suddenly given a shiny new 60,0000 seated stadium (Man City), would they suddenly be a ‘big club’? 

 

I find the ‘history’ argument revisionist claptrap, romanticising a bygone age that probably never existed; and even if it did, who would want to go back? Also, are Preston, Stoke or Northampton (all of whom have a great history) ‘big clubs’?

 

I suppose you could argue that a combination of the above constitutes a ‘big club’, (Man U/Liverpool) but I would argue that it’s partly a marketing ploy, aimed at creating a monopoly that prohibits other clubs entering. That what makes our achievements  of ‘plucky’ Leicester more astonishing. 

 

 

 

 

 

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Who wants to be a man utd mancity Liverpool,  they have a huge plastic /armchair following.  We are Leicester we dont need to emulate anybody,  winning the premier league for me was an experience all of their plastic fans wouldn't understand., we are what we are and i for one love it.

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53 minutes ago, Koke said:

Would Rafa had gone to Newcastle if they weren't perceived to be a big club? Would he have gone to Brighton instead? Their finances are not far apart.

 

Would Bielsa had gone to Leeds if they also weren't perceived as a big club? Bielsa wouldn't have gone to Bristol City or Birmingham City.

 

The "big club", debate are tiring but they do matter. Supposed big clubs can attract better names than clubs around them who have similar finances  

 

Not being very good with the English language, it helped that the majority of Leeds’ fanbase have the same struggles. 

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4 hours ago, st albans fox said:

History is not irrelevant - not modern history anyway. Liverpool are huge globally - especially in the Asian sub continent and se asia

 

kids of 70’s/80’s lpool supporting winners have grown up as Liverpool supporters, winning the odd cup now and again .... 

 

same is now true of yanited fans - seems less so re arsenal, Chelsea and certainty  Man City 
 

im afraid that I can never see us having the draw of a Liverpool or yanited, irrespective of what we achieve over the next decade ..... but spurs, Chelsea and Man City could be fairly easily displaced over that timescale ....

You wrote a good post but came to the wrong conclusion.

Leicestershire youngsters are now predominantly leicester and therefores kids of the 20teens will grow up as leicester supporters, therein breeds the generational change of "big" clubs. And we have picked up a fair few international fans along the way from the first title win, which will only increase WHEN we win more.

 

2016 was the start but this is the real beginning.

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Club size is no longer tied to its domestic appeal, but now to the scale of its marketing department’s global success.

Sad and cynical perhaps, but true I feel.

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35 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

You wrote a good post but came to the wrong conclusion.

Leicestershire youngsters are now predominantly leicester and therefores kids of the 20teens will grow up as leicester supporters, therein breeds the generational change of "big" clubs. And we have picked up a fair few international fans along the way from the first title win, which will only increase WHEN we win more.

 

2016 was the start but this is the real beginning.

I think that is a good point we need to make Leicester like Newcastle or Leeds where every kid that grows up there grows up a Leicester fan. I am a little jealous of the fanatical support in Leeds and Newcastle.

 

When I grew up there were loads of plastic United and Liverpool fans. We make Leicester blue then we go a long way to creating a fan base that will sustain a big club.

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25 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

Club size is no longer tied to its domestic appeal, but now to the scale of its marketing department’s global success.

Sad and cynical perhaps, but true I feel.

Tbh its the only possible explanation behind Man Utd being “the biggest club in the world” as is often claimed

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41 minutes ago, gw_leics772 said:

You wrote a good post but came to the wrong conclusion.

Leicestershire youngsters are now predominantly leicester and therefores kids of the 20teens will grow up as leicester supporters, therein breeds the generational change of "big" clubs. And we have picked up a fair few international fans along the way from the first title win, which will only increase WHEN we win more.

 

2016 was the start but this is the real beginning.

 

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I think that is a good point we need to make Leicester like Newcastle or Leeds where every kid that grows up there grows up a Leicester fan. I am a little jealous of the fanatical support in Leeds and Newcastle.

 

When I grew up there were loads of plastic United and Liverpool fans. We make Leicester blue then we go a long way to creating a fan base that will sustain a big club.

Sorry fellas but even if every person in Leicestershire was an Lcfc fan, it still wouldn’t make us a ‘big club’

 

im talking globally - when you go into a bar in the middle of nowhere in China and there are a few people wearing liverpool shirts and you think ..... seriously??  When we were in Hong Kong for the tournament and you couldn’t move for Liverpool fans ..... even the ‘Nepal reds’ !!!!

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2 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

Sorry fellas but even if every person in Leicestershire was an Lcfc fan, it still wouldn’t make us a ‘big club’

 

im talking globally - when you go into a bar in the middle of nowhere in China and there are a few people wearing liverpool shirts and you think ..... seriously??  When we were in Hong Kong for the tournament and you couldn’t move for Liverpool fans ..... even the ‘Nepal reds’ !!!!

I remember three years ago, Leicester was the most popular Premier league club in two countries: Thailand and Algeria (admittedly, two more countries than most Premier League clubs). I seriously think that was one of the reasons the club signed Ghezzal, hoping you would catch fire, and keep that Algeria connection going.

 

As long as King Power own the club, I think we will be big in Thailand. It's good that the "story" happened just as the Premier League became more readily available in the US (and for many US fans, it was their first "story"), so Leicester has a bigger base in the US than some traditional clubs like Aston Villa or Leeds. Leicester won't ever be one of the big 4 (Man City and Spurs just aren't in that category), but I think it can have a sizable international following that puts it firmly in the top 10 for English clubs.

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4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

Sorry fellas but even if every person in Leicestershire was an Lcfc fan, it still wouldn’t make us a ‘big club’

 

im talking globally - when you go into a bar in the middle of nowhere in China and there are a few people wearing liverpool shirts and you think ..... seriously??  When we were in Hong Kong for the tournament and you couldn’t move for Liverpool fans ..... even the ‘Nepal reds’ !!!!

Of course, but that's where it starts, at home. If we have a local fan base that will fill a 45-50 thousand seater stadium every week then they will build one. Then we have the stadium, the local fan base, the ownership structure. The modest long term history and a very successful short term history that we are building on. 

 

It won't happen overnight but one way to grow is to increase the local fan base, increase stadium capacity and maintain our current success on the pitch.

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http://www.stadium-maps.com/facts/epl_facebook_table.html

 

Do not know how accurate it is but it says we are the 7th best in global support in the Premier League. A long way behind the big 6 though. What is interesting is how well Man City have done to overtake Arsenal. Just shows what happens when you are successful. 

 

10 years ago thry would not have been anywhere near them. 

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On 03/12/2019 at 18:18, Hammo said:

You and hordes of others, mate

I'm not fussed about being bigger, I want to be better. 

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1 hour ago, Captain... said:

I think that is a good point we need to make Leicester like Newcastle or Leeds where every kid that grows up there grows up a Leicester fan. I am a little jealous of the fanatical support in Leeds and Newcastle.

 

When I grew up there were loads of plastic United and Liverpool fans. We make Leicester blue then we go a long way to creating a fan base that will sustain a big club.

You don't do that by making it a nightmare to get a ticket, we need another 10/15k seats

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8 minutes ago, Manwell Pablo said:


You create fan bases like that by staying at the top for a sustained period, and the timings of Manchester United and to a lesser extent Liverpool and arsenals dominance in recent years is what’s helped them to become perceived as unstoppable power houses  that have always been able to bring in the best players, it’s simply not true. They’ve all had periods in history where a player playing for the likes of Burnley Spurs or Huddersfield probably wouldn’t of been interested. Footballs changed a lot with the times, and it continues to do so.

 

Manchester City are the perfect example, yes they’ve done it with the help of investment, quite serious investment, but I can remember a time when them being noteworthy in world football was a laughable thought. And it’s the result of that investment on the pitch that’s put them where they are now not the investment itself. 
 

The Manchester United fan above needs to ask himself a question when claiming players will still sign for Manchester United for the same reason they signed for Liverpool when they spent “30 years in their shadow” ( a ridiculous statement to make whilst calling out other fans for being unperceptive, but that’s another story) and that is how many Manchester United players wouldn’t sign for city if they came knocking if his club weren’t stubborn enough to not allow them to.

 

for us it’s about consistency, it’s a massive ask, but if we can continue to do what we are doing, why can’t we grow that bigger fan base. Why can’t finish in the top six more regularly, and why can’t we give ourself a bigger platform to launch ourselves into becoming a commercial force and being able to bring elite players to the club. United had sky, Chelsea had ambramovic and city had the money from the Middle East. No reason to think if you manage to sustain good performance through careful management, good business, and fair enough an unlikely fairy tale title win, the result will be any different.
 

There’s a long way to go in that regard but we finally seem to be  building on 2016 with an extremely young squad that can challenge anyone on its day, those at the helm have shown serious grit when it comes to warding off other clubs from signing our best players, and if we finish top four continuing that job will just get easier. Old Red Devilish can think James Maddison is going to join the mighty Manchester United to play Hajduk split in the Europa league when he’s got the option of champions league football with little old Leicester all he wants, but he’s kidding himself. 

 

the future could be extremely bright. We could also go back to being mid table fodder next season for one reason or another though but let’s enjoy the moment :ph34r:

We can grow but we won’t ever catch the really big boys .... btw, Man City shirts are tough to find in e Asian bars. Of course there are people who simply want to be associated with winners. Would be fun to see what would happen if we actually won it again ...... perhaps our underdog status would encourage plenty to come across ?  But the pool and yanited fans simply wouldn’t jump. 

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