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The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

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16 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

They all say that now...

not sure everyone (general public) thought a father of two married for 27 years was gay prior to the announcement.

Hence the interest it.

i had no idea he was married tbh

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Out Foxed said:

everyone thought he was gay

Everyone? Did you ask them all yourself? 

 

Apologies for being literal, but I'm allergic to sweeping statements on behalf of other people. 

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

I’m very ashamed of myself now.

I'd say I thought better of you than this but, let's be honest, we both know I'd be lying :P

 

 

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1 hour ago, HighPeakFox said:

Everyone? Did you ask them all yourself? 

 

Apologies for being literal, but I'm allergic to sweeping statements on behalf of other people. 

I didn't think Schofield was gay either.

 

Tbh I'd never given his preferences any thought. If pushed to pigeon hole him, say, a month ago, I'd have perhaps just said he was beta.

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3 hours ago, Leeds Fox said:


Why would people’s opinions on it matter? Probably an ignorant (intended to be harmless) thing to say but here lies the problem. 

Oh yeah you're right but it was a harmless post, bloke didn't mean anything by it like I said.

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51 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

Oh yeah you're right but it was a harmless post, bloke didn't mean anything by it like I said.


Yeah I agree there was no harm intended. I don’t really know why I replied because I couldn’t really care less. 

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I'm well aware of what a Bear is in gay circles unfortunately. 

 

I picked it when I was a teenager before I knew about that sort of stuff. It was actually based on a private joke at school. 

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10 hours ago, The Bear said:

I'm well aware of what a Bear is in gay circles unfortunately. 

 

I picked it when I was a teenager before I knew about that sort of stuff. It was actually based on a private joke at school. 

 

I think I can safely point out that Chilwell and Madders have spoken up on homophobia in football in the recent past. As society has become more tolerant, football increasingly looks shamefully backward, and I'm sure that younger players see that more clearly than players in the past.

 

I think it is worth remembering Justin Fashanu when discussing this issue. Surely his tragic death had a chilling effect on improvements in the English game, even if it was a long time ago.

 

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Anyone on here who can cut and paste the Athletic article about fancy software we might be installing at the training ground?

 

The first few paragraphs seemed promising...

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Why Premier League clubs are turning to an Australian bank in big numbers

Teams in England’s top two divisions are taking sizeable loans from Macquarie, at times mortgaged against future TV earnings

Ed AaronsTue 11 Feb 2020 15.30 GMT
 

Leicester and Wolves extended loans with Macquarie on the same day in January. Leicester and Wolves extended loans with Macquarie on the same day in January. Photograph: John Sibley/Action Images via Reuters

It was once dubbed the “vampire kangaroo” and accused of “feasting on Britain’s creaking infrastructure” after investing in companies such as Thames Water and avoiding tax through a legal but controversial web of subsidiaries in Luxembourg and the Cayman Islands. But Macquarie Group Limited is a growing influence on English football, underlined on one day in January by Leicester and Wolves extending sizeable loans with the Australian investment bank that are mortgaged against future TV earnings.

Now with a portfolio that also includes Bournemouth, Crystal Palace, Middlesbrough, Sheffield United, Southampton, Swansea City, Watford, West Bromwich Albion and Wolverhampton Wanderers, a company estimated to manage almost £288bn worth of assets has emerged as the second-biggest lender behind Barclays Bank in an industry where owners continue to chase the dream. Since 2013 and encouraged by increased transparency in the game following the introduction of Uefa’s financial fair play regulations, Macquarie estimates that it has completed more than $1.5bn in loans across Europe’s major leagues, specialising in “transfer financing” and “media and sponsorship rights monetisation”.

Any club that uses such a facility must register a charge – security against the loan – with Companies House. The latest arrangement with Wolves, registered on 13 January, extends their £50m lending facility until March 2021. That means part of the credits of future TV income – worth £130m a season under the latest deal – have been transferred to Macquarie in exchange for their capital, although it is not known how much interest Wolves will pay to receive the money in advance.

The latest charge registered by Leicester was also added on 13 January. But rather than being evidence of more borrowing, this was because the arrangement has to be ratified every six months by the Premier League, which distributes TV rights from its central fund.

“Every time [a club] renew, effectively they are extending the length of the overdraft and it means that Macquarie are entitled to the money from the next tranche of TV money from the Premier League,” explains Kieran Maguire, who is a senior teacher at the University of Liverpool’s Management School and specialises in football finance. “There’s an awful lot of clubs doing this and it makes a lot of sense. The broadcasting payments are made three or four times a year but you’ve got all of the overheads going out in between, including the wage bill.

“I understand that a lot of banks are providing similar services but, because they are not formally registering a charge, we don’t see the documentation because nothing is going through Companies House. It’s a risk in the same way that if you take out a mortgage and it helps from a cash flow point of view.”

 

Macquarie Group Limited estimates that it has completed more than $1.5bn in loans across Europe’s major leagues. Macquarie Group Limited estimates that it has completed more than $1.5bn in loans across Europe’s major leagues. Photograph: David Gray/Reuters

Leicester’s relationship with Macquarie began in October 2018, three months after Riyad Mahrez joined Manchester City for £60m. As is common in most modern transfers, Pep Guardian’s side were due to pay in instalments, with the final £36m due in two tranches by the end of July 2020. Enter Macquarie. In exchange for the £36m, Leicester agreed a secured borrowing facility that means the transfer fee will be paid to Macquarie instead.

A similar service is provided by XXIII Capital, the company which has financed several multimillion transfer deals including Antoine Griezmann’s €120m move to Barcelona and that of his replacement at Atlético Madrid, João Félix. Known in the business as “transfer factoring”, it has become an increasingly popular way of raising finance quickly to enable clubs to compete in the transfer market and deal with spiralling wage bills. But with interest rates estimated to be at least 6%-7%, the risks are clear.

Leicester’s latest loan does not specify how much they can borrow from Macquarie, although it is the sixth time they have entered an arrangement with the lender. The second – made in December 2018 – has been satisfied but was reported at the time to be larger than the first arrangement over Mahrez and had been earmarked to help fund a new training ground and expand the King Power Stadium. Two more are outstanding, although Maguire does not believe there is any evidence of financial difficulties at a club on course to qualify for the Champions League.

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“What will often happen is that you might have separate charge arrangements over separate assets belonging to the club,” he says. “It could be something as simple as that; I don’t think there is anything Machiavellian in it.”

Macquarie says it is selective about who it does business with. It has been marketing its services directly to English clubs and many have jumped at the opportunity to improve their cash flow. Southampton, who previously borrowed money from the mysterious Vibrac Corporation that came under scrutiny from MPs in 2016, have a long-established relationship, having first taken out a loan in November 2016 secured against future TV rights. They have since returned annually and filed a new charge in the summer.

 

Macquarie purchased half of the credits owed to Crystal Palace from the £45m transfer of Aaron Wan-Bissaka to Manchester United. Macquarie purchased half of the credits owed to Crystal Palace from the £45m transfer of Aaron Wan-Bissaka to Manchester United. Photograph: Peter Cziborra/Action Images via Reuters

Meanwhile, Macquarie purchased half of the credits owed to Crystal Palace from the £45m transfer of Aaron Wan-Bissaka to Manchester United last summer. Courtesy of the bank, Bournemouth received the £12m then owed by Aston Villa for the England defender Tyrone Mings 12 months earlier than scheduled. Even Craig Dawson’s £5.5m move to Watford in the summer led West Brom to take out a £2,395,300 loan, corresponding to the amount of the fee they were due to be paid in June 2021.

Swansea’s first loan with Macquarie after they sold the Spanish midfielder Roque Mesa in June 2018 was satisfiedlast week, although the Championship club have two outstanding arrangements made almost 18 months ago. High-interest repayments from what Maguire describes as “boutique lenders” have become a feature of the multibillion-pound industry that is modern football but he does not think it necessarily spells trouble.

“Any form of borrowing comes with an element of risk,” he says. “But fans might also take the view that if the club borrows and invests that on the pitch with players then that is likely to reduce the risk of relegation, therefore assuring the club of another year’s TV money. It’s a double-edge sword. In an ideal world I think most fans would prefer that the club owner takes on the form of a benevolent dictator and gifts the club the money through an interest-free loan, like Farhad Moshiri has done at Everton. But they are always much harder to find.”

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Turning installments into cash :dunno:

 

 

(Reads further, maybe not just that!)

Edited by Dahnsouff

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There’s something wrong when the selling club are taking out loans to replace a departing asset. Smaller clubs need to be stronger and demand full payment up front and let the buying club take the risk. It’s topsy turvy.

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21 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There’s something wrong when the selling club are taking out loans to replace a departing asset. Smaller clubs need to be stronger and demand full payment up front and let the buying club take the risk. It’s topsy turvy.

It’s generally a weighing up .... if you want it all up front then you tend to have to compromise a bit on the fee.  We made yanited pay for maguire all up front cos we held the cards and were prepared to walk away .....

 

most clubs will take the bigger fee over a couple years and if there is a way of getting that money sooner by sorting something with a bank then the interest paid to the bank could well be outweighed by the larger fee received ....makes financial sense 

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I don’t think it is anything to be worried about at all, just making cash available for the training ground and stadium expansion. The bank knows we will be able to pay them back, with or without European football, and enabled us to get the ball rolling on the developments sooner. 

 

We are far from the only club transfer factoring either - Liverpool did it with the Coutinho transfer and I don’t think they are having any financial troubles! In regard to it being a loan, often the agreement will be such that the buying club is paying any interest that is due, so the selling club is not losing out by doing this.
 

On a side note, Kieran Maguire (the expert mentioned in the article) does a podcast called the ‘Price of Football’ - a really good listen for those interested in Football Finance or just generally want a better idea of how the money within the industry works.

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4 minutes ago, davieG said:

What someone thinks all the players earn, there's massive gap between top and bottom some upgrades probably needed.

 

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/leicester-city-s-amazing-season-and-how-much-the-players-are-earning-in-pictures-1.977929#23

Thats gotta be b@lls surely....

 

Youri on 33k whereas pretty much every other first XI players is on 50/60+

 

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15 hours ago, Strokes said:

There’s something wrong when the selling club are taking out loans to replace a departing asset. Smaller clubs need to be stronger and demand full payment up front and let the buying club take the risk. It’s topsy turvy.

Its been spoken about on here before. 

 

I'm sure they know what they are doing. I mean you wouldnt be a billionaire by making decisions like that would you. 

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It’s all to do with cash flow and liquid cash. Even the TV money is in three payments and there’s examples like Maguire where we demanded the initial payment to be a significant amount of the overall deal. 

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1 hour ago, davieG said:

What someone thinks all the players earn, there's massive gap between top and bottom some upgrades probably needed.

 

https://www.thenational.ae/sport/football/leicester-city-s-amazing-season-and-how-much-the-players-are-earning-in-pictures-1.977929#23

 

1 hour ago, Dahnsouff said:

Thats gotta be b@lls surely....

 

Youri on 33k whereas pretty much every other first XI players is on 50/60+

 

This is their source:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/leicester-city/payroll/

 

Not sure how much truth there is as the list still includes Iborra, who left over a year ago.

 

10k/pw for Barnes and 7.5k/pw for Hamza is absolutely nuts considering how they've been performing regularly well in a Premier League first XI; they've both got contracts until 2024 and 23 respectively so I imagine they'll be getting a pay rise in the summer.

 

33k for Youri is unbelievable.

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30 minutes ago, Ashley said:

Its been spoken about on here before. 

 

I'm sure they know what they are doing. I mean you wouldnt be a billionaire by making decisions like that would you. 

Point taken,

Although previous success in other areas, doesn’t always translate. Otherwise no football club would ever fall into difficulty.

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25 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

 

This is their source:

 

https://www.spotrac.com/epl/leicester-city/payroll/

 

Not sure how much truth there is as the list still includes Iborra, who left over a year ago.

 

10k/pw for Barnes and 7.5k/pw for Hamza is absolutely nuts considering how they've been performing regularly well in a Premier League first XI; they've both got contracts until 2024 and 23 respectively so I imagine they'll be getting a pay rise in the summer.

 

33k for Youri is unbelievable.

If it is last year’s (with Iborra) it could be we only paid 50% of Youri’s wage while he was on loan, or something similar. Would surely be on more now.

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