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The "do they mean us?" thread pt 2

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On 12/02/2020 at 12:46, StriderHiryu said:

Very good article in the Independent today, that's well worth a read:

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/champions-league-superclubs-liverpool-man-utd-barcelona-real-madrid-a9330431.html

 

“We don’t want too many Leicester Citys.”

These were the words spoken by a senior figure from the Premier League’s ‘big six’ clubs, in the kind of high-end London hotel you can easily imagine.

If that comment came from anyone at Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or Man City. The Man U and Liverpool delegates must’ve looked at them and thought.,.bruv, how do you think we felt when you lot piped up.

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7 hours ago, brucey said:

It's a good article and backs up what several are saying on here. But you'll still get those saying, "we're 3rd, ffs!" and "xg isn't a thing!" thereby completely failing to grasp the point that these metrics provide. It's a worrying lack of form and Rodgers is showing literally no sign of trying to change anything. 

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2 minutes ago, Flappit said:

It's a good article and backs up what several are saying on here. But you'll still get those saying, "we're 3rd, ffs!" and "xg isn't a thing!" thereby completely failing to grasp the point that these metrics provide. It's a worrying lack of form and Rodgers is showing literally no sign of trying to change anything. 

Our form is iffy, but so is that of everyone else. Everton are the on form chaser and only gained 3 points on us in the last 6. We are currently 20 ahead, so similar form means it would take them an age to catch us.

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Just now, Babylon said:

Our form is iffy, but so is that of everyone else. Everton are the on form chaser and only gained 3 points on us in the last 6. We are currently 20 ahead, so similar form means it would take them an age to catch us.

Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, I'd much rather be where we are! But using our position (gained by incredible early season form) as a guide to our current form and performance is misguided. We've been lucky with a lot of results that have prevented the usual suspects going on a sustained run. 

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42 minutes ago, Flappit said:

It's a good article and backs up what several are saying on here. But you'll still get those saying, "we're 3rd, ffs!" and "xg isn't a thing!" thereby completely failing to grasp the point that these metrics provide. It's a worrying lack of form and Rodgers is showing literally no sign of trying to change anything. 

You worry too much.

 

After Man City we have a run of bottom half fixtures - Norwich, Villa, Watford and Brighton taking us into April.  

 

This is where we will cement our top 4 position or at least maintain our gap imo, with 7 games left to play.

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Are we on top form ,well no but we have 50 points and i think 6 wins will see us in the champions league,  good points against Chelsea and wolves and after man city a run of games where we will pick up wins, get the passports ready boys and girls we are on our way ...again. 

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1 hour ago, murphy said:

You worry too much.

 

After Man City we have a run of bottom half fixtures - Norwich, Villa, Watford and Brighton taking us into April.  

 

This is where we will cement our top 4 position or at least maintain our gap imo, with 7 games left to play.

Oh. Like we did against Burnley and Southampton? I'd put money on us getting no more than 2 wins out of the 5 games you've mentioned if we carry on with the pedestrian approach we currently have. 

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53 minutes ago, Flappit said:

Oh. Like we did against Burnley and Southampton? I'd put money on us getting no more than 2 wins out of the 5 games you've mentioned if we carry on with the pedestrian approach we currently have. 

Nicely sandwiched between West Ham (twice) and Newcastle games that you forgot to mention.

 

Look, I'm not saying that we're at the levels of our early season form but we've still got enough.  We will pick up plenty of points from that run but I guess it depends on how you look at it.

 

741466317_download(1).jpeg.dca3447668c4e565a6c42d94ad9e3706.jpeg

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1 minute ago, murphy said:

Nicely sandwiched between West Ham (twice) and Newcastle games that you forgot to mention.

 

Look, I'm not saying that we're at the levels of our early season form but we've still got enough.  We will pick up plenty of points from that run but I guess it depends on how you look at it.

 

741466317_download(1).jpeg.dca3447668c4e565a6c42d94ad9e3706.jpeg

We were lucky against Newcastle (again!) due to injuries. When we're playing with swagger and confidence, we're brilliant. No doubt about it. West Ham we did well in both games, mainly because they didn't come and press us. Any team that gives us space will suffer. 

 

Having seen how we struggle against packed defence and pressing, how do you think those "lower half" teams will approach games against us...? 

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7 minutes ago, Flappit said:

We were lucky against Newcastle (again!) due to injuries. When we're playing with swagger and confidence, we're brilliant. No doubt about it. West Ham we did well in both games, mainly because they didn't come and press us. Any team that gives us space will suffer. 

 

Having seen how we struggle against packed defence and pressing, how do you think those "lower half" teams will approach games against us...? 

First of all, no way were we lucky against Newcastle.  Yes they had injuries in the second half but we were already in cruise control.

 

As for that run of lower half fixtures, our quality will out regardless of what the opposition do.

 

You seem to think that we've been rumbled, our weaknesses exposed and anybody can stop us playing with the right tactical set up.  I disagree.  We have better players and you can't pack the defence and press at the same time without leaving big spaces.  We'll be fine.

 

 

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11 minutes ago, murphy said:

First of all, no way were we lucky against Newcastle.  Yes they had injuries in the second half but we were already in cruise control.

 

As for that run of lower half fixtures, our quality will out regardless of what the opposition do.

 

You seem to think that we've been rumbled, our weaknesses exposed and anybody can stop us playing with the right tactical set up.  I disagree.  We have better players and you can't pack the defence and press at the same time without leaving big spaces.  We'll be fine.

 

 

I hope you're right. But I think we will continue to struggle until Rogers changes things up a bit. Only time will tell. 

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11 hours ago, brucey said:

Interesting article thanks…

 

3 hours ago, Flappit said:

It's a good article and backs up what several are saying on here. But you'll still get those saying, "we're 3rd, ffs!" and "xg isn't a thing!" thereby completely failing to grasp the point that these metrics provide. It's a worrying lack of form and Rodgers is showing literally no sign of trying to change anything. 

 

the we’re 3rd FFS brigade are of course right and it tends to garner a lot of ‘likes’ (I mean, what’s not to like?)

 

This shines a bit more of a light on our real performance and ,like it or not (many don’t), XG is quite a telling stat and you can’t sustain that level of over performance across a season….  It will invariably catch up with you

 

West Ham aside and glimpses v Chelsea we’ve been, comparatively, off the boil for a bit…

 

3 hours ago, murphy said:

 

After Man City we have a run of bottom half fixtures - Norwich, Villa, Watford and Brighton taking us into April.  

 

This is where we will cement our top 4 position or at least maintain our gap imo, with 7 games left to play.

I think you’re right Dave… we have been flat track bullies when we get our mojo going…. This run of games could be just the tonic…

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21 minutes ago, Wolfox said:

Interesting article thanks…

 

 

the we’re 3rd FFS brigade are of course right and it tends to garner a lot of ‘likes’ (I mean, what’s not to like?)

 

This shines a bit more of a light on our real performance and ,like it or not (many don’t), XG is quite a telling stat and you can’t sustain that level of over performance across a season….  It will invariably catch up with you

 

West Ham aside and glimpses v Chelsea we’ve been, comparatively, off the boil for a bit…

 

I think you’re right Dave… we have been flat track bullies when we get our mojo going…. This run of games could be just the tonic…

I think the question is, do we need to rediscover our early season form when at one time we were on course to beat our 81 point record, or will current form suffice?  We are 7th in the current form table with a 10 point buffer, only Sheff Utd from the chasing pack are above us.  Six wins from the next 12 will do it in my opinion and probably less.

 

A lot of people are worrying over last night's performance but I think that Rodgers played for a draw.  How do you play defensively against a counter attacking side?  By keeping the ball and playing in front of them.  It makes for a turgid spectacle but we got the draw that we wanted and that all but knocks Wolves out of the reckoning for overtaking us with a 14 point gap with 12 to play.  Last night was a 'must not lose'.  Job done.  Rodgers deserves credit for that but I don't think that people can see what we were trying to do.   We will be more ambitious against the lesser sides.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by murphy
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4 minutes ago, murphy said:

I think the question is, do we need to rediscover our early season form when at one time we were on course to beat our 81 point record, or will current form suffice?  We are 7th in the current form table with a 10 point buffer, only Sheff Utd from the chasing pack are above us.  Six wins from the next 12 will do it in my opinion and maybe less.

 

A lot of people are worrying over last night's performance but I think that Rodgers played for a draw.  How do you play defensively against a counter attacking side?  By keeping the ball and playing in front of them.  It makes for a turgid spectacle but we got the draw that we wanted and that all but knocks Wolves out of the reckoning for overtaking us with a 14 point gap with 12 to play.  Last night was a 'must not lose'.  Job done.   We will be more ambitious against the lesser sides.

 

 

 

 

 

We don’t need to be anywhere close to early season form to get over the line…. The odds against us muffing this up are really long….   And I don’t have an issue with us grinding out a result against those in and around us…
 

However, it would be nice to get that swagger back…. I was really rather enjoying it!

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I think Rodgers is playing the longer game. With 12 games left we don't need to pull up any trees in terms of performance, just do enough to get the job done and qualify for the Champions League. The current squad has overachieved but we are where we are because our results have merited our lofty league position. However, this squad cannot continue to punch above it's weight. The club didn't panic during the January transfer window preferring to wait and capture prime targets in the summer. I believe this strategy will be proved correct as we'll be able to entice a higher calibre of player with the promise of Champions League football. With better players added and the potential for improvement in our young squad our performances will improve significantly as they must if we are to rise to the greater challenges that lie ahead. It might be a bit of a crawl to the finish line this season but the club is planning ahead, playing the longer game, and we, as fans must be patient. This is a results business and last night's point was far more important than the performance.

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We'll get over the line this season but is slightly worrying in terms of momentum for the next one. Ending the season well can go a long way. 

Edited by TK95
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We haven't looked our best recently and we need to improve but I do think football really illustrates the strange mental gymnastics humans do, on both sides.  When we have all the possession and shots but lose (eg. Villa in the cup) then we are shit and "you gotta take your chances" and we deserve to lose.  When we play poorly and the opposition have all the possession and shots and we scrape a win or draw "we were lucky" and "should have lost".  When we have "poor form" (still not as bad as lots of our fans say) it means we are poor and will be caught but when most of our rivals have similar or worse form it does not seem to mean that they are similar or worse than us it means we are lucky because our rivals are slipping up.  I cannot understand that mindset?  That is literally saying "our form is bad and we'd be dropping down the table if those teams below us had better form but they haven't because we are lucky but they're still better than us".  As I said we do need to improve but we are in a great position and I would put everything I own on us finishing top 4.  We'll kick on next season, we still have a very young squad and this season will improve them all.  I am aware those people who are more on the glass half full side like myself do similar mental gymnastics so not solely pointing the finger at "the other side".

Edited by RumbleFox
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7 hours ago, murphy said:

You worry too much.

 

After Man City we have a run of bottom half fixtures - Norwich, Villa, Watford and Brighton taking us into April.  

 

This is where we will cement our top 4 position or at least maintain our gap imo, with 7 games left to play.

Yeah and if they ptb we will struggle like we have been

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3 minutes ago, Ron Combo said:

Don't know if this has already been posted but ffs.......

Screenshot 2020-02-16 at 10.39.09.png

Did you post this on here because he didn’t mention us ?   usually, it’s the other way around 😄

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