The Tactics Thread

[Bayfox]

3 hours ago, StriderHiryu said:

It's a topic that gets fans talking all around the country every week. The tactics, formations and systems that various teams use can often be the defining factor between success and glory. We won a shock Premier League title in part due to a shrewd choice in tactics from Claudio Ranieri who brought in a deadly counter attack with high intensity pressing to beat teams that on paper should have put us to the sword. Guardiola has revolutionised football globally with his tiki-taka high possession based system, and Antonio Conte pulled off a masterstroke by switching Chelsea to a 3-4-3 formation to win the title in his first season at Stamford Bridge. So this thread is all about the tactics Leicester City employ, explaining them and discussing them. It might not be everyone's cup of tea!

Since we ditched out counter attacking style a lot of our fans I talk to don't appear to be aware of the system we are using and what roles our players are expected to perform in it. So let's start this thread off with a look at Leicester's system used at the start of both of the last two games, the 4-2-3-1.

Before we start I just want to say:

- By no means do I consider myself a football expert! I have an interest in tactics as I once worked on a Football video game where we were trying to accurately simulate how tactics influence a match with a given set of players. To get a better understanding we went to visit multiple top coaches who explained how various tactics and systems worked which was nothing short of eye-opening. However, a Sky Sports pundit I am not.
- I don't work day-to-day with the club, coaches or players do don't know the specific intricacies of our play our strategy as outlined by the manager. We will have subtleties and nuances that are unique to our players and club. Claude Puel may well read this write-up and laugh himself silly.
- Tactics and systems change all the time and no two teams usually play identical versions of the same system.

The 4-2-3-1 System

Background

Former Real Sociedad coach Juanma Lillo is generally credited for introducing the 4-2-3-1 formation into the game. It became an instant hit with numerous Spanish teams adopting the style in the 1990s before it spread throughout the world in the early years of the new millennium. To best explain the system, I'm going to use the real life example of another famous and successful team - the 1998 World Cup winning French team. They were a bit good

What’s the idea behind it?

The 4-2-3-1 isn't just a formation but a specific ideology in how to play football. Key traits in the system are to control the game via absorbing pressure, regain possession quickly high up the pitch, and transitioning into attack quickly. The two defensive midfielders – also known as ‘double pivots’ – are essential to the system as they ensure that space left in front of the defence is catered for at all times. Once possession in won, they push forward along with the full backs, and the wingers try to get inside to assist the striker and the No. 10. If possession is lost, the wide distribution of players across the pitch ensures that the ball is regained as early as possible without the back line being broken. This is made possible by players pressing in the midfield region in order to outnumber the opposition.

I think some good examples of this play can be seen from the recent video showcasing our new Right Back Ricardo's play in our first two games. But don't just look out for him, but pay attention to the roles Maddison and Mendy play in some of these clips too.

Player Roles

The striker (9) plays an important role in this formation as the furthest man up field. He will often not feature in the build-up play going on behind him, but has a pivotal role in dragging the defenders he's up against out of position, and linking up / playing in the other forward players and 10 who support the attack. As evidenced by Thiery Henry in the French team, you don't necessarily need to be a fantastic header of the ball if you are intelligent enough to be able to make the required runs to create space for your team mates. Jamie Vardy has adapted very well to the new requirements placed on him and you'll notice he drifts around a lot more and plays in others compared to the role he played for us in 15/16. At the same time it should be noted that the very best teams in the world often play a player in this position who is physically immense such as Lewandowski, Kane, Ronaldo or Lukaku as being able to hold up the ball or getting on the end of crosses can make a difference. France themselves made an adjustment to their system putting Trezeguet up top in Euro 200 and moving Henry to play as one of the forwards.

The No. 10 is the quintessential ‘playmaker’ in the team, capable of creative football just behind the striker. France had one of the greatest number 10's of all time in Zidane and he provides a fantastic template for what a world class number 10 should look to achieve in the 4231 system. His role is to link up play and feed in dangerous passes to both the two wider forward players who assist in attacking play along the flanks and cutting in to help the striker when necessary and feeding the number 9. He'll typically receive the ball from both the central midfielders and the fullbacks who gallop up and down the pitch.

The two central defensive midfielders provide the platform on which attacks are created after regaining possession and this is often referred to as the double-pivot. The two must have precise positional sense and must complement each other perfectly. One of the two players is usually entrusted with the job of clearing attacks through tackling, while the other is more attack-oriented, and is the one to launch attacks through quick passing. These two often swap roles in order to avoid predictability and confuse the opposition. Looking at the French team of 1998, Deschamps was there to hold position and maintain shape, whereas Emanuel Petit or Patrick Vieira would be the one to join in and support the attack when they got on the ball. For Leicester, it's handled by Wilfred Ndidi and one of Silva, Mendy or Iborra.

The central defenders play a role similar to most other back four systems in stopping the opposition forwards from getting on the ball. Their primary job is to clear balls and repel attacks through tackles, heading and marking, but in a 4-2-3-1, they may often create passing triangles with the central defensive midfielders when possession is regained. You'll note this is where Harry Maguire excels in keeping the ball and helping us build moves from the back instead of pumping it down field as fast as possible as we used to play. It's also why Puel has brought in 3 new centre backs all of whom are comfortable on the ball, so that they offer an additional option to the central midfielders so that we can keep hold of the ball so we can try a risky pass in forward positions instead of turning over the ball in midfield by playing it long and high.

The full backs have a very demanding role in this system, being a hybrid of defenders and wingers in one package. They are expected to be physically fit and swift who should be both capable of clearing attacks by opposition wingers as well as launching wide attacks themselves. They will often overlap or underlap with the forward in front of them to create 2v1 "overload" scenarios to create attacking opportunities for the team. Of course naturally playing in such a way means that they leave huge spaces in behind them which can be exploited if the ball is turned over and lost up field.

The wide forwards therefore are the final piece of the puzzle. These are often "inverted" wingers - that's to say a right footed player may play on the left and vice versa so that they can cut in and shoot with their stronger foot, whereas the fullback supporting them will play on the same side as their natural kicking foot so they can cross it. These players are expected to be highly mobile to create space and drag players out of position and may sometimes push as far forward to effectively make up another striker when in possession high up the pitch. They also perform a role as being one of the first forms of defence. If the ball is lost, they need to press very quickly to force the opposition to put it out of play or back to the goalkeeper so that the fullbacks have time to get back and recover the shape and position. You'll notice this has been a huge part of Demari Gray's play this season, with him successfully tracking back to recover the ball on a number of occasions. The forwards may also swap flanks during the game to give the opposition a new threat to deal with. Now the winger is going to go down the line as opposed to cutting in.

Summary

So that's the crash course in the system we are currently using. At times during the Wolves match we shifted to a 3-4-3 / 3-4-1-2 but I'll let someone else handle a write-up of that formation. But in explaining this system, I hope it makes a few things clearer in the way we play:

- We leave Jamie Vardy up front by himself because his role is to stretch the game and drag players out of position. Being fast, a nuisance and remarkably intelligent in footballing terms he adapted to the role very well last season. Of course why we continue to lump in high crosses to short player who is not physically immense compared to the centre backs in the division remains a mystery and something that hopefully the coaches are working on with the players.

- Our fullbacks are going to bomb on and leave gaps in behind. Danny Simpson was and still is a good defender, but he's lacking in the technical ability and pace departments required to support the forward play. The same is also the reason why Chilwell has become a mainstay under Puel. We are going to concede goals this season due to these players being too far forward and it's going to be a learning curve for the team and players to work out the optimal balance.

- Mendy played as one of the double pivots under Puel at Nice, hence why it's probably no surprise to see him back in the starting 11.

- Defenders need to be good on the ball to provide passing triangles for players in front of them and also so that we retain the ball as we need to build the play up whilst our fullbacks move forwards.

Now is this system and formation the best one we could / should be using? That's not for me to say and ultimately results will be used to judge the effectiveness of what we have built and invested in. I think there are lots of promising signs especially given that Maddison and Ricardo appear to have hit the ground running. But the season is 38 games long for a reason!

 

 

Lastly if this thread hasn't bored you to sleep already, here is another good video on the formation:

 

 

I got bored after your pitch map. But what a side. Not sure I'd swap anyone bar maybe kasper for barthez based on his utd form only.

[l444ry]

7 minutes ago, Bayfox said:

I got bored after your pitch map. But what a side. Not sure I'd swap anyone bar maybe kasper for barthez based on his utd form only.

That side would probably win playing in any system.

Edited 23 August 2018 by l444ry

[Bluetintedspecs]

I read the thread title and thought this is going to be entertaining ? All credit though Strider, a very interesting read.

 

[StriderHiryu]

Just now, Bluetintedspecs said:

I read the thread title and thought this is going to be entertaining ? All credit though Strider, a very interesting read.

 

I did put the disclaimer up that it's not for everyone!

I think a lot of people will find this a lot more interesting 

 

[Foxxed]

I'm reading an idealised version of his tactics as: Chilwell and Richardo bomb up the wings, Ndidi drops back to make a back three, Mendy provides midfield support, Gray and Albrighton moves infield, then we all attempt to find Iheanacho and Maddison for a goal, while hoping our temporary back three provide enough cover for a counter attack.

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

I'm reading an idealised version of his tactics as: Chilwell and Richardo bomb up the wings, Ndidi drops back to make a back three, Mendy provides midfield support, Gray and Albrighton moves infield, then we all attempt to find Iheanacho and Maddison for a goal, while hoping our temporary back three provide enough cover for a counter attack.

We'd be too vulnerable on the counter, the space Mendy would have to cover would be too large. In a 4231 the midfield two need to be disciplined with their positioning.

[Foxxed]

3 minutes ago, Stadt said:

We'd be too vulnerable on the counter, the space Mendy would have to cover would be too large. In a 4231 the midfield two need to be disciplined with their positioning.

Mendy would need to drop back quickly after helping the full backs yeah. I'm not sure how well Ndidi fits into a temporary back three either despite the fact he's the best tackler in the league although that's not a bad attribute to have in defence... 

[Bunyip]

4 hours ago, murphy said:

Like it says in the original post.  Not everyone's cup of tea.

There are plenty of other threads where you can have a bun fight with someone or slag Wes off or something.

No intention of doing any of your suggestions they are not my cup of tea.

[Sionnach gorm]

The 4-2-3-1 is generally used when you have very strong midfielders or a very strong defence.  Honestly the games I’ve seen, it appears that we are playing a 4 man midfield.  I’m wondering what exactly Puel is planning tactically.

[brucey]

5 hours ago, Foxxed said:

Mendy would need to drop back quickly after helping the full backs yeah. I'm not sure how well Ndidi fits into a temporary back three either despite the fact he's the best tackler in the league although that's not a bad attribute to have in defence... 

Ndidi was a CB growing up in the Nath Boys academy, it was Genk who converted him to a CM.

[Foxy harry]

23 minutes ago, brucey said:

Ndidi was a CB growing up in the Nath Boys academy, it was Genk who converted him to a CM.

I wasnt the only one watching premier league world then

[Richard]

13 hours ago, Bunyip said:

They are professional players playing at the very top in football they shouldn't need telling where to stand. This system explained simply. pass side to side then back then forward only a few feet than side to side and back again. Slowly build up while the opposition gets back in numbers and read every pass you make. Then when you do get the ball in their area make sure you only have one striker who is isolated and easily closed down. Against Wolves we had an own goal and a deflected goal from a midfielder and our goal post on three occasions to get us the points. Plus how many other teams in the Prem play this system?

Most of the sides in this league do. 

[volpeazzurro]

I thought it a good read thank you and the use of the old French team, who were quite special helped me to visualise it better. Thank you. 

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Richard said:

Most of the sides in this league do. 

I beg to differ on that one.

[brockmyster]

Anyone who enjoyed that I'd recommend a book called inverting the pyramid - it goes through the tactical evolution of football, how formations changed the catalyst for that etc, so it's perfect for any fellow sad gits like me.

[Suzie the Fox]

What a fantastic read. My tactical knowledge went as far as defenders defend, strikers get goals, goal keepers save goals and the guys around the edge and in the middle tackle and pass. Well thats a slight exaggeration but you get my point.

Very nice to read a well constructed post and to have learnt something from it. 

[Ric Flair]

" Tactics, aren't they mints? "

Ben Chilwell, 2018

[Captain...]

19 hours ago, Foxxed said:

I'm reading an idealised version of his tactics as: Chilwell and Richardo bomb up the wings, Ndidi drops back to make a back three, Mendy provides midfield support, Gray and Albrighton moves infield, then we all attempt to find Iheanacho and Maddison for a goal, while hoping our temporary back three provide enough cover for a counter attack.

You don’t have both full backs bombing forwards at the same time, you also don’t bomb forwards at every opportunity. There will be triggers that will result in Ricardo going Mendy going with him right forward moves infield to create space, meanwhile left forward gets to the edge of the area, not too advanced, Ndidi holds and moves right to cover Ricardo, Chilwell tucks into the middle left ready to cover any danger coming through the middle or down his flank and the centre backs shuffle right a little or form a back 3 with Chilwell or Ndidi. This means we have wide forwards in dangerous positions Ricardo advanced to create the overload and Maddison in the pocket to pull the strings. At the same time we have Ndidi Chilwell and the centre backs in a good position to stop any counters. That is the theory anyway.

 

Most interesting bit in a very good OP is the centre backs and midfield forming passing triangles. This is an aspect of this formation that was new to me, but it makes sense. You can’t bomb forwards all the time sometimes you need to pass it around get the opposition moving and coming forwards ready to attack. 

 

I will I’ll look out for this in upcoming games.

Edited 24 August 2018 by Captain...

[Foxxed]

2 minutes ago, Captain... said:

You don’t have both full backs bombing forwards at the same time, you also don’t bomb forwards at every opportunity. There will be triggers that will result in Ricardo going Mendy going with him right forward moves in to field create the play there, mean while left forward gets to the edge of the area, Ndidi holds and moves right to cover Ricardo, Chilwell tucks into the middle left ready to cover any danger coming through the middle or down his flank the centre backs shuffle right a little or form a back 3 with Chilwell or Ndidi. This means we have wide forwards in dangerous positions Ricardo advanced to create the overload and Maddison in the pocket to pull the strings. At the same time we have Ndidi Chilwell and the centre backs in a good position to stop any counters. That is the theory anyway.

 

Most interesting bit in a very good OP is the centre backs and midfield forming and adding triangles. This is an aspect of this formation that was new to me, but it makes sense. You can’t bomb forwards all the time sometimes you need to pass it around get the opposition moving and coming forwards ready to attack. 

 

I will I’ll look out for this in upcoming games.

Aye it was simplified to save space but that's a very good description. I've seen both Chilwell and Richardo upfield however, against United, with Richardo crossing over to Chilwell, but in those cases I'm hoping both the DMs will be taking care to cover.

[nwl fox]

Great write up, but you've got to be in thr right frame of mind to read it all, ie your last half hour at work on a Friday 

[Captain...]

12 minutes ago, Foxxed said:

Aye it was simplified to save space but that's a very good description. I've seen both Chilwell and Richardo upfield however, against United, with Richardo crossing over to Chilwell, but in those cases I'm hoping both the DMs will be taking care to cover.

I guess tactics change when you’re behind in the game. It is an advantage to have young fast players as full backs as they can peg it back much quicker than Fuchs or Simpson. We still should not allow ourselves to be caught out of position too much.

[Stadt]

Wolves game analysis

I can't be arsed to be highly detailed but I'll do a brief analysis, obviously it's early days yet and it's hard to spot recurring issues across two games and Puel will obviously be trying to correct issues in training.

Useful glossary of tactical terms: https://jadamsftbl.wordpress.com/tactical-terms/

The best detailed tactical analysis site, can be convoluted and esoteric at times: https://spielverlagerung.com

Out of possession:

Generally we played a 442 mid block with Maddison pushing up alongside Vardy to prevent Wolves from building up too easily. We still had issues in this regard as Wolves had a natural overload playing a 343/541. 

Here the overload on Wolves' first line is clear with the 3 CBs against Vardy and Maddison - Neves has dropped as well to further occupy the front two which makes it even easier to Wolves to circulate the ball and by pass the front two - The space they front have to defend is too large. Albrighton steps out to pressure Boly but does it too slowly, in this situation we should press higher collectively or defend more deeply as Boly plays the ball into the channel.

What follows is where Evans gets caught and eventually Moutinho hits the post, there could be multiple reasons as to why, Evans might be rusty due to making his debut after an injury or not familiar enough with the system. On the whole he had a poor first half but improved in the second so it's most likely due to a lack of sharpness. One possible concern is that with Maguire and Evans as the CB partnership we might suffer from a lack of mobility if we continue to play in a mid block without enough pressure from the forwards. One solution would be to play slightly deeper but given how Puel wants to have a greater amount of possession we'll need to improve without the ball in the opposition half, however the number of teams playing a three at the back has decreased significantly since last season so this is relatively unique to the Wolves game.

We improved defensively in the second half, Traore caused issues with his dribbling ability and pace but that was mitigated by reducing the space for him to operate in by bringing Amartey on.

My laptop's going a bit weird so I'm going to stop here but it's clear we struggled to create much in the way of chances on our own, I'll look more deeply into it over the weekend and post it here.

[l444ry]

3 hours ago, Stadt said:

Wolves game analysis

I can't be arsed to be highly detailed but I'll do a brief analysis, obviously it's early days yet and it's hard to spot recurring issues across two games and Puel will obviously be trying to correct issues in training.

Useful glossary of tactical terms: https://jadamsftbl.wordpress.com/tactical-terms/

The best detailed tactical analysis site, can be convoluted and esoteric at times: https://spielverlagerung.com

Out of possession:

Generally we played a 442 mid block with Maddison pushing up alongside Vardy to prevent Wolves from building up too easily. We still had issues in this regard as Wolves had a natural overload playing a 343/541. 

Here the overload on Wolves' first line is clear with the 3 CBs against Vardy and Maddison - Neves has dropped as well to further occupy the front two which makes it even easier to Wolves to circulate the ball and by pass the front two - The space they front have to defend is too large. Albrighton steps out to pressure Boly but does it too slowly, in this situation we should press higher collectively or defend more deeply as Boly plays the ball into the channel.

What follows is where Evans gets caught and eventually Moutinho hits the post, there could be multiple reasons as to why, Evans might be rusty due to making his debut after an injury or not familiar enough with the system. On the whole he had a poor first half but improved in the second so it's most likely due to a lack of sharpness. One possible concern is that with Maguire and Evans as the CB partnership we might suffer from a lack of mobility if we continue to play in a mid block without enough pressure from the forwards. One solution would be to play slightly deeper but given how Puel wants to have a greater amount of possession we'll need to improve without the ball in the opposition half, however the number of teams playing a three at the back has decreased significantly since last season so this is relatively unique to the Wolves game.

We improved defensively in the second half, Traore caused issues with his dribbling ability and pace but that was mitigated by reducing the space for him to operate in by bringing Amartey on.

My laptop's going a bit weird so I'm going to stop here but it's clear we struggled to create much in the way of chances on our own, I'll look more deeply into it over the weekend and post it here.

Hard to gauge anything with certainty from your example with no context but front to back defensively in a perfect world is 40 yards. Seems a high line for the back four considering the Wolves player is unchallenged. Great to see some thoughtful analysis Stadt.

[Stadt]

8 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Hard to gauge anything with certainty from your example with no context but front to back defensively in a perfect world is 40 yards. Seems a high line for the back four considering the Wolves player is unchallenged. Great to see some thoughtful analysis Stadt.

We soon sharpened up defensively so I think it’s just a case of being rusty with us having played less than 100 minutes at that point. Long term we’ll probably be playing Benkovic and Soyuncu so we’ll be more capable playing a high line 

[ARM1968]

But does it fuching work?