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RODNEY FERNIO

House subsidence

By RODNEY FERNIO, in General Chat

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joachim1965

joachim1965

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Red Squirrel said:

Very happy to help here.

 

I ran the largest specialist subsidence management business in the UK. 

A buildings policy covers subsidence usually subject to a £1,000 excess (you can usually defray this against doing some redecoration yourself)

If your house has has been built for 15 years then it is unlikely any reputable Insurer should reject your claim 

Subsidence usually occurs for one of 2 reasons

1) Vegetation close to properties sucking moisture from a shrinkable clay soil in a hot summer causing differential movement (hence the cracking you see)

2) Leaking drains where the water removes the fine particles from a granular sub-soil and you see cracking in the same area as the leak

 

The pattern of cracking usually points (geographically) to the cause of the damage and the cracks are larger at the bottom than the top

 

Insurers don't immediately look for get outs contrary to some opinion on here

If the damage is caused by subsidence of the site then they investigate, confirm cover and arrange to have the repairs done

They will ensure the cause is removed ie the vegetation removed or the drains repaired

It is only in extreme cases where there is any need for strengthening of the foundations (underpinning)

 

These days a sensible and pragmatic approach is adopted to this sort of damage. 

There has been an episode of movement

Remove the cause

Repair the cracking usually including some strengthening of the brickwork with resin and horizontal metal bars in the wall itself

The house returned to its pre-movment condition and no ongoing blight

The Insurer will stay on cover and offer cover to any purchaser should you move at any time in the future

 

The Loss Adjusters coming round may well be from one of Cunningham Lindsay, Crawfords, Davies or The Innovation Group

I'd be happy for one of our structural engineers to look at any report that is provided to you if you PM me

 

Don't worry! These issues are well known and easily capable of resolution. 

 

 

 

 

At last the voice of reason from somebody who actually knows what they are talking about.

As I stated in an earlier post , my house insurance covered subsidance subject to £1000 excess.

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Costock_Fox

Costock_Fox

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Red Squirrel said:

Very happy to help here.

 

I ran the largest specialist subsidence management business in the UK. 

A buildings policy covers subsidence usually subject to a £1,000 excess (you can usually defray this against doing some redecoration yourself)

If your house has has been built for 15 years then it is unlikely any reputable Insurer should reject your claim 

Subsidence usually occurs for one of 2 reasons

1) Vegetation close to properties sucking moisture from a shrinkable clay soil in a hot summer causing differential movement (hence the cracking you see)

2) Leaking drains where the water removes the fine particles from a granular sub-soil and you see cracking in the same area as the leak

 

The pattern of cracking usually points (geographically) to the cause of the damage and the cracks are larger at the bottom than the top

 

Insurers don't immediately look for get outs contrary to some opinion on here

If the damage is caused by subsidence of the site then they investigate, confirm cover and arrange to have the repairs done

They will ensure the cause is removed ie the vegetation removed or the drains repaired

It is only in extreme cases where there is any need for strengthening of the foundations (underpinning)

 

These days a sensible and pragmatic approach is adopted to this sort of damage. 

There has been an episode of movement

Remove the cause

Repair the cracking usually including some strengthening of the brickwork with resin and horizontal metal bars in the wall itself

The house returned to its pre-movment condition and no ongoing blight

The Insurer will stay on cover and offer cover to any purchaser should you move at any time in the future

 

The Loss Adjusters coming round may well be from one of Cunningham Lindsay, Crawfords, Davies or The Innovation Group

I'd be happy for one of our structural engineers to look at any report that is provided to you if you PM me

 

Don't worry! These issues are well known and easily capable of resolution. 

 

 

 

 

Good news and i hope it gets sorted.

 

Apologies if my joke offended the OP, was trying to make light of the situation but I’d be mortified if this happened to my house.

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DANGEROUS TIGER

DANGEROUS TIGER

Posted
Posted
On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 19:28, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Thanks Tiger … but things are actually getting worse.

My old dad has got a bleed on the brain and the doctor says he is likely to have serious brain damage. 

Fancy getting blotto but got to make a statement at the police station tomorrow and then down to the Royal

to see the old boy ( so not a good idea ) … but apparently he does not recognise anyone and is talking gibberish.

 

I'm really sorry to hear this. I just hope your Dad improves soon. It must be very worrying for you, and frustrating. It's one of those scenarios where one would love to help, but can't. I truly feel for you, and hope things will turn around quickly for you.

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RODNEY FERNIO

RODNEY FERNIO

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Posted
On ‎09‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 18:45, Red Squirrel said:

Very happy to help here.

 

I ran the largest specialist subsidence management business in the UK. 

A buildings policy covers subsidence usually subject to a £1,000 excess (you can usually defray this against doing some redecoration yourself)

If your house has has been built for 15 years then it is unlikely any reputable Insurer should reject your claim 

Subsidence usually occurs for one of 2 reasons

1) Vegetation close to properties sucking moisture from a shrinkable clay soil in a hot summer causing differential movement (hence the cracking you see)

2) Leaking drains where the water removes the fine particles from a granular sub-soil and you see cracking in the same area as the leak

 

The pattern of cracking usually points (geographically) to the cause of the damage and the cracks are larger at the bottom than the top

 

Insurers don't immediately look for get outs contrary to some opinion on here

If the damage is caused by subsidence of the site then they investigate, confirm cover and arrange to have the repairs done

They will ensure the cause is removed ie the vegetation removed or the drains repaired

It is only in extreme cases where there is any need for strengthening of the foundations (underpinning)

 

These days a sensible and pragmatic approach is adopted to this sort of damage. 

There has been an episode of movement

Remove the cause

Repair the cracking usually including some strengthening of the brickwork with resin and horizontal metal bars in the wall itself

The house returned to its pre-movment condition and no ongoing blight

The Insurer will stay on cover and offer cover to any purchaser should you move at any time in the future

 

The Loss Adjusters coming round may well be from one of Cunningham Lindsay, Crawfords, Davies or The Innovation Group

I'd be happy for one of our structural engineers to look at any report that is provided to you if you PM me

 

Don't worry! These issues are well known and easily capable of resolution. 

 

 

 

 

How good is this site ?

 

Thanks for that … another structural surveyor has kindly been in touch as well by private message.

 

Yes the loss adjuster coming round is from Cunningham Lindsay

 

Will have to wait and see .

 

Amazingly I had some Asian gentleman knock on the door tonight and said he was sorry about the subsidence

but would offer me 80 grand in cash for the property … told him I was not interested but what I forgot to ask him

how he found out …. spooky. 

 

 

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Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

How good is this site ?

 

Thanks for that … another structural surveyor has kindly been in touch as well by private message.

 

Yes the loss adjuster coming round is from Cunningham Lindsay

 

Will have to wait and see .

 

Amazingly I had some Asian gentleman knock on the door tonight and said he was sorry about the subsidence

but would offer me 80 grand in cash for the property … told him I was not interested but what I forgot to ask him

how he found out …. spooky. 

 

 

Feel free to contact me when Cunningham Lindsay have visited. I have specialist subsidence Structural Engineers who can provide advice notwithstanding you have another offer of help.

Cunningham Linday might have to do some ground investigation - digging holes to establish foundation depth and also do some soils sampling to send off to a lab to find out its' composition and how shrinkable it is

You should be provided with a full engineering report detailing the cause and the proposed remedial action

 

By the way who is your Insurer?

 

That approach you received is very suspect - someone has been passing on your personal details which is a serious matter these days. You could alert your Insurer. I presume that only they and their Loss Adjusters Cunningham Lindsay know about the damage? 

 

If you want to know more about subsidence in general I would recommend this book. The first edition is fine and only costs 67p from Amazon

 
 
 
 
 

 

 

 

 

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stripeyfox

stripeyfox

Posted
Posted
On 09/09/2018 at 18:45, Red Squirrel said:

Very happy to help here.

 

I ran the largest specialist subsidence management business in the UK. 

A buildings policy covers subsidence usually subject to a £1,000 excess (you can usually defray this against doing some redecoration yourself)

If your house has has been built for 15 years then it is unlikely any reputable Insurer should reject your claim 

Subsidence usually occurs for one of 2 reasons

1) Vegetation close to properties sucking moisture from a shrinkable clay soil in a hot summer causing differential movement (hence the cracking you see)

2) Leaking drains where the water removes the fine particles from a granular sub-soil and you see cracking in the same area as the leak

 

The pattern of cracking usually points (geographically) to the cause of the damage and the cracks are larger at the bottom than the top

 

Insurers don't immediately look for get outs contrary to some opinion on here

If the damage is caused by subsidence of the site then they investigate, confirm cover and arrange to have the repairs done

They will ensure the cause is removed ie the vegetation removed or the drains repaired

It is only in extreme cases where there is any need for strengthening of the foundations (underpinning)

 

These days a sensible and pragmatic approach is adopted to this sort of damage. 

There has been an episode of movement

Remove the cause

Repair the cracking usually including some strengthening of the brickwork with resin and horizontal metal bars in the wall itself

The house returned to its pre-movment condition and no ongoing blight

The Insurer will stay on cover and offer cover to any purchaser should you move at any time in the future

 

The Loss Adjusters coming round may well be from one of Cunningham Lindsay, Crawfords, Davies or The Innovation Group

I'd be happy for one of our structural engineers to look at any report that is provided to you if you PM me

 

Don't worry! These issues are well known and easily capable of resolution. 

 

 

 

 

I love FoxesTalk. We have our own resident subsidence expert! Well played sir

 

 

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RODNEY FERNIO

RODNEY FERNIO

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Raj said:

LOL!!!

I've nearly pissed myself!

FT humour at its best !!

Actually this subsidence  might be good thing.

A bungalow might be a good idea with my rapidly approaching old age.

And when it sinks below the ground when I'm 92 … well that's the direction I'm heading for anyway.

Edited by RODNEY FERNIO
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The Fox Covert

The Fox Covert

Posted
Posted

Don't think my house is in any danger of subsidence. It is estimated to be 250 years old and quite possibly a good deal older. The bedrock is about 30 inches below the surface of the garden. The ground floor has the original flagstones, screeded over with concrete and 1/2 inch of slate on top. There is a 2 foot concrete bund at the base of the longest wall.

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Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Costock_Fox said:

Genuine question to @Red Squirrel , how common is this? I’ve got a new built and the estate did have loads of problems with drainage so it has got me a little bit concerned.

We are particularly sensitive to cracking in property in the UK which has been fostered by the nervousness of Building Societies and Banks when lending because their surveyors did not know much about it and the wrong action was taken to deal with it, whereas in relative terms its not a massive issue. In normal weather conditions the frequency of this type of claim as reported to Insurers is around .06% compared to anything else that can affect property like Storm, Flood or Burst Pipes. In a normal year (where we don't get a very hot and prolonged summer for example 1976, 2001,2003 and this year) there are about 20,000 claims reported annually and 70% of those won't relate to subsidence of the site. This 70% will be minor defects, like thermal movement, wear/tear, settlement, lintol failure etc.  The average cost of a genuine subsidence claim is in the region of £13K across the UK

 

New builds have to conform to Building Regulations which take into account the type of soil and how shrinkable it is likely to be, and the depth of the foundations is adjusted to take this into consideration. Houses constructed before 1930 only had to have foundations to a couple of feet, now it is 5 or 6. Also you will likely have an NHBC 15 year guarantee as well as your buildings insurance. Leicestershire in general is not a high risk area for subsidence - the risky areas are found more in London and the South East.

 

I suspect your drainage issues will be about the quality of the installation rather than being affected by soil movement and that will be rectified. I would not be concerned. The major damage you might see reported is almost always in high risk areas (not Leicestershire) where a very large tree(s) is affecting a property after a very dry summer by extracting moisture from a clay soil causing it to shrink or when a new property is built on land cleared of trees where the soil type is shrinkable clay which when rehydrated can cause Heave (general uplift of the site on which the house is founded) but this is extremely rare and in very particular circumstances.

 

99% of homeowners on here will never encounter subsidence and if they do it is very likely to be a minor issue - and free advice is available ! 

 

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Dr The Singh

Dr The Singh

Posted
Posted
On 13/09/2018 at 22:54, The Fox Covert said:

Don't think my house is in any danger of subsidence. It is estimated to be 250 years old and quite possibly a good deal older. The bedrock is about 30 inches below the surface of the garden. The ground floor has the original flagstones, screeded over with concrete and 1/2 inch of slate on top. There is a 2 foot concrete bund at the base of the longest wall.

I'm really, genuinely happy for you

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RODNEY FERNIO

RODNEY FERNIO

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Posted

The saga continues.

Just out mowing the lawn and just noticed a large crack in the exterior brick work below the patio doors

and the two large slabs below the patio doors are sloping downwards to where the crack is .

The spirit level confirms this.

Given the fact that the drain pipe goes in to the ground right next to the patio doors … leaking drains from my

untrained eye seems to be the culprit.

If it is … how the hell can this happen on a property that is not even 15 years old ??

 

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Free Falling Foxes

Free Falling Foxes

Posted
Posted
On 13/09/2018 at 22:54, The Fox Covert said:

Don't think my house is in any danger of subsidence. It is estimated to be 250 years old and quite possibly a good deal older. The bedrock is about 30 inches below the surface of the garden. The ground floor has the original flagstones, screeded over with concrete and 1/2 inch of slate on top. There is a 2 foot concrete bund at the base of the longest wall.

They certainly built those jails to last.

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  • 3 weeks later...
RODNEY FERNIO

RODNEY FERNIO

Posted
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Posted

Well the nightmare has just escalated ten fold.

Subsidence has been confirmed and .they say the cause is nearby vegetation

i.e the bloody bush the builders decided to plant next to the house in their infinite wisdom when they built it.

How they can come to this conclusion when Cunningham Lindsay , the loss adjusters, just

send some semi literate bloke with bad body odour around to take a few photographs and speak into some form of audio recorder.

There has been no check on the drains at all !!

Anyway the conclusion seems to be that I have to pay for the removal of the bush and then they will monitor the cracks until 

next Spring before the insurers will pay for any remedial work.

How the surveyor or whoever comes to this conclusion with no proper evidence is beyond me.

Three independent opinions from people in the know , including one kind poster .. a structural surveyor on this forum .. are of the opinion

that the roots are too shallow to cause any kind of damage.

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Trav Le Bleu

Trav Le Bleu

Posted
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, RODNEY FERNIO said:

Well the nightmare has just escalated ten fold.

Subsidence has been confirmed and .they say the cause is nearby vegetation

i.e the bloody bush the builders decided to plant next to the house in their infinite wisdom when they built it.

How they can come to this conclusion when Cunningham Lindsay , the loss adjusters, just

send some semi literate bloke with bad body odour around to take a few photographs and speak into some form of audio recorder.

There has been no check on the drains at all !!

Anyway the conclusion seems to be that I have to pay for the removal of the bush and then they will monitor the cracks until 

next Spring before the insurers will pay for any remedial work.

How the surveyor or whoever comes to this conclusion with no proper evidence is beyond me.

Three independent opinions from people in the know , including one kind poster .. a structural surveyor on this forum .. are of the opinion

that the roots are too shallow to cause any kind of damage.

That is weird. How big is the bush? Lots of people have bushes growing near their house. Trees can be bad news (though in my old house we had an Ash that grew almost as tall as the house before we cut it down, three feet from the back door and it didn't seem to do any harm), but bushes?

 

What does @Red Squirrel think?

 

On the bright side, at least they've said they'll pay.

Edited by Trav Le Bleu
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