Leaks claims Euro Super League talks held by clubs

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, volpeazzurro said:

Absolutely. Let em go. I predict 1, possibly 2 years and the novelty will have worn off,  it just won't be that special compared to the Premiership anymore. Man City struggle to fill the ground for European matches as it is  and I mean no offence to them by that.  If they leave they should only do so in the knowledge that to return will cost an absolute ransom or have to go into the championship in order to fight for promotion. Though possibly the FA will get bought off as well.

That can’t happen because their positions  in the league would have been taken by other clubs, unless the league sizes were to be increased. They would have to re register as a football club and start at the bottom.

[Dan LCFC]

Remember when some of our fans defended playing in that ridiculous International Champions Cup organised by that nobhead American.

[Bayfox]

On 06/11/2018 at 20:02, mozartfox said:

Yep- Thanks I am sure some will find this quite enlightening.

Raises 1 very good point. The handing out of 1 pot between all these clubs that have museums dedicated to success seems a little weird.

 

But the suggestion that the likes of juve and Milan wouldn't or couldn't compete if they had the money seems a little short sighted.

 

Milans or turin becomes the same as the madrid/barca thing. Lifestyle and weather wise how many plump for man city if you can earn the same money?

 

In general however I have felt a world league has been coming for a while now. The world gets smaller all the time and the tv viewer is the king for marketing and advertising companies.

 

The big problem to create the truly global competition they really want is how the **** they make an American/ Arab State and Australian franchise that can become anything close to Man Utd, Barca, Madrid, Boca, River etc.

 

But I think purely based on the fact the sport is now so TV driven we will see something akin to this in my lifetime.

 

The bit where it falls down is it will have to become a closed shop but like the NFL it will end up being effectively a franchise system. If we can't sell out we will move you somewhere we can. 

 

If people in Manchester get bored we just stick you in Dublin for 2 years and when that novelty wears off we will stick you in the states somewhere

[grobyfox1990]

On 07/11/2018 at 20:55, st albans fox said:

Fifa and uefa say that anyone playing in a breakaway league would not be eligible for euros or world cups .........

Infantino is just playing for money. He couldn't care two hoots, he's just annoyed he's not being cut into the action!

[sylofox]

10 hours ago, volpeazzurro said:

Absolutely. Let em go. I predict 1, possibly 2 years and the novelty will have worn off,  it just won't be that special compared to the Premiership anymore. Man City struggle to fill the ground for European matches as it is  and I mean no offence to them by that.  If they leave they should only do so in the knowledge that to return will cost an absolute ransom or have to go into the championship in order to fight for promotion. Though possibly the FA will get bought off as well.

Start in the championship? 

 

Like fvck they start none league conference or whatever its called. They jump ship then they pay the price to return. Fvcking championship. 

[Heathrow fox]

7 hours ago, sylofox said:

Start in the championship? 

 

Like fvck they start none league conference or whatever its called. They jump ship then they pay the price to return. Fvcking championship. 

I’m afraid to tell you that if they left there wouldn’t be a League to come back to.Not in its present state anyway.Most clubs all the way down the chain would be thrown into chaos by the knock on effect.No top six no big tv deal.

 

The Premier League trickles money down in the form of solidarity payments to all clubs in the EFL.It might not be a lot but it’s a life line to a lot of clubs.The EFL tv deal would also take a massive hit.A lot of clubs would go part time.Could Leicester City justify charging £30/£70 for a ticket in a sub standard league?Prices would tumble all the way down the line.

 

Owners of ambitious championship clubs would be off like a shot when the pot of gold is taken away.What would be the point.A lot would go into administration overnight.The likes of us and the West Ham’s etc would also take an almighty shafting.It stin

 

The top six are more powerful then the rest put together,and some.Be grateful that so far they have the good sense to see that everyones stronger together,which maintains the strongest league structure in the world.It stinks I know but that’s the way it is.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Heathrow fox said:

I’m afraid to tell you that if they left there wouldn’t be a League to come back to.Not in its present state anyway.Most clubs all the way down the chain would be thrown into chaos by the knock on effect.No top six no big tv deal.

 

The Premier League trickles money down in the form of solidarity payments to all clubs in the EFL.It might not be a lot but it’s a life line to a lot of clubs.The EFL tv deal would also take a massive hit.A lot of clubs would go part time.Could Leicester City justify charging £30/£70 for a ticket in a sub standard league?Prices would tumble all the way down the line.

 

Owners of ambitious championship clubs would be off like a shot when the pot of gold is taken away.What would be the point.A lot would go into administration overnight.The likes of us and the West Ham’s etc would also take an almighty shafting.It stin

 

The top six are more powerful then the rest put together,and some.Be grateful that so far they have the good sense to see that everyones stronger together,which maintains the strongest league structure in the world.It stinks I know but that’s the way it is.

Oh how silly.

 

Football would stop because  teams left the league.

 

I wonder how football survives in the Congo.

 

Sort yourself out man.

 

And what are these "footballers" going to do become brain surgeons.

[sylofox]

2 minutes ago, FIF said:

Oh how silly.

 

Football would stop because  teams left the league.

 

I wonder how football survives in the Congo.

 

Sort yourself out man.

 

And what are these "footballers" going to do become brain surgeons.

agreed seems some think football only exists because of five sides. 

 

I don't see this happening its a way to screw more money out of the other clubs. Let's be honest our top five if they move could become the bottom five. See how that goes down with sponsors and fans. 

[Dan LCFC]

I'm grateful to them for nothing. They've all acted disgracefully in this regard, they're the ultimate evil of this sport, all the 'elite' clubs.

 

There is no doubting there would be some knock-on effect but all of these things that we're regularly told we should champion... who exactly is the ultimate beneficiary? The standard of the football wouldn't be as high in the short-term but we'd get a better matchday experience in the end I think. It would rid the game of the majority of the parasites for sure.

 

Remember Stillitano after we got into the Champions League, saying how it's bad for football and that they need Manchester United in there. This is the types the game will be rid of, and that can only be a positive.

Edited 9 November 2018 by Dan LCFC

[Fox92]

11 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I’m afraid to tell you that if they left there wouldn’t be a League to come back to.Not in its present state anyway.Most clubs all the way down the chain would be thrown into chaos by the knock on effect.No top six no big tv deal.

 

The Premier League trickles money down in the form of solidarity payments to all clubs in the EFL.It might not be a lot but it’s a life line to a lot of clubs.The EFL tv deal would also take a massive hit.A lot of clubs would go part time.Could Leicester City justify charging £30/£70 for a ticket in a sub standard league?Prices would tumble all the way down the line.

 

Owners of ambitious championship clubs would be off like a shot when the pot of gold is taken away.What would be the point.A lot would go into administration overnight.The likes of us and the West Ham’s etc would also take an almighty shafting.It stin

 

The top six are more powerful then the rest put together,and some.Be grateful that so far they have the good sense to see that everyones stronger together,which maintains the strongest league structure in the world.It stinks I know but that’s the way it is.

People won't stop paying to watch their club home away. Whether it's Leicester City, Luton Town or Aldershot.

[Heathrow fox]

23 minutes ago, FIF said:

Oh how silly.

 

Football would stop because  teams left the league.

 

I wonder how football survives in the Congo.

 

Sort yourself out man.

 

And what are these "footballers" going to do become brain surgeons.

I should imagine footballers in the Congo don’t earn a great deal.I didn’t say football would stop.It would take a massive financial hit though and players wages would fall.Unless you think that sky would pay millions for a league without the big boys in it.

[davieG]

43 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I’m afraid to tell you that if they left there wouldn’t be a League to come back to.Not in its present state anyway.Most clubs all the way down the chain would be thrown into chaos by the knock on effect.No top six no big tv deal.

 

The Premier League trickles money down in the form of solidarity payments to all clubs in the EFL.It might not be a lot but it’s a life line to a lot of clubs.The EFL tv deal would also take a massive hit.A lot of clubs would go part time.Could Leicester City justify charging £30/£70 for a ticket in a sub standard league?Prices would tumble all the way down the line.

 

Owners of ambitious championship clubs would be off like a shot when the pot of gold is taken away.What would be the point.A lot would go into administration overnight.The likes of us and the West Ham’s etc would also take an almighty shafting.It stin

 

The top six are more powerful then the rest put together,and some.Be grateful that so far they have the good sense to see that everyones stronger together,which maintains the strongest league structure in the world.It stinks I know but that’s the way it is.

Undoubtedly any deal for them to leave would involve them in handing money over to whatever structure is left behind. Sure there won’t be as much as now but as most of it goes in player wages they’ll be the ones to be most affected.

 

I suspect we’d see very few English Players in a Euro league.

 

You don’t think the payments the PL pays now  to the lower leagues and the parachute payments were offered voluntarily it was part of the agreement with the FL and the FA when they reluctantly agreed to the formation of the PL.

[Heathrow fox]

30 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

People won't stop paying to watch their club home away. Whether it's Leicester City, Luton Town or Aldershot.

You might be willing to pay top dollar to watch a devalued league but most wouldn’t.Ticket prices would fall in each league.Thats how the market works.

 

Aldershot currently charge £18 to stand and £20 to sit.If you break down an average home crowd of 2000 taking away 800 season tickets who have already paid,and the 300 free tickets they give away  you are left with 900 paying fans.

 

If you factor in 300 reduced tickets(kids oaps etc) you are looking at a takings of £15000ish.Not bad until you realise it costs £12000 just to put a match on re-police electric stewards staff etc.Ok they make a bit on extras,sponsorship food and the rest but you could see how something like this would fuddle a club like Aldershot.

[yorkie1999]

20 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

I should imagine footballers in the Congo don’t earn a great deal.I didn’t say football would stop.It would take a massive financial hit though and players wages would fall.Unless you think that sky would pay millions for a league without the big boys in it.

I bet they get paid more that non footballers, it's all relative, and a house in downtown Kinshasa (one of the capital cities i didn't know so had to look that up) wouldn't be that expensive. And i think sky would still have to pay millions for the premier league as they wouldn't be able to afford a new super league which would have the tv rights owned by some american franchise.

[Heathrow fox]

13 minutes ago, davieG said:

Undoubtedly any deal for them to leave would involve them in handing money over to whatever structure is left behind. Sure there won’t be as much as now but as most of it goes in player wages they’ll be the ones to be most affected.

 

I suspect we’d see very few English Players in a Euro league.

 

You don’t think the payments the PL pays now  to the lower leagues and the parachute payments were offered voluntarily it was part of the agreement with the FL and the FA when they reluctantly agreed to the formation of the PL.

Yes I fully agree I’m not sticking up for them just pointing out that our league structure is the strongest in the world and it’s strong because of the money that flows in from the top.

 

[Guest]

15 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

I should imagine footballers in the Congo don’t earn a great deal.I didn’t say football would stop.It would take a massive financial hit though and players wages would fall.Unless you think that sky would pay millions for a league without the big boys in it.

So all you are really saying is that footballers in the "new" top English division would need to accept less wages. Agreed. what's the big deal in that? Those footballers would rather play football for whatever the wage is than work as a Brickie. Football would continue in England as it does throughout the world.

 

 

15 hours ago, Heathrow fox said:

You might be willing to pay top dollar to watch a devalued league but most wouldn’t.Ticket prices would fall in each league.Thats how the market works.

 

Aldershot currently charge £18 to stand and £20 to sit.If you break down an average home crowd of 2000 taking away 800 season tickets who have already paid,and the 300 free tickets they give away  you are left with 900 paying fans.

 

If you factor in 300 reduced tickets(kids oaps etc) you are looking at a takings of £15000ish.Not bad until you realise it costs £12000 just to put a match on re-police electric stewards staff etc.Ok they make a bit on extras,sponsorship food and the rest but you could see how something like this would fuddle a club like Aldershot.

 

The quality of football at Aldershot won't change at all will it? So why would you not be willing to pay what you were before? Most likely that the TV revenue for Aldershot won't change that much either. Interest may even increase as Aldershot would have a better chance of winning the league title and Cups than they do in this oligopoly.

 

Of course a change in ticket prices could be a good thing anyway. Reduce the price at Aldershot to£ and fill the stadium.

 

I understand your point I just thing you got a bit carried away. 5 clubs leaving the Prem will not be catastrophic for Football in general or English football in particular. It may even help the game by removing the ludicrous fees that these teams are paying for players (whilst still allowing them to sell any top players for stupid fees to the Eurogiants) re-setting the spiralling wage structures that have a good chance of harming the league and returning local football to the local people. I guess some Arse and Chelsea fans may even decide to watch Orient or Brentford home games instead of travelling to Munich on a wet Thursday midnight ko (so that it's reasonable for Asians and Americans) on board a ryanair flight in February. 

[Corky]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46242455

 

That is good of them. 

 

Not interested but interested enough to attend the meetings.

[Gazza M]

I'm not bothered now we have won the legitimate English top flight. Let the big clubs go. Would make it more interesting for the other 86 clubs in England. 

[davieG]

31 minutes ago, Corky said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46242455

 

That is good of them. 

 

Not interested but interested enough to attend the meetings.

I’d suggest the talks are not about leaving to create a Euro super league but to create and alternative to the CL which is independent of UEFA like the PL with the FA and is a closed shop. 

[davieG]

Proposed plans for a breakaway European Super League are "fiction" - according to the two most powerful officials in European football.

Uefa president Aleksander Ceferin and Andrea Agnelli, the chairman of the influential European Club Association (ECA) which represents over 200 leading teams, say they are "united" - despite recently leaked documents claiming secret talks had been held over the creation of a new elite league.

 

"The Super League will not happen. It is in a way a fiction now or a dream," said Ceferin.

Agnelli, who is also chairman of Juventus - one of the teams reported to be a potential founding member of the Super League - added: "I can confirm we have never seen, never discussed, never been involved in the creation of this document.

 

"We are fully engaged with Uefa in shaping the game going forward."

Speaking exclusively to BBC Sport, Ceferin and Agnelli also outlined:

Their plans to reform European football from 2024 onwards.
How a revised football calendar could see less domestic football and more European ties played.
Why qualification for Europe must not just be for the elite.
Will there be a breakaway?

German publication Der Speigel claims to have documents which show a new Super League could be up and running by 2021 - featuring the biggest clubs from Spain, Italy, Germany, England and France.

However, Ceferin and Agnelli are adamant that the top clubs will stay within Uefa and that detailed talks are under way to find "solutions" - including changes to the format of the Champions League to secure a more lucrative broadcasting deal.

"We have some ideas. All I can say is that any Super League is out of the question. Participation stays. And everybody will have an opportunity to compete in every European competition," said Ceferin.

 

So what does it mean for European competitions?

 

A new third European competition with 32 teams will be rubber-stamped at a Uefa meeting in Dublin early next month.

So with the Champions League, Europa League and the new third contest, a total of 96 teams will compete once pre-qualifying is completed.

Cerefin says it will be the "beginning of wider European competition", and that clubs and national associations "appreciate it".

 

Referencing the likes of Celtic, Porto, Benfica, Ajax and Anderlecht, Agnelli added: "It will be our duty to safeguard the great heritages of European football but on the other side I think we are very well aware that we have to safeguard markets, we have to think about upcoming markets.

"We have to think about Poland. We have to think about [countries like] Turkey, we have to think about Russia. Fans can rest assured that if we put our hands to making a new product it's because we want to make sure that fans across Europe engage."

 

Will the rich just get richer?

Both men reject the suggestion that the dominance of Europe's top teams is being reinforced by these new competition structures.

"The dogma of the dream has to stay alive, because it is the foundation of European sports," says Agnelli.

Ceferin says: "Unfortunately in the world many times it happens that the rich become richer. I think we are one of the rare organisations in the world that tackles this problem.

"We know that we have to slow the gap [between rich clubs and the rest] because probably it will be hard to stop completely.

"And I'm not sure if we want to have everyone equal without intervention. I think that wouldn't be the right approach because if you are doing a good job, you're working a lot, trying to do something, you have to be rewarded for that.

"But 'know your place' is not fair to say. You have to compete, you have to have results to qualify for the top competition. If you don't have results it would be a strange competition. You decide it by sport results, it's the only way."

 

Why do they think change is needed?

Nothing will actually change before 2024 when the existing competition arrangements expire.

Agnelli says the aim is for every club to increase their international exposure through more European ties - while Cerefin says they are "trying to find a solution together".

"The best platforms can only come through international competitions and that is why increasing participation increasing inclusion it is key to all of us," he added.

"Now the most relevant games are the top of the ladder games. If you look at the Champions League final in comparison to the Super Bowl it beats it by a factor of 1.5 to 1.

"So the spectators of that game are on a global scale. We have to build on that to make sure we have the resources to allocate throughout Europe to allow every single club, in every single European country, to have a proper international platform."

 

Does that mean less domestic football then?

Both men declined to give specific detail on the potential changes to European football, given the ongoing negotiations with clubs, leagues and associations.

But if European fixtures increase then an already packed football calendar will need comprehensive revision.

The ECA wants to see the international confederation tournaments, such as the European Championships and Afcon, all played in the summer of the same year. Guaranteed rest periods for players is also high on the agenda.

And Agnelli's idea for a "rebalancing" of European games over domestic games is likely to cause some controversy - although both officials were keen to point out that they are simply at an "idea stage".

"Evidently if you want to have an overall rebalancing of European football and more international [European] football, all that would have to go hand in hand with a reduction of domestic games," says Agnelli.

"But most importantly it is harmonising. Today you take England, for example, that has two national cups. A team potentially plays 53 domestic games.

"Then you take Germany where the maximum number of games is 43 because there are two fewer teams in the league and there is only one cup. So that is 10 games difference. Is it logical?

"There's a whole system of anomalies that have to be addressed. It might mean in certain leagues increasing the amount of games. It's not just about reducing, it's about making it a level playing field, which is very important."

 

What's next?

Ceferin and Agnelli will travel to Brussels on Tuesday to meet the European Commissioner for Sport, Tibor Navracsics.

Cerefin said: "We want to show that our vision of the future of football is, let's say, similar. It's not completely the same. We [Uefa and the ECA] have some disagreements from time to time but we firmly believe in the European sports model together.

"We think that the European football can go further only if we stay together, unified. If you want to develop football you have to stay together.

"Europe has problems with unity these days - and football, as one of the biggest powers, should lead this unity. That's our opinion."

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46259269

[purpleronnie]

Do fans of the clubs likely to be involved want this to happen?  I wouldn't.

[KingsX]

These people aren’t fools to lay any cards on the table.  But one underlying principle looks clear.  The biggest clubs want less of the “nuisance” of playing domestic minnows, so more of their resources can go toward high-profile matches which will generate revenue from the huge global audience.

 

What might that look like in terms of domestic changes?

 

Farewell, League Cup.  (Turn off the life support.)  Or at least farewell to PL participation.

 

Restructured FA Cup, with byes to the round of 16 for the PL top eight? … To be played in Asia, North America, etc. with final at Wembley?

 

Down to 16 or 18 clubs in the PL?

[davieG]

9 minutes ago, KingsX said:

These people aren’t fools to lay any cards on the table.  But one underlying principle looks clear.  The biggest clubs want less of the “nuisance” of playing domestic minnows, so more of their resources can go toward high-profile matches which will generate revenue from the huge global audience.

 

What might that look like in terms of domestic changes?

 

Farewell, League Cup.  (Turn off the life support.)  Or at least farewell to PL participation.

 

Restructured FA Cup, with byes to the round of 16 for the PL top eight? … To be played in Asia, North America, etc. with final at Wembley?

 

Down to 16 or 18 clubs in the PL?

Absolutely no doubt that will be the long term result of this but it will be drip fed little by little hoping we don't notice it.

 

As someone said in another post

 

Walkers Bowl - protest focused on the least acceptable part Bowl so we end up with the sponsored Walkers Stadium when most fans would have preferred a name reflecting the location or the Club's history.

Now a sponsored Stadium name is accepted as the 'norm'

[davieG]

http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/six-reasons-to-oppose-a-european-super-league

 

Six reasons to oppose a European Super League

How much money is enough money? The concept of a European super league has been around since the late-80s but the idea that won’t die has once again resurfaced – this time led by Juventus chairman Andrea Agnelli (above) and the European Club Association (ECA).

• Six reasons to oppose a European Super League

What are they after? Perhaps unsurprisingly, the primary motivation behind the proposals appears to be money, with many of the bigger clubs across Europe looking enviously at the worldwide television revenues secured by the Premier League in particular.

Agnelli apparently hates the idea of upstarts like Leicester City having the temerity to play in his illustrious European competition, so is now looking at ways to guarantee participation for the big clubs and the TV money that comes with that – and to exclude smaller clubs who happen to qualify by winning their domestic leagues, like Leicester City did back in 2016.

Working in cahoots with UEFA the self-appointed big clubs are planning to create a new format for European club competitions from the 2024-2025 season onwards. This would involve a Champions League of 32 teams, a Europa League of 32 teams, and a Europa League 2 composed of 64 teams – with a maximum of five teams from the same national league per competition.

So far, so familiar. But there are some crucial changes being proposed that would have a huge knock-on effect on English football as we know it. First of all, instead of eight groups of four teams each playing in the autumn, they’re going for four groups of eight – so that means instead of each participating club playing six games between September and December, they’d play fourteen.

Adding that number of European games into an already crowded fixture calendar would inevitably have an impact – it would signal the end of the League Cup, the FA Cup would have to become primarily a midweek competition without replays, and the Premier League would have to reduce in size to 18 or even 16 clubs – with a knock-on effect on the number of clubs promoted from the Championship each year.

There’s even been talk of the European fixtures taking place at weekends, pushing Premier League fixtures into midweek slots – which would make life even more difficult for away fans in particular, and destroy the traditional culture of weekend league football.

The next big change would be that a club’s place in the new-fangled elite European competition would no longer come from success in their domestic league.

Once initial membership of the new Champions League is established, then there’d be promotion and relegation of eight teams from the 32 at the end of each season – with the four semi-finalists of the Europa League being promoted, and only four places available to clubs based on domestic performance.

With the five English teams unlikely to finish outside the top 24, there’d be no prospect of any other English team qualifying again.

Good riddance to them?

Why should you, a fan of say a League One club following England away, care about the avarice of Juventus, Bayern Munich and their ilk? Isn’t it a case of good riddance to them, get rid of the big six and we can have a more competitive league without them?

Sadly, the prospect of so much broadcasting money going to the European elite clubs would have a hugely negative impact right down the English football pyramid.

If they start playing Champions League matches at weekends then inevitably the blackout of televised matches at 3:00pm on a Saturday will soon be a thing of the past, meaning that all down the pyramid clubs will be competing directly against televised football.

Financial impact on lower leagues

If these proposals come to fruition, the football pyramid in England and Wales would stand to lose billions of pounds, putting the very fabric of our football culture and the weekend matchday routines in jeopardy.
Champions League revenue is currently the biggest factor distorting the competitiveness in the Premier League, and the ECA-UEFA reforms would distort that even further – with the ‘big six’ retaining a bigger share of TV money and solidarity payments down the leagues drying up.

With the potential for a drastic reduction in the Premier League’s broadcast income, the money that filters down in the form of solidarity payments would take a significant hit: last season, Championship clubs shared £72.6 million, League One clubs £16.3 million and League Two clubs £10.9 million of Premier League TV income. The loss of this solidarity money could push a number of EFL clubs over the edge financially.

The future: fans can have decisive voice

This isn’t the first time that greed has threatened to undermine the traditional principles of league football – remember Game 39? - and it won’t be the last. But history shows us that these plans can be beaten – we defeated Game 39, and we can defeat this. 

We’ll be at the forefront of that campaign, along with our colleagues at Football Supporters’ Europe. As we learn more about the ECA and UEFA’s plans, we’ll have campaign actions that many of you will be keen to get involved in – whether that’s lobbying your own club, writing to leagues or holding a banner in the stands – there’ll be ways for anyone to get involved.

Six reasons to oppose a European Super League

At a meeting of Premier League fan groups convened by the Football Supporters’ Federation in May 2019 there was unanimous opposition to the concept of a super league AND unanimous support for these six principles.

1. Promotion and relegation based on sporting performance - from the bottom of the pyramid to qualification for Europe
2. No to closed leagues or franchise football – qualify on results, not through history or heritage
3. Weekends are for domestic leagues – protect fan culture, home and away. No live broadcasts on Saturdays at 3:00pm
4. We want competitive leagues – no to even more concentration of wealth and on-going domination by a fixed few top clubs
5. Domestic football comes first – protect the pyramid and cup competitions
6. Share the wealth – the money from elite football should be shared across the whole game

A version of this article first appeared in Free Lions 166.

[justfoxes]

On 07/11/2018 at 11:58, Jack1993 said:

Calling their bluff is an excellent idea, as the article suggests, I think they would all sh1t the bed and stay once told that they can't come back 

So when they find out that it’s a complete failure and they want back in then Hitting them both in the pocket with a huge league reintroduction payment and making them re enter the league system with a 30point deduction at the bottom of Division 1 they may think twice, greed is a terrible thing !!