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2 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

The way the word ‘lazy’ is so casually attributed to black players rather than white is something to perhaps consider....

I don't agree with that Swan, I clearly recall the lazy tag being labelled at Le Tissier,  Hoddle and other players of their ilk who didn't run round like mad men. I will go on the record and say I think Kelechi is lazy, that is my opinion and it is not based on colour, age, sexuality or religion!

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On 27/11/2018 at 16:08, Stadt said:

We do we always appoint cis gender old white men as managers :mad:

Yes,  and to date only Male players in the first team.:mad:

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2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Only if there is some serious evidence for it, no one ever accuses Wes Morgan or Hamza Choudary of laziness, no one ever accused N'Golo Kante of it.

 

When I grew up in the 90's it seemed to be the other way around, Philpott and Oldfield were considered our lazy players and Mark Blake was a fans favourite and workhorse in midfield. 

 

Demarai Gray will look lazy when compared to Mark Albrighton, Kelechi Iheanacho will look lazy compared to Jamie Vardy. 

 

Maybe it's just a case of that at this point in time we have a couple of very lazy black players in the squad.

There’s a long history of serious evidence for it Matt. We can talk about Ron Atkinson’s comments, laziness being a racial stereotype attached to black and Mexican people, terms like Porch Monkeys. And to call Gray a very lazy black player is far from the mark and opportunist in your narrative.

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about LCFC first team but also the wider forums comments on signing players and commenting on players from other clubs. Laziness has long been used as a racially motivated cultural stereotype and you saying that there isn’t any serious evidence for it is laughable and doesn’t make it not the case.

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On 27/11/2018 at 18:20, Vardinio'sCat said:

 

Ian Wright is doing a documentary about racism in footy on ITV, which sounds like a really good reminder of why this kind of thing is still necessary. Surely you support something like Kick it Out, so we are only really talking about which groups merit some extra support, given the historical prejudices.

 

Didn't we see the former Welsh rugby captain took a beating for all the wrong reasons last week? Clearly there is plenty of work still to do.

 

I can understand some of the frustration with the seemingly endless stream of marginalised groups demanding special attention, but then society marginalised the majority of the population back in the day, and these things need to be addressed. Not all kids are brought up in decent homes, so I think there is still a need for this kind of openess and inclusivity.

 

I guess we all want this not to be needed, and it is more a question of timing. I do agree that these efforts have to be well designed to be effective, and all too often things do get terribly 'preachy'.

 

As you pointed out we already have the " kick it out " programme. Anyone heard to make racist comments will be banned by the club  and no one is now treated differently by the club or any club in terms of physical or mental disabilities, And Gender discrimination is no longer tolerated ( note the number of female pundits on all the sports coverage ) So I struggle to understand what this is all about? You are never going to completely stamp out prejudice it's what humans are about, so what is this aiming to achieve? it's very vague and sets out no particular goal at all ?

Edited by Bunyip

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On 28/11/2018 at 19:17, purpleronnie said:

 

 

Ignoring it by simply not talking about it won't solve anything.

 

But there can be more productive ways to talk about it.

Ok, let us talk about it. What exactly is this group set out to do? I mean specifically?

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11 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

There’s a long history of serious evidence for it Matt. We can talk about Ron Atkinson’s comments, laziness being a racial stereotype attached to black and Mexican people, terms like Porch Monkeys. And to call Gray a very lazy black player is far from the mark and opportunist in your narrative.

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about LCFC first team but also the wider forums comments on signing players and commenting on players from other clubs. Laziness has long been used as a racially motivated cultural stereotype and you saying that there isn’t any serious evidence for it is laughable and doesn’t make it not the case.

This is a Leicester City consultation, not a UN convention. I doubt the intention is to sit there discussing cultural stereotypes developed over centuries. Why do you think lots of our fans call Kelechi Iheanahco lazy but never accuse Jamie Vardy of it? You also need to bear in mind how multiracial our fans base is, I'm certain it's not just white people shouting that some players are lazy.

 

If you think it's because of racism that's your call, but I doubt you'll get many people agreeing with you.

 

Even if you are right, which you almost certainly aren't, what on earth do you do about it? Force our fans to shout for Vardy to chase things down, ban people from the ground if the don't announce to people around them that Iheanacho has put in a shift today?

 

People are going to have opinions and sometimes that opinion will be thinking black players are lazy. No amount of social engineering is going to change that.

Edited by MattP
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2 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I hope you didnt just assume the gender of all of our players?! :o:mad:

Are you accusing me of talking bollocks ?

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Just now, Bunyip said:

Ok, let us talk about it. What exactly is this group set out to do? I mean specifically?

I would be careful as the racist tag will be unfurled Bunyip :P.I fully agree that racism or overt discrimination should not be tolerated, however the fear of not being able to have a joke or some banter without it being over analysed and accusations levelled is also getting too much. Maybe there could be a group for the misunderstood children of the 40s 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s etc 

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4 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

There you go again with the expressions of tyrannical patriarchy :nono:

Nothing of the sort. It was a tyrannical pun and you will like it. 

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6 hours ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

I would be careful as the racist tag will be unfurled Bunyip :P.I fully agree that racism or overt discrimination should not be tolerated, however the fear of not being able to have a joke or some banter without it being over analysed and accusations levelled is also getting too much. Maybe there could be a group for the misunderstood children of the 40s 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s etc 

Or a group for misunderstood posters on here. I'll be the chairman.:thumbup: Or we could have an enlightenment group for the 40s 50s 60s 70s 80s  who simply cannot understand 

the thin-skinned brainwashed over sensitive winging 90s 2000s kids of today?

Edited by Bunyip
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6 minutes ago, Bluetintedspecs said:

Totally agree Matt and I actually say the ones so offended by this are the ones potentially with the problem. I'm not seeing colour when I see Kelechi as lazy I just see lazy, my opinion and I'm entitled to it!

I dont actually think the guy is lazy as such. He looks like he has no conviction in what he's doing at the moment

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28 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

There’s a long history of serious evidence for it Matt. We can talk about Ron Atkinson’s comments, laziness being a racial stereotype attached to black and Mexican people, terms like Porch Monkeys. And to call Gray a very lazy black player is far from the mark and opportunist in your narrative.

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about LCFC first team but also the wider forums comments on signing players and commenting on players from other clubs. Laziness has long been used as a racially motivated cultural stereotype and you saying that there isn’t any serious evidence for it is laughable and doesn’t make it not the case.

Ron Atkinson was not a racist and numerous  black players have gone on the record to say that, Big Ron was an innovative inclusive manager who gave numerous black players their opportunities  to shine in the game at a time when there were major issues, for me this is a prime example of wrongful interpretation.

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9 hours ago, lcfc sheff said:

Particularly some have a hatred for Nigerian players.

Really? Where's your evidence of this?


If I'm being honest, I've found N'didi to be extremely poor this season. Iheanacho to have been atrocious since we have signed him and prior to that, I found Musa to have been a disappointment. Would this be classed as hatred or would it be an honest assessment of three footballers?

 

The list of players who have received criticism this season and throughout the years is endless. Call me naïve but in all the years I've been on this message board, I can't think of a comment where someone has hatred towards a player due to where they were born or their skin colour.

Edited by leicesterlad1989
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3 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I dont actually think the guy is lazy as such. He looks like he has no conviction in what he's doing at the moment

No conviction, lack of effort eg running into space/ the box to try and make himself available for a goal scoring opportunity is a flowery way of saying lazy for me!

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12 minutes ago, leicesterlad1989 said:

Really? Where's your evidence of this?


If I'm being honest, I've found N'didi to be extremely poor this season. Iheanacho to have been atrocious since we have signed him and prior to that, I found Musa to have been a disappointment. Would this be classed as hatred or would it be an honest assessment of three footballers?

 

The list of players who have received criticism this season and throughout the years is endless. Call me naïve but in all the years I've been on this message board, I can't think of a comment where someone has hatred towards a player due to where they were born or their skin colour.

I’ve seen people comment it, usually get deleted by the mods which is understandable. I will screenshot from

now on and post in this thread once the next dodgy comment comes across. 

 

And you’re not naive, just perhaps aren’t looking.

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It all reminds me of another very lazy player. Not a City player but one I watched when seeing another league game a few years ago, with friends. I've just googled the chap and he's now approaching the twilight of his career at AFC Wimbledon. He is white.

 

You could see that the player had loads of skill. A great passer of the ball and very good at free kicks but the team's fans were constantly on his back, as he strolled around the pitch. I remember in this game the couple of times he ran very quickly were firstly to chase a ball that was obviously going into touch and secondly to harangue the referee. Obviously the fans noticed this too...

 

He's probably had a half decent career but in no way lived up to his potential. His fault.

 

I digress and it's off topic but just as an example of how fans don't like idle players, no matter their colour.

 

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Just to clarify, i didn’t bring this thread back up again due to anyone being called lazy, as I feel that isn’t an issue on this forum. We know if a player is lazy or not and generally people would get called out for it on site if a player was in fact not lazy and it is instead some sort of bias.

 

However, although I can’t find the comment (presumably deleted which is fair enough) someone had stated something along the lines of Nigerian players being bad as “it’s in their blood”. Comments like that, I have a problem with. 

 

 

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59 minutes ago, Swan Lesta said:

There’s a long history of serious evidence for it Matt. We can talk about Ron Atkinson’s comments, laziness being a racial stereotype attached to black and Mexican people, terms like Porch Monkeys. And to call Gray a very lazy black player is far from the mark and opportunist in your narrative.

 

I wasn’t specifically talking about LCFC first team but also the wider forums comments on signing players and commenting on players from other clubs. Laziness has long been used as a racially motivated cultural stereotype and you saying that there isn’t any serious evidence for it is laughable and doesn’t make it not the case.

I get this but I think it's off the mark to assume that fans are being racist because they, for instance, describe Iheanacho as putting in lazy performances.

 

Regarding casual racism/stereotypes, in my experience it has usually been the case that black players are often praised for being "fast, physical, strong" etc but never for having "great vision" or "football intelligence" etc. Some people might not see this, as in both cases they are positive attributes but it's something I've noticed commentators do since I was a kid. Despite this, I wouldn't say that it was wrong to call a black player fast or strong just because there is this historical stereotype. Sometimes it just is objectively true that a player is quick and sometimes it is just objectively true that a player is lazy or puts in a lazy performance. Whether someone thinks that a player is quick or lazy because of their ethnicity is a different question.

 

In Kelechi's case it's honestly hard to say that he is only receiving this kind of criticism regarding his performances because he is black. I don't think his ethnicity has anything to do with it (but maybe that's just because I surround myself with others who don't make racist comments). People say he is lazy because he doesn't put a shift in on the pitch and the stats would probably bear that out. You don't hear that about Ndidi, Mendy, Ricardo, Morgan, Kante etc and there's a good reason why. The only way for us to really know what difference Nacho's ethnicity makes with regards to the perception of him being lazy is if we had a white player who performed identically to him. That is impossible of course but I remember that Bendtner used to get a lot of flack at Arsenal for being both ineffective and lazy (Ozil likewise), people often viewed Berbatov as being a bit lazy too but he always scored and so his perceived lack of effort was always forgiven.

 

In my opinion, the worst way to move forwards on issues like these are to try and clamp down on any criticism of BAME players because of the potential for such criticism to coincide with any historical prejudices. Given that we are all beings of equal moral worth, we should all be equally prone to praise and blame, and to take that away from BAME players is actually to privilege white players over them. It produces a narrative that "only white players can handle criticism", and it simultaneously sets up BAME players as perpetual victims irrespective of whether that criticism is coming from a place of genuine critique or one of bigotry. 

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On 27/11/2018 at 17:20, Peckfortonfox said:

Why do some groups of people need to be recognised/treated differently??

 

surley we are all just football fans

Everyone being treated equally is the exact point of the group. X 

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38 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Just to clarify, i didn’t bring this thread back up again due to anyone being called lazy, as I feel that isn’t an issue on this forum. We know if a player is lazy or not and generally people would get called out for it on site if a player was in fact not lazy and it is instead some sort of bias.

 

However, although I can’t find the comment (presumably deleted which is fair enough) someone had stated something along the lines of Nigerian players being bad as “it’s in their blood”. Comments like that, I have a problem with. 

 

 

Any labelling generalisation is plain ignorant Sheff and I'm with you on that. I also think being fearful of expressing an honest ability based opinion because of said persons colour, age , religion or sexuality is also very wrong. Yes I'm white,Christian straight old git but if someone thought I was a lazy old git I would take there opinion based on me not working hard as opposed to the other factors. So why if that person is black, Asian,  Gay, Lesbian , Muslim, Sikh or Buddhist etc etc should an honest opinion (as long as it is not deliberately and overtly offensive) be generally labelled as racist, homophobic etc?

 

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