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1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

Kranky is banging on again for independence ....     I’d let her have it this time ...   but make sure it’s a hard scexit ...

 

 

What? Skeggie wants independence now?! This mess just gets worse.....

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Stephen Bush of the New Statesman seems to be one of the most balanced and informed Brexit analysts.

 

He reckons that May is winning the public PR battle with these "cross-party negotiations", while trying to run down the clock to use fear of No Deal to scare MPs into supporting her deal... 

But that she risks losing the parliamentary battle as a lot of Tory cabinet/junior ministers are close to rebellion about this tactic, whereas the larger number of anti-No Deal Labour MPs are showing few signs of blinking.....yet.

 

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/01/her-brexit-stand-jeremy-corbyn-theresa-may-winning-pr-war-losing-her-mps

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15 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

 

And this from James Kirkup sums up my feelings towards the ultra-Brexiteers but in a kinder way

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/01/brexiteers-are-destroying-their-own-dream/

I am a bit disappointed in you on that one @Kopfkino and surprised i am able to disagree with you so badly.

 

I am also disappointed by james kirkup (who i have never heard of)

 

His opening paragraph is worthy of respect and as a leaver, that is the least i expect from our elected representatives. However, i fear that reader and writer bias has been spectacularly overlooked on this one.

 

It reads to me (with an obviouy different personal bias) that the moderates that the brexiteers hope to sway are saying do what i want or we wont do it at all, and then goes on to prove why that cannot be upheld.

 

In my personal opinion, the only way we will remain "permanently" is through a second referendum, which for the reasons he so eloquently explains, looks highly unlikely. (This is my personal biggest fear in this whole fiasco)

 

The alternatives are, agree with may, again explained why it "aint gonna happen"

 

The only other choice, abd rightly pointed out, by default, looks thr likelier choice.

 

Again he points out why that "aint gonna happen" which leaves a compmete stalemate, because something is going to happen.

 

The most likely result is either to agree an extension, or revoke article 50, but either of these can only be temporary subject to either a peoples vote, or more planning for a no deal.

 

It will largely be decided by how much hardball eu want to play, whebmn our parliament finally get their act together and agree what "we" actually want, when they realise we have no choice other than to leave on a no deal if they dont give us the conditions that surely must be our new "red lines"

 

It could easily go any of the 3 ways but my logic tells me that eu HAVE TO listen, or we HAVE TO leave with no deal.

 

From your previous post that i hadnt got around to responding to:-

 

"It'snot the EU punishing us, it's that you can't just haveopen borders without formal governance and its the way the EU operates anyway, the EU uses standards as protectionism. "

That reads to me that they are punishing us. This brexit malarkey changes everything and could easily start the new world order. If eu continue to bury their head in the sand, i genuinely believe we should go for a no deal, but hopefully cpmmon sense will orevail somewhere along the line.

 

My moneys on a middle ground. An eventual better deal getting around the sticking points of mays shit deal and avoids the worst effects of a no deal.

 

As for the detail, thats their ****ing job, not mine. The sooner they get their heads out of their arses posturing and getting on with fixing this shitstorm, the better.

 

Tell me if im missing anyyhing obvious but not the minute detail, im more of a bigger picture kind of guy.

Edited by gw_leics772
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14 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

If you’re not going to be sensible I’m not going to talk to you ...   :)

 

Robo bloody cop indeed !!

What a thread, all this in between a serious discussion on brexit.

 

Its like having viz as the comic section in the financial Times ??????

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5 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

Perhaps Phil should stop charging about and relax a bit more ...   get a hobby ...   get a job as a part time actor maybe ...     any ideas of a part he could play ?? ...   

 

 

 

 

28598152-970D-4C8D-BB92-933703CC0A59.jpeg

Maybe the media should stop making a huge story out of **** all. A 93 year old bloke on his way to Morrisons gets t-boned because he's incapable of being aware of what's going on around him. Happens every day.

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Wonder what will happen if there is a second referendum or yet another bloody general election in terms of voter turn out ?

I won't ever vote again and every other person I have spoken to is of the same opinion … all basically sick to death of politicians

and the system in general.

Edited by RODNEY FERNIO
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They've caused their own problems by having a badly thought through referendum on a question that was waaaaaay too simple to deal with such a complex matter and then, rather than just turn round and admit this, everybody has doubled down, closed their eyes and hoped we're going to somehow magically get through this mess.

 

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7 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

They've caused their own problems by having a badly thought through referendum on a question that was waaaaaay too simple to deal with such a complex matter and then, rather than just turn round and admit this, everybody has doubled down, closed their eyes and hoped we're going to somehow magically get through this mess.

 

Yeah. It needed compromise from the start, and for people to come out and admit that the referendum was a mess. But it's descended into tribalism as it often does in the UK. 

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51 minutes ago, Parafox said:

Maybe the media should stop making a huge story out of **** all. A 93 year old bloke on his way to Morrisons gets t-boned because he's incapable of being aware of what's going on around him. Happens every day.

 

I’d hazard a guess it’s getting all this media attention cus he’s married to the Queen of England ...     :)

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So ...  Brexit ...    surely it’s getting clearer now ...

 

No time to have a general election ...    no time to go back out and have a second vote ...   no way anyone will agree on a new exit proposal ....    or the one May proposed ...     so, why don’t we tell the eu let’s agree on a plan that we can get through or we leave with no agreement ...   we all know that the eu don’t want that (no deal) to happen, probably more than us !    Sit back ..   plan what to do with no deal and let them (the eu) decide what happens next.   Hold nerve, keep cards close to chest, and don’t blink first.

 

Please tell me what im missing ...

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12 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

I’d hazard a guess it’s getting all this media attention cus he’s married to the Queen of England ...     :)

 

Well like Muzzett said ..   he ought to have a chauffeur ..   he’s been given the gypsies warning and luckily no one was badly hurt ...   this time ...

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One last item from today’s news ...     the Iceman gets a whole of life sentence ...   I quite agree ..   but why, sometimes, do people who rape and murder children NOT get whole of life sentences ?? ...     nasty scumbag hires a nasty scumbag to kill a nasty scumbag, fair enough ...   but isn’t the other crime worse ?? .... 

 

 

ABD1C1E6-7D4C-4662-8465-7AABA403B897.jpeg

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1 hour ago, Countryfox said:

 

So ...  Brexit ...    surely it’s getting clearer now ...

 

No time to have a general election ...    no time to go back out and have a second vote ...   no way anyone will agree on a new exit proposal ....    or the one May proposed ...     so, why don’t we tell the eu let’s agree on a plan that we can get through or we leave with no agreement ...   we all know that the eu don’t want that (no deal) to happen, probably more than us !    Sit back ..   plan what to do with no deal and let them (the eu) decide what happens next.   Hold nerve, keep cards close to chest, and don’t blink first.

 

Please tell me what im missing ...

We've told you what you're missing about five times but you don't appear to read anything, certainly nothing involving facts, or you wouldn't think that was a good idea.

 

I'm going to stop there for fear of getting banned again.

Edited by Toddybad
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53 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

We've told you what you're missing about five times but you don't appear to read anything, certainly nothing involving facts, or you wouldn't think that was a good idea.

 

I'm going to stop there for fear of getting banned again.

 

Sorry Toddy who’s this ‘we’ that’s told me 5 times ? ...   I’ve reread all your posts and can’t find anything except condescending remarks about those you don’t agree with and several comments on a No Deal being the end of the world.  You also mention a type of deal that you might prefer but how can we achieve that if we have no bargaining power whatsoever.  You also have mentioned that you don’t really want to post in this thread but then go on to merrily keep putting in post after post.  Or am I still missing something ?

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26 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Sorry Toddy who’s this ‘we’ that’s told me 5 times ? ...   I’ve reread all your posts and can’t find anything except condescending remarks about those you don’t agree with and several comments on a No Deal being the end of the world.  You also mention a type of deal that you might prefer but how can we achieve that if we have no bargaining power whatsoever.  You also have mentioned that you don’t really want to post in this thread but then go on to merrily keep putting in post after post.  Or am I still missing something ?

You keep asking if you're missing something but don't respond to points raised to answer that question.

 

Why do you think the EU would be worse off than the UK in a no deal scenario?

 

If we went down the no deal route we would have no bargaining power whatsoever. There's a reason even the WTO themselves predict it would be disastrous for us. 

 

Simply ignoring the answers and then continuing to ask the same questions isn't really a basis for continued learning.

 

Anyway, I'll leave you to question others.

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30 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

You keep asking if you're missing something but don't respond to points raised to answer that question.

 

Why do you think the EU would be worse off than the UK in a no deal scenario?

 

If we went down the no deal route we would have no bargaining power whatsoever. There's a reason even the WTO themselves predict it would be disastrous for us. 

 

Simply ignoring the answers and then continuing to ask the same questions isn't really a basis for continued learning.

 

Anyway, I'll leave you to question others.

He didn't say he thought the eu would be worse off than us, did he? He said they probably want no deal less than us, which is probably quite right. Germany already sitting on the edge of a recession, I doubt they want to take another hit. Italy already coming up with insane ways of pumping money into their economy, france already having street protests over prices going up. None of them want it, and rightly so.

 

How on earth would we have no bargaining power whatsoever? What sort of planet do you doom and gloomers live on. For all the REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEing going on, they want our money, that isn't going to just stop from being true. :sleep:

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2 hours ago, Toddybad said:

You keep asking if you're missing something but don't respond to points raised to answer that question.

 

Why do you think the EU would be worse off than the UK in a no deal scenario?

 

If we went down the no deal route we would have no bargaining power whatsoever. There's a reason even the WTO themselves predict it would be disastrous for us. 

 

Simply ignoring the answers and then continuing to ask the same questions isn't really a basis for continued learning.

 

Anyway, I'll leave you to question others.

 

Thank God you’re not negotiating on our behalf Toddy ...   you are obviously a very intelligent young chap but business wise (and this negotiation is business and not politics) ...   you haven’t got a clue.

 

The WTO organisation may well predict that a no deal would be disastrous for us ...     but what do they think about a no deal for the eu ??    Of course they don’t want it either !!   (See above post) ...   And that is our one and only bargaining chip !   Surely you can see that ?  The eu are completely bossing us at the moment and thanks to some total dickheads in our government we are letting them walk all over us. We are in the sh1t that’s for sure and this is not down to people who voted to leave the sinking eu ship before it implodes ...   as it surely will ...   but the fookin politicians who couldn’t agree on what colour to paint a wall.  

 

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7 hours ago, Countryfox said:

 

Thank God you’re not negotiating on our behalf Toddy ...   you are obviously a very intelligent young chap but business wise (and this negotiation is business and not politics) ...   you haven’t got a clue.

 

The WTO organisation may well predict that a no deal would be disastrous for us ...     but what do they think about a no deal for the eu ??    Of course they don’t want it either !!   (See above post) ...   And that is our one and only bargaining chip !   Surely you can see that ?  The eu are completely bossing us at the moment and thanks to some total dickheads in our government we are letting them walk all over us. We are in the sh1t that’s for sure and this is not down to people who voted to leave the sinking eu ship before it implodes ...   as it surely will ...   but the fookin politicians who couldn’t agree on what colour to paint a wall.  

 

The EU don't want a hard Brexit and it wouldn't be good for them.

 

We don't want a hard Brexit and it would be catastrophic for us.

 

We've had it on the table all along.

The EU gave a huge concession on allowing CU/SM access throughout the transition AND backstop.

 

If no deal actually happened it would hit us much harder than the EU. For them it's the loss of a deal affecting a trading partner that is worth about 8% of trade. For us it affects not just the 44% of trade that's with the EU, but also the vast majority of our other trade that is under trade deals we access as part of the EU.

 

We would be in a hugely compromised position of weakness which would give the EU a massive upper hand. All they'd have to do is sit back and watch us struggle until we begin begging.

Edited by Toddybad
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14 hours ago, Parafox said:

Maybe the media should stop making a huge story out of **** all. A 93 year old bloke on his way to Morrisons gets t-boned because he's incapable of being aware of what's going on around him. Happens every day.

One of my relations got knocked off a motorbike at the same junction by prince charles' envoy!

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