Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
coolhandfox

Goose that laid the Golden Egg.

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Foxaholic ME said:

I dont think you are correct about Bloomfield every one of my vintage loved watching his sides . The only time I can remember him or the team being booed was his last match which we lost 5-0 to WBA. He was not booed out finishing his contract and not choosing to renew it.

I'm afraid there were plenty of "Bloomfield out" chants towards the end of his last season. From what I can remember some supporters were frustrated that we never quite got into the European places despite the fact that this was a wonderfully talented and entertain team (albeit prone to the odd 5-0 thumping). 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A narrative about Pearson has emerged which claims that the Premier League win was the direct result of his work to lay the foundations in the previous year. Evidence that this is too simplistic of not rather romanticised is ignored because it doesn’t fit this narrative but there’s plenty of it

 

Kante was bought after Pearson was sacked

Neither Vardy or Maher really flourished under Pearson

The great escape was founded on us stumbling on a tactic in the last quarter of the season. The big question about that season is not why we survived but why the team played so badly for so long despite having such good players. Pearson’s stubborn refusal to change tactics is quite probably a major reason.

 

It is true that a long term strategy is necessary to get long term success but having such a strategy doesn’t automatically bring success. If the long term strategy is wrong it will just result in long term decline.

  • Like 3
  • Haha 1
  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Many of the performances have been underwhelming, but we're not in a terrible place by any means. We've actually got some stability, something that we've been craving for a long time. I really don't understand why people are completely losing their shit. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2018 at 17:41, knitro said:

What I like about Puel is two things - first he prioritizes youth, which is how Leicester can eventually climb into the top 6 perennially, with a group who develop together a la Tottenham. The mercenary approach by the Oil Clubs and Man U isn't going to work here, we can't compete on spending/prestige like that and you don't want to be 1-2 bad signings away from relegation. The second thing is that he's loyal - a one club man as a player, I could see him being the one to make Leicester his club, the way Wenger or Poch have with their respective clubs.

 

Continuity is a very underrated virtue here on Foxtalk - visions take time to execute and as frustrating as it was to just not be at the races v. Spurs, we're still likely a season away from a more complete version of a squad which works exactly as envisioned (still have many Ranieri/Shakey era players to move). My feeling is that Puel is someone who'd rather die on principle then bend to save his own skin. He has his way and its developing a core squad whom play together for years, and not the slapdash hole-plugging exercise by a retread hoping to cling onto the job for a few seasons. He's done nothing to lose my confidence in navigating the squad from 2016 through the loss of Vichai to greener pastures. 

No chance.

 

We will make the buyable options for elite who will buy them. We are then back to square one. All this ‘long term plan idea’ is a smokescreen which benefits the current manager with zero chance of us progressing. 

 

‘Building a team’ to land success with a club of our size can’t work in this day and age. It only worked for us a few years as nobody knew our players or thought we were any good as they were ‘championship players’. The PL is a shop window where all can see what’s on offer. Maguire is a prime example.  

 

Building for the future is a complete pipe dream; better to live in the here and now and try and be better now.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2018 at 10:46, Babylon said:

In the modern era has any team actually achieved what it is people seem to be asking for on here? Any teams who got themselves into a steady midtable position, invariably imploded when they went searching for something more exciting football wise, and wanting to "push on" and challenge the top 6.

 

I should add, that I'm not suggesting we don't try and push for more, but I think we need to tread with care and it also needs to come with the financial backing needed to make it a reality.

Very true. Everton and West Ham have always thought for years that they could be a top 6 side and theyve both spent money to suggest that level of ambition. But both seem to fail miserably, especially West Ham. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, knitro said:

I get the 'everyone but Barcelona is a feeder club' argument, and it has merit, but they and the other teams above us can ultimately only field 11 guys a game, just like everyone else. Will we always lose people to them? Yes, so let's get a system in place which allows for a 'next man up' ready-made, in-house replacement to step into voids. With a strong enough development program, no single loss should sink us, and structured correctly you should not see fire sales where 4-5 key cogs disappear in a window. If you had doubts about the owner's temerity on this topic, look at how we only lost Kante after the title, and that was only due to a release clause.

 

Why has the 'build the club' model worked for Tottenham? They're sitting 3rd and through to the last 16 in the Champions League, and they didn't have a single incoming transfer this summer. Does it work for them because they started a few years before? What's keeping Alli, Kane Eriksen and Son there?

 

We're not destine to be Southhampton to the Liverpool's of the world unless we consent it. The surprise title still has quite a bit of cache when it comes to recruitment (we've demonstrated we can do it, no matter how unlikely, which is more than most clubs can say). The ownership have repeatedly demonstrate that their ambitions exceed just turning a tidy profit or solely for the bragging rights of owning a professional sports team (Like Sheik Mansour sees Man City as anything other than another glittery plaything in his vast stable, I think he's only ever been to a single game of theirs).

 

The vision is clear - Sign players to long deals for leverage (update them as warranted with strong performance), but do let players leave when 'too good to refuse offers' come in (I actually think we handled Mahrez about as well as possible), build a mentality that Leicester City is trying to create something special, become kings of the midlands catchment (who's the competition here?) with world class facilities (planned already), become known for being a club which get's young players on the field sooner (the way Ajax or Dortmund are perceived abroad), which will differentiate us from the Chelseas of the world with their loan armies (which will necessarily be reduced with the rule changes about squad size). 

 

The world's most successful businesses have 10 year plans or longer - clubs should be viewed no differently. If you think sustainable success is achieved by focusing on the here and now, eschewing future considerations, I don't know what to tell you other than, I think you're as wrong as you could be. 

 

Apologies for the parenthetical abuse, its what happens when I quickly try and get ideas out. 

The question is, is Puel the man for the long term? If not, when do release him and someone to take us to the stage of the long term plan ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, knitro said:

I get the 'everyone but Barcelona is a feeder club' argument, and it has merit, but they and the other teams above us can ultimately only field 11 guys a game, just like everyone else. Will we always lose people to them? Yes, so let's get a system in place which allows for a 'next man up' ready-made, in-house replacement to step into voids. With a strong enough development program, no single loss should sink us, and structured correctly you should not see fire sales where 4-5 key cogs disappear in a window. If you had doubts about the owner's temerity on this topic, look at how we only lost Kante after the title, and that was only due to a release clause.

 

Why has the 'build the club' model worked for Tottenham? They're sitting 3rd and through to the last 16 in the Champions League, and they didn't have a single incoming transfer this summer. Does it work for them because they started a few years before? What's keeping Alli, Kane Eriksen and Son there?

 

We're not destine to be Southhampton to the Liverpool's of the world unless we consent it. The surprise title still has quite a bit of cache when it comes to recruitment (we've demonstrated we can do it, no matter how unlikely, which is more than most clubs can say). The ownership have repeatedly demonstrate that their ambitions exceed just turning a tidy profit or solely for the bragging rights of owning a professional sports team (Like Sheik Mansour sees Man City as anything other than another glittery plaything in his vast stable, I think he's only ever been to a single game of theirs).

 

The vision is clear - Sign players to long deals for leverage (update them as warranted with strong performance), but do let players leave when 'too good to refuse offers' come in (I actually think we handled Mahrez about as well as possible), build a mentality that Leicester City is trying to create something special, become kings of the midlands catchment (who's the competition here?) with world class facilities (planned already), become known for being a club which get's young players on the field sooner (the way Ajax or Dortmund are perceived abroad), which will differentiate us from the Chelseas of the world with their loan armies (which will necessarily be reduced with the rule changes about squad size). 

 

The world's most successful businesses have 10 year plans or longer - clubs should be viewed no differently. If you think sustainable success is achieved by focusing on the here and now, eschewing future considerations, I don't know what to tell you other than, I think you're as wrong as you could be. 

 

Apologies for the parenthetical abuse, its what happens when I quickly try and get ideas out. 

Tottenham started off as a big club, let’s use the last 20 years as a starting point. I’m not a Spurs history buff but weren’t they in the Champions League quarter final with Arry about 10 years ago? 

They are in London, where almost every foreign player wants to be.

 

They have been in the CL in recent years therefore they the ‘elite’ relative to our club, as much as I don’t like to say it, and can hold on to players accordingly. They also have a much better manager who is tactically very good who can attract players, and can keep them because of it; we don’t. 

 

I dont think a club of our size can build and get into the top four, by the time other club’s have seen any talent, the player’s are going to be gone. 

The only way you can prevent this even for the short term is having a manager with the ability to keep the players through coaching, tactical nouse, and / or charisma.

 

We don’t have that with Puel, so it will be a dead duck until we employ someone with at least some of these traits. The bigger club’s have more money, bigger stadiums, etc etc so the only thing we can do is to seek and employ a coach / manager who players want to play for; a serious character who can attract and keep players here for more than one or two seasons.

 

 

 

Edited by NotTheMarketLeader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Tottenham started off as a big club, let’s use the last 20 years as a starting point. I’m not a Spurs history buff but weren’t they in the Champions League quarter final with Arry about 10 years ago? 

They are in London, where almost every foreign player wants to be.

 

They have been in the CL in recent years therefore they the ‘elite’ relative to our club, as much as I don’t like to say it, and can hold on to players accordingly. They also have a much better manager who is tactically very good who can attract players, can keep them; we don’t. 

Ok let's look at their last 20 league position 14,11,10,12,9,10,14,9,5,5,11,8,4,5,4,5,6,5,3,2,3. Yep they definitely started as a big club

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Attywolf said:

Ok let's look at their last 20 league position 14,11,10,12,9,10,14,9,5,5,11,8,4,5,4,5,6,5,3,2,3. Yep they definitely started as a big club

They had an average spell in the 90's and very early 2000, but Spurs have always been one of the bigger clubs. Trying to deny that is utterly futile, they have a history we can only dream of. The 80's alone they got 4th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd, 3rd and three FA cup wins. Their worst finish in 40 years is 15th in the premier league, ours is somewhere in league one. Our models are light years off in terms of starting points.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, Attywolf said:

Ok let's look at their last 20 league position 14,11,10,12,9,10,14,9,5,5,11,8,4,5,4,5,6,5,3,2,3. Yep they definitely started as a big club

My god. I plucked 20 years out of the air. 

 

Look before that I think you will see that they have been a big club for a long long time. Trophies, Europe, European trophies, big  crowds, FA cup wins galore etc etc. 

 

Using your own measure even; 5 times in the top four in the last 9 years and only once out of the top 6 ??‍♂️

 

Edited by NotTheMarketLeader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2018 at 12:09, Foxaholic ME said:

I dont think you are correct about Bloomfield every one of my vintage loved watching his sides . The only time I can remember him or the team being booed was his last match which we lost 5-0 to WBA. He was not booed out finishing his contract and not choosing to renew it.

There were plenty of games were he was booed and fans called for him to be sacked. Clearly you weren't on The Kop.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/12/2018 at 19:57, 1969 said:

I'm afraid there were plenty of "Bloomfield out" chants towards the end of his last season. From what I can remember some supporters were frustrated that we never quite got into the European places despite the fact that this was a wonderfully talented and entertain team (albeit prone to the odd 5-0 thumping). 

I won't let that lie,or if will become an another forum point ,based on singular opinion...

 

I also remember the odd negative chants,getting quite  a bit of stick and booed down by others...

the vitriol that one experiences today,was never so blatant as today ,plus even towards the end Bloomfield had more supporters backing him than,

the odd big mouths,because those same turned up also so readily with B.Little,Adams,O'Neil,Ranieri......

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

I won't let that lie,or if will become an another forum point ,based on singular opinion...

 

I also remember the odd negative chants,getting quite  a bit of stick and booed down by others...

the vitriol that one experiences today,was never so blatant as today ,plus even towards the end Bloomfield had more supporters backing him than,

the odd big mouths,because those same turned up also so readily with B.Little,Adams,O'Neil,Ranieri......

 

I'm not saying they were right nor that it was everyone. But there were definitely those chants. I loved the Bloomfield era. For me this is one of the reasons that I'm willing to give Puel time. I can remember my dear old dad saying to me at the time "people should be careful what they wish for" and sure enough we ended up with Frank Mclintock, the sale of Frankie Wortho and a freefall to relegation. I'm in no way comparing Puel to Bloomfield but I can see what he's trying to build and we are comfortably mid-table unless that changes and unless there is a better option I don't share the view that ANY option is better. Ps for anyone of a similar era "Weller walks on water" 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, 1969 said:

I'm not saying they were right nor that it was everyone. But there were definitely those chants. I loved the Bloomfield era. For me this is one of the reasons that I'm willing to give Puel time. I can remember my dear old dad saying to me at the time "people should be careful what they wish for" and sure enough we ended up with Frank Mclintock, the sale of Frankie Wortho and a freefall to relegation. I'm in no way comparing Puel to Bloomfield but I can see what he's trying to build and we are comfortably mid-table unless that changes and unless there is a better option I don't share the view that ANY option is better. Ps for anyone of a similar era "Weller walks on water" 

:cheers:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

No chance.

 

We will make the buyable options for elite who will buy them. We are then back to square one. All this ‘long term plan idea’ is a smokescreen which benefits the current manager with zero chance of us progressing. 

 

‘Building a team’ to land success with a club of our size can’t work in this day and age. It only worked for us a few years as nobody knew our players or thought we were any good as they were ‘championship players’. The PL is a shop window where all can see what’s on offer. Maguire is a prime example.  

 

Building for the future is a complete pipe dream; better to live in the here and now and try and be better now.

 

I disagree that it's a smoke screen. The club's strategy seems prudent and clever. There are many things to dislike about Puel: constantly changing formation, trying to instill a style of football that will take time, lack of chumminess with fans and other things that can fill threads. But he does do one thing very well, something derided by some fans: promote youth into the first team. This is essential to what I believe what was Vichai's strategy and is Top's strategy.

 

You're right it's very hard to compete with the top six. And you're right we can turn into a shop widow (if we sell). But we can do something else that top six clubs will struggle to do: develop an excellent academy and then put the youth into the first team.

 

Chelsea and Man City have some of the best youth talent. They're currently playing in the Championship. And they know there's little chance of breaking through to their clubs. Their own clubs have so much money and so much pressure they're more likely to buy preexisting top talent than give their youth a chance: they have too much at stake.

 

But we can afford to spend half a season painfully watching Chilwell. We can not only develop great talent but then also put them in the first team. We then become a beacon for all the youth talent in the country. Man City and Chelsea may have the glamour to attract players but the youth players know with us they're more like to make it.

 

But this only works with a manager who has a good reputation with youth players and can keep us in the Premier League. I hope Puel succeeds here. But find me another manager who is as good with youth development and can keep us in the Premier League and I will support him instead.

 

Next season we will have an academy youth product as our left back. And our left back sub will be an academy product. And a few nights ago Luke Thomas, an under 18 left back international, scored for us. In three years if he fulfills his potential and becomes nearly as good as Chilwell, every young talented left back in the country will aim to make it in to our youth team - but all that requires a manager will one very important quality, persisting and improving the youth when everyone wants them binned. Find me another Prem-level manager who's as good in that regard and I will support him instead.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 13/12/2018 at 09:08, Foxxed said:

But we can do something else that top six clubs will struggle to do: develop an excellent academy and then put the youth into the first team.

 

Chelsea and Man City have some of the best youth talent. They're currently playing in the Championship. And they know there's little chance of breaking through to their clubs. Their own clubs have so much money and so much pressure they're more likely to buy preexisting top talent than give their youth a chance: they have too much at stake.

 

But we can afford to spend half a season painfully watching Chilwell. We can not only develop great talent but then also put them in the first team. We then become a beacon for all the youth talent in the country. Man City and Chelsea may have the glamour to attract players but the youth players know with us they're more like to make it.

 

But this only works with a manager who has a good reputation with youth players and can keep us in the Premier League. I hope Puel succeeds here. But find me another manager who is as good with youth development and can keep us in the Premier League and I will support him instead.

 

This is well put and my thought as well - the sustainable model is become the destination for young players who don't want to bank on getting lucky the way Rashford, McTominay or Harry Winks did - the hungry ones who want to get minutes early and often. Right now they have to go abroad (Sancho at Dortmund), Leicester is in the position to make that not the case. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...