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urban.spaceman

Claude Puel calls for a Leicester City reality check

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27 minutes ago, Babylon said:

But he's talking about money though is he not? We might have spent money, but we've had to sell to buy since he's been here. Look at the net spend figures, Stoke, Forest, Hudderfield have a bigger net spend. If he's been told there is no budget and that you'd got to sell to buy, then he's within his rights to say it's hard to compete.

 

Screen Shot 2019-01-14 at 10.24.52.png

The net spend stats argument is skewed. You need to look at the circumstances.

 

The newly-promoted teams in the shape of Wolverhampton or Huddersfield need to spend more or think they need to spend more in order to get to a certain level in order to be able to compete in the league in general. They are forced to close the "gap" as quickly as possible, and they do so on their own financial risk.

Championship outfits such as Stoke or Nottingham Forest are taking a massive gamble of their own, with the dream of a return to the top flight.

 

Teams like us, with four consecutive years in this league already and notwithstanding a league title under our belt, have to approach the transfer market differently. We need to build on what we already have, we operate from a different perspective, a different level, and it's (arguably) easier for us to do this by offloading players we no longer need (that have a certain experience in this league and thus still offer a certain value to other top division teams).

 

In any case, I don't think it's just a simple matter of Puel's hands being tied, and even if he was forced to stay put in terms of new transfers, it's kind of ironic that he's refused to play the likes of Iborra or Silva, refusing to profit from their experience, preferring currently irritating players such as Ndidi (who has flattered to deceive lately) and Mendy in midfield.

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1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

The net spend stats argument is skewed. You need to look at the circumstances.

 

The newly-promoted teams in the shape of Wolverhampton or Huddersfield need to spend more or think they need to spend more in order to get to a certain level in order to be able to compete in the league in general. They are forced to close the "gap" as quickly as possible, and they do so on their own financial risk.

 

Teams like us, with four consecutive years in this league already and notwithstanding a league title under our belt, have to approach the transfer market differently. We need to build on what we already have, we operate from a different perspective, a different level, and it's (arguably) easier for us to do this by offloading players we no longer need (that have a certain experience in this league and thus still offer a certain value to other top division teams).

 

In any case, I don't think it's just a simple matter of Puel's hands being tied, and even if he was forced to stay put in terms of new transfers, it's kind of ironic that he's refused to play the likes of Iborra or Silva, refusing to profit from their experience, preferring currently irritating players such as Ndidi (who has flattered to deceive lately) and Mendy in midfield.

I'm well aware of that, but it's not just promoted teams above us is it.

 

Why is it ironic if he doesn't fancy two players he didn't sign and frankly haven't looked any better than the others.

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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Or we just wait until the end of the season and see where we finished, rather than picking and choosing sets of games to prve one point or another.

And if recent trends go we'll win 3 out of these next 4 games anyway and have to queue up for Claude's nosh line.

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1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

You can't base it entirely on net spend though. On that logic Man City shouldn't be competing with Fulham (for what its worth, they've been a big example of what not to do this season).

I'm sorry but that's just stupid isn't it, because you know that's not the case and you know it's a one off. Perhaps the manager in charge, who knows his budgets, who knows what's happening in terms of money being available, who knows we've got a training ground to pay for, is quite well placed to know that financially we can't compete with teams who can do net spends of £70-£90m, something he's not been given.

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3 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

And if recent trends go we'll win 3 out of these next 4 games anyway and have to queue up for Claude's nosh line.

I’m not confident that’s gonna happen. I suspect he might not be here after the next four. Despite the Man City and Chelsea results I can see us maybe getting something from Wolves but the next three I just think will sadly be too strong for us.

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6 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The net spend stats argument is skewed. You need to look at the circumstances.

 

The newly-promoted teams in the shape of Wolverhampton or Huddersfield need to spend more or think they need to spend more in order to get to a certain level in order to be able to compete in the league in general. They are forced to close the "gap" as quickly as possible, and they do so on their own financial risk.

Championship outfits such as Stoke or Nottingham Forest are taking a massive gamble of their own, with the dream of a return to the top flight.

 

Teams like us, with four consecutive years in this league already and notwithstanding a league title under our belt, have to approach the transfer market differently. We need to build on what we already have, we operate from a different perspective, a different level, and it's (arguably) easier for us to do this by offloading players we no longer need (that have a certain experience in this league and thus still offer a certain value to other top division teams).

 

In any case, I don't think it's just a simple matter of Puel's hands being tied, and even if he was forced to stay put in terms of new transfers, it's kind of ironic that he's refused to play the likes of Iborra or Silva, refusing to profit from their experience, preferring currently irritating players such as Ndidi (who has flattered to deceive lately) and Mendy in midfield.

Forest are surely about to have their arseholes buggered by FFP? They haven't been in the PL in decades, where on earth have they had that sort of bunce from to gamble with? You can only lose £8m a year I thought in the EFL?

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Just now, Swan Lesta said:

I’m not coming doesn’t that’s gonna happen. I suspect he might not be here after the next four. Despite the Man City and Chelsea results I can see us maybe getting something from Wolves but the next three I just think will sadly be too strong for us.

Oh yeah, i'm not confident at all. I think Wolves will murder us and there's no way we get anything a Liverpool or Spurs. United are ruthless as well, it could easily be 6 losses on the spin and us dropping down to 11th/12th

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39 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

The Mourinho comparison I made because of Puel's publicly stating in last week's piece that

Which is a total lie.

To me, Puel paints himself as a victim (of circumstance), so goes into passive-aggressive mode. "They" are responsible, not "me".

 

Featuring more younger players is a great thing, but you need to balance it out with more experienced footballers also. Then Puel goes on and drops both Silva and Iborra and still thinks we'll be better off by not signing any more experienced players (in midfield in particular) that can't help the team improve (in terms of possession, creating chances and creativity - Maddison alone can't do it all on his own). And the 4-2-3-1 to me is a dreadful idea, it doesn't work when Vardy is being isolated up front, with little to no service from midfield.

Its not a lie.  There is an overblown pressure on us by fans'expectations.  Imagine if we hadnt won the title but come 7th that season.  He wouldnt be under such scrutiny.  That freak season has skewed things

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11 hours ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Its not a lie.  There is an overblown pressure on us by fans'expectations.  Imagine if we hadnt won the title but come 7th that season.  He wouldnt be under such scrutiny.  That freak season has skewed things

Well, I'd call that a hoax.

 

What you can say is that the media may be skewing things and raising expectations. Show me the majority or significant minority of true LCFC fans who expect us to finish this high up behind the six most dominant teams of the country on a regular basis.

 

It's not even the league finish that grinds so many people's gears, it's only part of it. I'd say team performances, tactics and approaches to matches are worse than that, coupled with a manager who has a hard time winning fans over with his own demeanor in public. It's only fine margins looking at the teams behind us, we can't get any higher than 7th, but surely (a lot) lower than that as the season progresses.

I think we can do better. I think Puel can (and should) do better than that.

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1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

Well, I'd call that a hoax.

 

What you can say is that the media may be skewing things and raising expectations. Show me the majority or significant minority of true LCFC fans who expect us to finish this high up behind the six most dominant teams of the country on a regular basis.

 

It's not even the league finish that grinds so many people's gears, it's only part of it. I'd say team performances, tactics and approaches to matches are worse than that, coupled with a manager to has a hard time winning fans over with his own demeanor in public. It's only fine margins looking at the teams behind us, we can't get any higher than 7th, but surely (a lot) lower than that as the season progresses.

I think we can do better. I think Puel can (and should) do better than that.

That is definitely possible, but not definite

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1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

There's signs on the wall that we're about to re-live exactly the same happenings as last season, when we managed to win just five times out of the remaining 21 matches. 

What wall are you looking at? We're 5 games into the final 21 matches (that'd be from and including game week 18), and we've already taken 3 wins from that. Do you really think we're only going to win twice more in the next 16? 

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5 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Its not a lie.  There is an overblown pressure on us by fans'expectations.  Imagine if we hadnt won the title but come 7th that season.  He wouldnt be under such scrutiny.  That freak season has skewed things

I hate how this argument is rolled out whenever fans criticise the manager. Are we not allowed to say we aren't happy with certain things, without having the title thrown in our face? We heard the exact same thing from pundits when Claudio was on that torrid run. Not everyone who criticises Puel, thinks we should be a top 6 team and lets sack everyone who doesn't achieve that! 

 

We aren't 7th anymore and will probably be around 12th in a month or so, which I think is a much fairer reflection of where we are at with Puel at the moment. Many players have gone backwards since he came in. Yes you can say Chilwell and Choudary have done well, but what about Maguire, N'didi or Vardy recently? Is he really that good at developing youth? What happened to Diabate? to Iheanacho? to Gray? Iborra and Silva were top players at their previous clubs and he was also unable to get anything from them. You can make individual arguments for each but when you add them all together - maybe we should stop looking for a list of excuses and accept, Puel simply isn't doing very well right now.

 

Do people not see a pattern here? He did the exact same at Southampton. His style of play is dull and often ineffective. He is also very stubborn, which means that his approach is unlikely to ever change. Yes, you can argue we are a few players short of making it somehow effective, but really? I think even the most optimistic have doubts that will happen. To make his style effective, we would need players of Man City/Barcelona level. It is simply too hard to break down teams on a consistent basis with such a slow, in direct approach without players of De Bruyne, Silva quality.  It concerns me that he can't or simply won't acknowledge that.

 

Yes, we are a club in transition and yes we are promoting youth which should benefit us long-term, but how does that excuse some of the baffling decisions he makes? Or how ineffective his style is in breaking down teams and an unwillingness to change that? He reminds me of Wenger and Mourinho, i.e blindly stubborn even when it's screaming out for a change of approach. He also seems to be sucking the life out of the players and fans like they did! 

 

Of course there are arguments for him to stay for now, in terms of us being in a period of transition and changing our approach etc - but should that continue to give him a pass on some of the awful football and very questionable decisions he has been making? Absolutely not. 

 

I also don't like the notion that by changing the Manager, we will somehow abandon developing our youth players. Why? 

We have to identify a Manager who buys into continuing to develop our youth players and also one who likes to play a decent brand of football that is actually effective and entertaining to watch! Being greedy, lets get someone who can connect with the fans too, which is far easier than Puel is making it out to be! Give us a leader who we can get behind and fired up for!!!

 

p.s I still think he should see out the season and be given every chance to give us genuine hope for next season, but mostly because I don't think it would be wise to rush into making a change, especially when I believe there will be a higher calibre of Manager available in the summer. 

 

 

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17 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

I hate how this argument is rolled out whenever fans criticise the manager. Are we not allowed to say we aren't happy with certain things, without having the title thrown in our face? We heard the exact same thing from pundits when Claudio was on that torrid run. Not everyone who criticises Puel, thinks we should be a top 6 team and lets sack everyone who doesn't achieve that! 

 

We aren't 7th anymore and will probably be around 12th in a month or so, which I think is a much fairer reflection of where we are at with Puel at the moment. Many players have gone backwards since he came in. Yes you can say Chilwell and Choudary have done well, but what about Maguire, N'didi or Vardy recently? Is he really that good at developing youth? What happened to Diabate? to Iheanacho? to Gray? Iborra and Silva were top players at their previous clubs and he was also unable to get anything from them. You can make individual arguments for each but when you add them all together - maybe we should stop looking for a list of excuses and accept, Puel simply isn't doing very well right now.

 

Do people not see a pattern here? He did the exact same at Southampton. His style of play is dull and often ineffective. He is also very stubborn, which means that his approach is unlikely to ever change. Yes, you can argue we are a few players short of making it somehow effective, but really? I think even the most optimistic have doubts that will happen. To make his style effective, we would need players of Man City/Barcelona level. It is simply too hard to break down teams on a consistent basis with such a slow, in direct approach without players of De Bruyne, Silva quality.  It concerns me that he can't or simply won't acknowledge that.

 

Yes, we are a club in transition and yes we are promoting youth which should benefit us long-term, but how does that excuse some of the baffling decisions he makes? Or how ineffective his style is in breaking down teams and an unwillingness to change that? He reminds me of Wenger and Mourinho, i.e blindly stubborn even when it's screaming out for a change of approach. He also seems to be sucking the life out of the players and fans like they did! 

 

Of course there are arguments for him to stay for now, in terms of us being in a period of transition and changing our approach etc - but should that continue to give him a pass on some of the awful football and very questionable decisions he has been making? Absolutely not. 

 

I also don't like the notion that by changing the Manager, we will somehow abandon developing our youth players. Why? 

We have to identify a Manager who buys into continuing to develop our youth players and also one who likes to play a decent brand of football that is actually effective and entertaining to watch! Being greedy, lets get someone who can connect with the fans too, which is far easier than Puel is making it out to be! Give us a leader who we can get behind and fired up for!!!

 

p.s I still think he should see out the season and be given every chance to give us genuine hope for next season, but mostly because I don't think it would be wise to rush into making a change, especially when I believe there will be a higher calibre of Manager available in the summer. 

 

 

Maguire, Ndidi : They didn't became bad, they are approximatively the same level as last season. In fact, Ndidi improved his passing. They also played the WC and haven't had any vacation, so the fact they slighty underperform is justified, as for many other players in the same situation.
Vardy : WC and is 32yo when his main quality was his physical attributes... Do I really have to say more ?
Gray : a little improvement compared to last year. Still not good enough though and looks bad compared to Chilwell and Choudury.
Iheanacho : a failure at the moment.
Silva : never physical enough for the Premier League.
Iborra : never a top player.

And Puel hadn't Barcelona level players at Nice or Lille.

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1 hour ago, MC Prussian said:

The net spend stats argument is skewed. You need to look at the circumstances.

 

The newly-promoted teams in the shape of Wolverhampton or Huddersfield need to spend more or think they need to spend more in order to get to a certain level in order to be able to compete in the league in general. They are forced to close the "gap" as quickly as possible, and they do so on their own financial risk.

Championship outfits such as Stoke or Nottingham Forest are taking a massive gamble of their own, with the dream of a return to the top flight.

 

Teams like us, with four consecutive years in this league already and notwithstanding a league title under our belt, have to approach the transfer market differently. We need to build on what we already have, we operate from a different perspective, a different level, and it's (arguably) easier for us to do this by offloading players we no longer need (that have a certain experience in this league and thus still offer a certain value to other top division teams).

 

In any case, I don't think it's just a simple matter of Puel's hands being tied, and even if he was forced to stay put in terms of new transfers, it's kind of ironic that he's refused to play the likes of Iborra or Silva, refusing to profit from their experience, preferring currently irritating players such as Ndidi (who has flattered to deceive lately) and Mendy in midfield.

The Iborras and Silvas,we're shouted down heavily  every week,from within this very same forum.....Shouting they have had enough chances,they are

not PL-material.....now you come out of  the cupboard to criticise and hang  him for Not playing them enough.......!!!

Sort of buggered if he does buggered if he dont!!!

 

by the way,I believed he should of played them more....but it wouldn't be an excuse to see Puel gone!!!   

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, yks said:

Maguire, Ndidi : They didn't became bad, they are approximatively the same level as last season. In fact, Ndidi improved his passing. They also played the WC and haven't had any vacation, so the fact they slighty underperform is justified, as for many other players in the same situation.
Vardy : WC and is 32yo when his main quality was his physical attributes... Do I really have to say more ?
Gray : a little improvement compared to last year. Still not good enough though and looks bad compared to Chilwell and Gray.
Iheanacho : a failure at the moment.
Silva : never physical enough for the Premier League.
Iborra : never a top player.

And Puel hadn't Barcelona level players at Nice or Lille.

He always wasn't in the Premier League and eventually sacked by both. 

 

As I said, you can form arguments for each point I made but the list adds up doesn't it? Lots of excuses! Maybe time to accept he really isn't doing that well in many areas, especially where it matters, on the pitch. 

 

Let's see how we finish the season though. There may be hope yet! I have my doubts as I think his style is fundamentally flawed at this level with the players we have or will be able to attract. 

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16 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

I hate how this argument is rolled out whenever fans criticise the manager. Are we not allowed to say we aren't happy with certain things, without having the title thrown in our face? We heard the exact same thing from pundits when Claudio was on that torrid run. Not everyone who criticises Puel, thinks we should be a top 6 team and lets sack everyone who doesn't achieve that! 

 

 

 

 

I didnt read the rest of your post

 

My statement was in response to somebody criticising Puel's words in a press conference about the pressure he is under.  I was speaking specifically about that, not about people's criticism of the manager in general.

 

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1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

He always wasn't in the Premier League and eventually sacked by both. 

 

As I said, you can form arguments for each point I made but the list adds up doesn't it? Lots of excuses! Maybe time to accept he really isn't doing that well in many areas, especially where it matters, on the pitch. 

 

Let's see how we finish the season though. There may be hope yet! I have my doubts as I think his style is fundamentally flawed at this level with the players we have or will be able to attract. 

No he wasn't.
He left Lille because he was hired by Lyon and left Nice at the end of his contract.

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11 minutes ago, yks said:

Maguire, Ndidi : They didn't became bad, they are approximatively the same level as last season. In fact, Ndidi improved his passing. They also played the WC and haven't had any vacation, so the fact they slighty underperform is justified, as for many other players in the same situation.
Vardy : WC and is 32yo when his main quality was his physical attributes... Do I really have to say more ?
Gray : a little improvement compared to last year. Still not good enough though and looks bad compared to Chilwell and Choudury.
Iheanacho : a failure at the moment.
Silva : never physical enough for the Premier League.
Iborra : never a top player.

And Puel hadn't Barcelona level players at Nice or Lille.

He didn't need them there, because Ligue 1 is well-known as a development league or has been like that for the past twenty, twenty-five years.

It's how French football teams stay afloat financially (apart from your PSGs, Monacos, OMs and OLs).

 

The standard of football isn't the best, and that's mainly because most teams can't keep their squads together for more than a year or two. Also one of the main reasons why PSG have been able to dominate the league for so long.

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2 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

He didn't need them there, because Ligue 1 is well-known as a development league or has been like that for the past twenty, twenty-five years.

It's how French football teams stay afloat financially (apart from your PSGs, Monacos, OMs and OLs).

 

The standard of football isn't the best, and that's mainly because most teams can't keep their squads together for more than a year or two. Also one of the main reasons why PSG have been able to dominate the league for so long.

And also probably why when a French club play against an English club which isn't in the top 6, they beat them.
To be clear the Premier League is considered better than Ligue 1 only because of the Top 6.
2-20 in Ligue 1 and 7-20 in the Premier League is basically the same.

 

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11 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Define "going well" after losing against Cardiff in the league, Newport County in the FA Cup (and against a ten-man Southampton FC, after the interview).

Again, you don't win a medal for being 7th after 21 matches.

 

Let me remind you that we won five out of our last 21 matches last season. Five. A win every four matches. That is relegation form.

We enjoyed our best spell under Puel last season in between late November and mid-December (four wins, one draw).

So far, our best spell this season has been in between late October and early December (two wins, four draws).

Excuse me for not being overly enthusiastic at present.

 

Up next:

 

Wolves (a)

Liverpool (a)

Manchester United (h)

Tottenham Hotspur (a)

 

Honni soit qui mal y pense.

 

This is a big problem for Puel especially with the fans on his back already...

 

Wolves could go either way in reality its the 3 after that which are a big concern while we beat Man City and Chelsea, I can't see us getting any points in those 3.

 

So that's 4 games, fail to win at Wolves and we will be sliding down the table.

 

He finished 9th last season 3 points away from 12th (where we finished the season before) I can't see us finishing 9th this season, I don't know what progress is being made I hate to say it but we could be going backwards rather than forwards.

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58 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

I didnt read the rest of your post

 

My statement was in response to somebody criticising Puel's words in a press conference about the pressure he is under.  I was speaking specifically about that, not about people's criticism of the manager in general.

 

Wasn't directed at you in particular. I have seen it thrown around by a lot of people on here and some in the media. 

 

As someone else just mentioned. List the fans who think we belong in the top 6 and it would be a very short list of (deluded) people. So few actually believe that and it's very irritating to hear it so often when it's so far from the actual truth. 

 

Puel deserves the criticisms he is getting. Sack worthy? Not yet, but the long list of excuses don't hold much weight, especially when they have no direct impact on some of his baffling decisions and his continued stubbornness to play a style that is ineffective. 

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13 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Boy did that newspaper article help the gaffer, couldn't have had it published at a worse moment in time.

 

Reality check? Claude, you just lost against a lowly Welsh team in the FA Cup and another Welsh team in the league not so long ago, I'd say you have better things to do and other, more important issues to focus on than to give extended interviews.

So you admit there's negativity around the team - maybe you'd like to indulge ourselves as to why that could be? Do you think you play a part in that negativitee, too?

Claude, you don't praise yourself or the team for a 7th place position halfway through the season, it's irrelevant - it's where we stand in May when it counts.

You seriously believe other managers at other clubs aren't subject to scrutiny when things aren't going well? You think you're the only one being critized? Are you wearing a José Mourinho mask here by any chance?

You call for "consistencee" - I don't see any. Our only consistency is our inconsistency. And that's both disappointing and sad at the same time.

You'll be hard-pressed to find many a LCFC supporter demanding instant success or finishing in the Top Six on a regular basis, that's not what it's about.

All we'd like to see is a more positive approach to matches, more passes going forward, not this sideways or backwards crap we're exposed to on a regular basis.

Claude, you may be a great manager and a great man in person - right now, all I see is you sucking the little energy that we've left from the league-winning season out of this club.

Think our current views very much align, so I'm curious what you are thinking in terms of replacing him now or the end of the season if results dip? 

 

I think the cons outweigh the pros in replacing him now so I'd wait. Not so much in terms of giving him time, but also to give Top and Co. time as well, to perhaps form a clearer idea of a future post-Puel. I also think we are much more likely to attract a higher calibre of Manager in the summer.

 

Rodgers or Howe (if possible) for me. Both have lots of Prem experience and play decent brand of football. Both have flaws of course and would need to improve in areas, but who realistically are we going to get? Curious to hear if you have any Managers in mind? 

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