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browniefox

Southampton Home post match, 1-2 loss.

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The club is in the most promising position we’ve been in since MON, but people complain like we’re 20th and haven’t won a game all season.

Can we please just get some consistency in our club without half our fanbase complaining?

The key word is patience, most managers who succeed all had time to develop their team and style. We’re not the first team struggling to break down anti-football teams early in the project. Liverpool always struggled against low defensive blocks when Klopp came in, look at them now.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, lcfcell said:

 

Oh really? I thought there is a few that do 

Usually the ones that didnt play if I am not mistaken lol

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14 minutes ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

This is funny.  A few on here were saying Puel is wrong for saying the boos are "none if his concern"

There is though a subtle difference. Should he be concerned that fans are not happy with the perfomance and show that through booing? Then yes he should. Should he change what he believes is correct in terms of team selection and substitutions, immediately before and during a match, because of it then the answer is categorically, no.

 

There is a difference between showing empathy towards the views of fans and understanding or at least pretending to understand their points of view and actually managing.

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Southampton playing like Leicester of old, high pressing counterattacking football then sitting deep and defending when a goal up. We have given up are DNA while others are giving up pocession football. 

Afew Saints members on the Southampton forum before the game yesterday were saying let's play like Leicester did in the title winning season. 

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18 minutes ago, Shaqq said:

The club is in the most promising position we’ve been in since MON, but people complain like we’re 20th and haven’t won a game all season.

Can we please just get some consistency in our club without half our fanbase complaining?

The key word is patience, most managers who succeed all had time to develop their team and style. We’re not the first team struggling to break down anti-football teams early in the project. Liverpool always struggled against low defensive blocks when Klopp came in, look at them now.

 

 

I think it's different asking people to be patient when you're still showing attacking intent and signs of progress like Liverpool were.  They may have had some inconsistency against top sides but they regularly dispatched teams below them. He's bought in a few players and still don't look much the better. We still struggle to break down poor sides after a year and a half without much progress. He seems a bit of an introvert which shows in his inability to create a relationship with the fans and causing mass frustration. He may get it right if given the time he may not, the latter looking more likely at the moment. 

Edited by bfox

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I don't think yesterday's game can be used against him, 2 mistakes 2 goals, if we go in at half time just 1 down I'd say we go on and win.

 

For those that blame formations i.e. starting 433, MattP I think it was has previously expertly posted formations are organic within a game, in the 2nd half we played a 1-2-7 & had 85% possession, now I'm almost sure that that formation wouldn't have come straight off the training ground, you just can't plan those types of games and would have been solely down to the players to find the solutions, said with fear of sounding French.

 

We do have an issue with starting slowly agreed, it's almost like he wants us to play it cagey so he can see how the opposition is set up, remembering he only gets their team line up 1hr before and maybe why we have much better 2nd halfs where he then gives his attacking plan? he certainly out witted the master tactician Pep for our win in this way.

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Just now, BKLFox said:

I don't think yesterday's game can be used against him

So who is responsible for weekly shit shows at home? the players?

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1 minute ago, bfox said:

So who is responsible for weekly shit shows at home? the players?

There is no point asking honestly the Puel fans can’t see past there noses! 

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8 minutes ago, bfox said:

I think it's different asking people to be patient when you're still showing attacking intent and signs of progress like Liverpool were.  They may have had some inconsistency against top sides but they regularly dispatched teams below them. He's bought in a few players and still don't look much the better. We still struggle to break down poor sides after a year and a half without much progress. He seems a bit of an introvert which shows in his inability to create a relationship with the fans and causing mass frustration. He may get it right if given the time he may not, the latter looking more likely at the moment. 

1. Not true at all, they regularly struggled to break teams down at home.

 

2. So signing Ricardo, Maddison + bringing through Chilwell/Hamza hasn't improved us? He took over when we were on the verge of the bottom 3 and we're now 8th. 

 

I'm not hiding from the problems we have under Puel at all but what you say here is just false.

Edited by Goober

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6 minutes ago, bfox said:

So who is responsible for weekly shit shows at home? the players?

 

5 minutes ago, chapero82 said:

There is no point asking honestly the Puel fans can’t see past there noses! 

To be fair to @BKLFox he is talking in response to yesterdays game since we are in the Post Southampton thread and not the inconsistency of the season

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Obviously the individual players have to take responsibilty for their errors and Mendy, in particular, must be feeling that this morning. The manager must take responsibity for team selection and he seems satisfied with what he is doing. No doubt, his removal will come as a great surprise to him as he appears to think everything he's doing is right. His "No comment" responses are that of a condemned man.

 

 

 

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Goober said:

 

1. Not true at all, they regularly struggled to break teams down at home.

 

2. So signing Ricardo, Maddison + bringing through Chilwell/Hamza hasn't improved us? He took over when we were on the verge of the bottom 3 and we're now 8th. 

 

I'm not hiding from the problems we have under Puel at all but what you say here is just false.

This time last year we were in the same place in the league. Is that progress or just standing still? Or am I expecting too much?

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8 minutes ago, Goober said:

 

1.Not true at all, they regularly struggled to break teams down at home.

 

2. So signing Ricardo, Maddison + bringing through Chilwell/Hamza hasn't improved us? He took over when we were on the verge on the bottom 3 and we're now 8th. 

 

I'm not hiding from the problems we have under Puel at all but what you say here is just false.

1. did they though? despite finishing 8th they generally played well at home and scored a hatful in most games, few inconsistencies aside. The signs were there that they were moving in the right direction. 

2. If we look at the last 5 or 6 years, I don't think the performances have improved at all at home. Away possibly but then again the onus is on the other team to take the front foot.

Edited by bfox

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Just now, David Hankey said:

This time last year we were in the same place in the league. Is that progress or just standing still? Or am I expecting too much?

Puel's doing a rebuilding job on the squad and I think as a club we're in a better position than we were this time last season, especially as we've had to do it without Mahrez. 

 

If i were to give this season a score out of 10 i'd probably give it a high 6. Poor in the cups, okay in the league and a good job done in rebuilding the squad. Plenty of room for improvement and I don't think it's wrong to be expecting more than what we're seeing - I just think some are going well over the top.

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26 minutes ago, reynard said:

There is though a subtle difference. Should he be concerned that fans are not happy with the perfomance and show that through booing? Then yes he should. Should he change what he believes is correct in terms of team selection and substitutions, immediately before and during a match, because of it then the answer is categorically, no.

 

There is a difference between showing empathy towards the views of fans and understanding or at least pretending to understand their points of view and actually managing.

What does that difference mean practically though? Zilch. You just want him to say what exactly? Im sorry we lost, its my fault?

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10 minutes ago, bfox said:

1. did they though? despite finishing 8th they generally played well at home and scored a hatful in most games, few inconsistencies aside. The signs were there that they were moving in the right direction. 

2. If we look at the last 5 or 6 years, I don't think the performances have improved at all at home. Away possibly but then again the onus is on the other team to take the front foot.

1. I didn't even realise they finished as low as 8th. For a club of Liverpool's stature that is shambolic - yet you're saying things were far more rosy for Klopp in his first year or so? Both he and Puel inherited unbalanced squads that didn't suit their style, Klopp's needed 2/3 years to sort it out with plenty of shit performances along the way.

 

2. Our home form in the last 2 or 3 months especially has been dire. I can't defend it but I can see why we're struggling. We've not got enough in the midfield for us to break teams down in the way Puel wants us to. He must take the blame for setting us up in this way but I think he needs a better option in the middle.

Edited by Goober

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Not enough players getting into the box....again

Not enough attacking intensity....again

Not pressing high enough and causing unease in the opposition defence....again

Not many clear cut chances created....again

 

I'm happy with a more possession based game once we are 1 or 2 goals up, but that doesn't happen very often!

 

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Just now, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

What does that difference mean practically though? Zilch. You just want him to say what exactly? Im sorry we lost, its my fault?

No. But he could say something like, I understand the fan's frustrations with some  of our perfomances and we appreciate their continued support etc etc. Sometimes a manger needs to come out and admit that things weren't great. It isn't about rubbishing specific players in public more, as the face of the club, owning up to a collective responsibility and turning that into a postive. It isn't an admission of failure but is an honesty some fans would respect.

Obviously it is platitudes but that doesn't matter.

The difference between that and managing on a match day is obvious. Should he stand on the touch line and be influenced by fan reactions then as I said no he shouldn't.

Maybe the language is an issue in which case the club should provide an advisor.

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8 minutes ago, reynard said:

No. But he could say something like, I understand the fan's frustrations with some  of our perfomances and we appreciate their continued support etc etc. Sometimes a manger needs to come out and admit that things weren't great. It isn't about rubbishing specific players in public more, as the face of the club, owning up to a collective responsibility and turning that into a postive. It isn't an admission of failure but is an honesty some fans would respect.

Obviously it is platitudes but that doesn't matter.

The difference between that and managing on a match day is obvious. Should he stand on the touch line and be influenced by fan reactions then as I said no he shouldn't.

Maybe the language is an issue in which case the club should provide an advisor.

He said the fans feel like him and he players, frustrated. If he had said also, "and we appreciate their continued support" it wouldnt make a jot of difference to fans' feelings about him or the team and im sure you know this

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27 minutes ago, Goober said:

1. I didn't even realise they finished as low as 8th. For a club of Liverpool's stature that is shambolic - yet you're saying things were far more rosy for Klopp in his first year or so? Both he and Puel inherited unbalanced squads that didn't suit their style, Klopp's needed 2/3 years to sort it out with plenty of shit performances along the way.

 

2. Our home form in the last 2 or 3 months especially has been dire. I can't defend it but I can see why we're struggling. We've not got enough in the midfield for us to break teams down in the way Puel wants us to. He must take the blame for setting us up in this way but I think he needs a better option in the middle.

From the fans perspective

 

1. Add to that the fact that Klopp came from Dortmund, who were absolutely fantastic under his tenure. Played exciting football and always played on the front foot. So Liverpool fans were naturally willing to give him more time. Puel had some good and bad times in France but "arguably" alienated Southampton fans and they became fed up of him and his football. So it comes as no suprise that some Leicester fans are going to be more skeptical.

 

2. Home performances have been dogshit for a lot longer than that. Add another 6 months on. 

 

Not arguing by the way, it's a good debate :)

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16 minutes ago, bfox said:

From the fans perspective

 

1. Add to that the fact that Klopp came from Dortmund, who were absolutely fantastic under his tenure. Played exciting football and always played on the front foot. So Liverpool fans were naturally willing to give him more time. Puel had some good and bad times in France but "arguably" alienated Southampton fans and they became fed up of him and his football. So it comes as no suprise that some Leicester fans are going to be more skeptical.

 

2. Home performances have been dogshit for a lot longer than that. Add another 6 months on. 

 

Not arguing by the way, it's a good debate :)

Klopp had far more pedigree and credit in the bank but what we’re actually seeing isn’t THAT different is it? I’m not saying Puel is on Klopp’s level either, but the situation in front of our eyes right now bears a fair few similarities.

 

Home form at the back end of last season was particularly shite but I seem to remember us having a fair few injuries/suspensions at the time too. Still, no excuses, it’s been nowhere near good enough.

 

Do I think Puel will ultimately turn us around if he’s given another year? I have no idea, I think he’s worth the rest of the season at least because I’ve seen enough to think he’s earned it.

 

The only reason i’d see logic in sacking him now would be if we’ve already got a genuine replacement lined up and they’re given the rest of the season to assess what we’ve got at the club. A panic button style sacking with nothing concrete in place would make no sense imo as we’re in absolutely no danger of relegation.

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21 minutes ago, bfox said:

From the fans perspective

 

1. Add to that the fact that Klopp came from Dortmund, who were absolutely fantastic under his tenure. Played exciting football and always played on the front foot. So Liverpool fans were naturally willing to give him more time. Puel had some good and bad times in France but "arguably" alienated Southampton fans and they became fed up of him and his football. So it comes as no surprise that some Leicester fans are going to be more skeptical.

 

2. Home performances have been dogshit for a lot longer than that. Add another 6 months on. 

 

Not arguing by the way, it's a good debate :)

I'd agree with this, and on top of that, Klopp will always get an easier ride from fans and the press because he's so "charismatic and likeable", and he tells funny jokes in press conferences. Our fanbase seems to be very hung up on press conferences for some reason, there was a subset of fans who never took to Pearson because of this, despite all the great work he did building teams off the pitch, then putting together superb results on it. Puel is "too monotone", "too French" and "too boring" when he talks, so some fans have taken an instant dislike to him, so if the results aren't immediate, then these people run out of patience very quickly.

 

Anyway, back to the game - the problem wasn't that we couldn't break down the 9-0-0 formation Southampton used second half -  we did manage to score past them once. The problem was that we went 2-0 down in the first place, due to suicidal defensive errors. We've been a lot better in defence lately, so it is very disappointing to see the return of the incredibly soft conceded goals. We've got to cut out these errors, and make a breakthrough earlier in games, so bus parkers like Southampton and Cardiff don't have a lead/draw to sit back on in the first place.

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I genuinely don't know what to think. Performances at home are not good enough bur just don't know how far to blame CP. Against Cardiff we loose to a superb finish but should have been winning and yesterday Mendy doesn't implode we win the game. The manager cannot be blamed for missing a penalty or for suicidal defensive mistakes.We desperately need a big striker and an attacking midfielder. Is this down to bad recruitment?? The DOF has shoulder some of the blame. Without getting too silly the goal keepers distribution is awful it was another terrible pass that put us under pressure that led to the penalty.He has no pressure but seems incapable of consistently finding his target. Having said all of that just can't see CP sorting the issues out . He does not seem to have the squads support and without it his position becomes untenable.  

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4 hours ago, Crispin LA said:

Southampton playing like Leicester of old, high pressing counterattacking football then sitting deep and defending when a goal up. We have given up are DNA while others are giving up pocession football. 

Afew Saints members on the Southampton forum before the game yesterday were saying let's play like Leicester did in the title winning season. 

Makes me laugh people saying we can't play that way anymore because we've been found out.

 

Perhaps that is the case but all I know is the way we're playing now is hardly combative or effective.

 

Someone's now going to quote me answering in stats that we've scored more counter attacking goals that the title winning season, yada, yada, yada, I'm not talking counter attacking per se, i'm talking about looking up, playing on the front foot, playing forward, moving forward, posession with purpose, pace and attacking, period. Not laboured, hold up, sideways, sideways, backwards, sideways, backwards.

 

Edited by Matt

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