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One player it does worry me that Rodgers may come back for given you guys look pretty poor in the wide areas (Gray and Barnes) from what I've seen is Forrest.

 

Brendan loved him in his time up here and he is a real threat in terms of goals and assists.

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2 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

One player it does worry me that Rodgers may come back for given you guys look pretty poor in the wide areas (Gray and Barnes) from what I've seen is Forrest.

 

Brendan loved him in his time up here and he is a real threat in terms of goals and assists.

lol no

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Just now, AKCJ said:

lol no

Here's a far better player than Gray or Barnes, both have been muck anytime I've seen them.

 

Forrest tore Bayern Munich and in particular David Alaba apart just over a year ago, not many full backs in the hallowed EPL better than him.

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8 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

One player it does worry me that Rodgers may come back for given you guys look pretty poor in the wide areas (Gray and Barnes) from what I've seen is Forrest.

 

Brendan loved him in his time up here and he is a real threat in terms of goals and assists.

 

 

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I watched James Forrest once and he was the worst player on the pitch so based on that I want him absolutely nowhere near the club (unless he's playing for the opposition, in which case we'll have a field day)

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On 14/04/2019 at 11:46, sdb said:

If Rodgers doesn't rate ndidi then I don't rate Rodgers. If he can improve one or two aspects of his game (likely given his age) then we'll have one of the best players in the game in that position.

But the other aspects aren’t improving...

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Think hamza will be out on loan next season for his best interests. Definitely need a new cm that can transition the play from cb to attacking midfield/ forwards. Newcastle was a painful game to watch and although harrys had his moments, he needs support trying to link the play from defence to attack, a lot of time he try’s to do what ndidi should be doing.

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21 minutes ago, Walkers said:

I watched James Forrest once and he was the worst player on the pitch so based on that I want him absolutely nowhere near the club (unless he's playing for the opposition, in which case we'll have a field day)

Could say that about virtually any player having watched them once.  The big difference here is I have watched him week in week out for ten years just about,  I also watch tons of the EPL on TV so I'm saying it based on a pretty comprehensive set of data.  I'd wager you don't watch any Scottish football given you've watched him once and are to be blunt pretty stupidly forming an opinion on a player having watched him once.  Similar to me saying Vardy is garbage after watching Friday night's game when we all know he's not.

 

Looking at the wide players you guys have, who I've seen quite a bit of and some of the muck you have signed in that position (Musa, Ghazzal, etc) I'd wager Forrest wouldn't be the worst signing in the world for you guys.

 

Another good example of this is the clamour for some on this thread to bring in McGinn, had anyone watched much of McGinn I'd expect there to be serious concerns around spending the money mentioned on him.  You could get a far better midfield player from home or abroad for the £20m fee mentioned.

 

Anyway, not that I want him to go anywhere just a point given how poor you guys look in terms of wide options.

Edited by henrik_62

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13 minutes ago, Clarkey123 said:

But the other aspects aren’t improving...

I'd back Rodgers to turn Ndidi into a beast of a player, he has all the raw attributes required to be a superb player he just needs some polishing and refinement and this is exactly what Rodgers is great at.

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4 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Could say that about virtually any player having watched them once.  The big difference here is I have watched him week in week out for ten years just about,  I also watch tons of the EPL on TV so I'm saying it based on a pretty comprehensive set of data.  I'd wager you don't watch any Scottish football given you've watched him once and are to be blunt pretty stupidly forming an opinion on a player having watched him once.  Similar to me saying Vardy is garbage after watching Friday night's game when we all know he's not.

 

Looking at the wide players you guys have, who I've seen quite a bit of and some of the muck you have signed in that position (Musa, Ghazzal, etc) I'd wager Forrest wouldn't be the worst signing in the world for you guys.

 

Anyway, not that I want him to go anywhere just a point given how poor you guys look in terms of wide options.

I was taking the piss, however i'd be interested to know which games you have seen Barnes and thought he is poor. Not much end product yet sure but that should come in time. He's certainly not been poor for us so far and you'd probably do well to find a WBA game where he was poor judging by his stats and reputation there.

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15 minutes ago, Walkers said:

I was taking the piss, however i'd be interested to know which games you have seen Barnes and thought he is poor. Not much end product yet sure but that should come in time. He's certainly not been poor for us so far and you'd probably do well to find a WBA game where he was poor judging by his stats and reputation there.

I've watched Barnes quite a bit this season both for WBA and Leicester, was actually surprised Leicester brought him back in January as although I felt he done well in the matches for West Brom this season it probably said more about Leicester's lack of decent options wide than the fact he ripped up the championship or anything like that. 

 

Since coming back to Leicester he severely lacks in end product for me (which his stats reflect) most games I've saw him which nowadays for a winger/inside-forward is critical, if he's going to be playing regularly in the EPL he needs to be doing that, regardless of his age, he's 21 also not ultra young and really needs to get that into his game in the next year or so or he won't be at Leicester long.  There are other English wide players of a similar age and younger showing far more for example.

 

Like you say he has time on his side, but not tons of it and if you want to break into the top 6 you really need better imo and this is my point about Forrest and being careful about looking down your nose at him just because he plays in Scotland.  He has more combined goals and assists than any midfielder in Europe and yes I get the opposition argument but he is one of a few players we have that constantly delivers good performances and goals against the top sides in Europe.  Ryan Fraser I think is one of the most productive wide players in the EPL just now and although a very good player is not quite as good as Forrest yet and performances for the national team show just this.

Edited by henrik_62

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29 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I'd back Rodgers to turn Ndidi into a beast of a player, he has all the raw attributes required to be a superb player he just needs some polishing and refinement and this is exactly what Rodgers is great at.

I sure do hope so his tackling and ball winning is tremendous but his play with the ball is league 1

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5 minutes ago, Clarkey123 said:

I sure do hope so his tackling and ball winning is tremendous but his play with the ball is league 1

Can only talk from personal experience but the improvement both tactically and technically in quite a few of our players from when he took over to when he left was incredible.  It's the one single thing he's best at IMO, developing younger players.

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26 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I've watched Barnes quite a bit this season both for WBA and Leicester, was actually surprised Leicester brought him back in January as although I felt he done well in the matches for West Brom this season it probably said more about Leicester's lack of decent options wide than the fact he ripped up the championship or anything like that. 

 

Since coming back to Leicester he severely lacks in end product for me (which his stats reflect) most games I've saw him which nowadays for a winger/inside-forward is critical, if he's going to be playing regularly in the EPL he needs to be doing that, regardless of his age, he's 21 also not ultra young and really needs to get that into his game in the next year or so or he won't be at Leicester long.  There are other English wide players of a similar age and younger showing far more for example.

 

Like you say he has time on his side, but not tons of it and if you want to break into the top 6 you really need better imo and this is my point about Forrest and being careful about looking down your nose at him just because he plays in Scotland.  He has more combined goals and assists than any midfielder in Europe and yes I get the opposition argument but he is one of a few players we have that constantly delivers good performances and goals against the top sides in Europe.  Ryan Fraser I think is one of the most productive wide players in the EPL just now and although a very good player is not quite as good as Forrest yet and performances for the national team show just this.

Barnes goals and assists at Championship level, which is probably a standard better than SPL was extremely good, he's likely to win awards at West Brom and he hasn't been there for months. He does need to break his duck before the end of the season, can't help but feel had he been awarded that goal which he was harsh not to have done in only his 2nd game, he'd have settled down more. I 100% agreed with bringing him back though as this baptism of fire in the PL for half a season will stand him in much greater stead for next season. I have no doubts Rodgers will get the end product from him, but if for any reason he doesn't make it then Rodgers has already said what he expects from his wingers so both he and Gray will have to step up or will be out. Albrighton and Ghezzal aren't known for their goals either. Badly need reinforcements.

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1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

Barnes goals and assists at Championship level, which is probably a standard better than SPL was extremely good, he's likely to win awards at West Brom and he hasn't been there for months. He does need to break his duck before the end of the season, can't help but feel had he been awarded that goal which he was harsh not to have done in only his 2nd game, he'd have settled down more. I 100% agreed with bringing him back though as this baptism of fire in the PL for half a season will stand him in much greater stead for next season. I have no doubts Rodgers will get the end product from him, but if for any reason he doesn't make it then Rodgers has already said what he expects from his wingers so both he and Gray will have to step up or will be out. Albrighton and Ghezzal aren't known for their goals either. Badly need reinforcements.

I'd argue with you on the standard of the Championship being better than the SPFL, although more competitive I don't think there's too much in it in terms of quality, there are some bang average players who couldn't get into Old Firm sides who have went down to that league in recent years and been a revelation and even some players who never even stuck out at some of the smaller SPFL clubs.  Anyway, talking about the Championship is a moot point in this context as you guys need Barnes to deliver in the EPL.

 

All fair points, I guess like you say he still has a bit of time on his side to add the required end product.  However, to break into that top 6 which seems like the target Rodgers has set himself you'll need a far greater quality of wide player than what you have at present.  What should also be mentioned is privately Rodgers is pretty ruthless, there may be a few who are on audition already and won't get the same chances next season when he brings in his own players.

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32 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I'd argue with you on the standard of the Championship being better than the SPFL, although more competitive I don't think there's too much in it in terms of quality, there are some bang average players who couldn't get into Old Firm sides who have went down to that league in recent years and been a revelation and even some players who never even stuck out at some of the smaller SPFL clubs.  Anyway, talking about the Championship is a moot point in this context as you guys need Barnes to deliver in the EPL.

 

All fair points, I guess like you say he still has a bit of time on his side to add the required end product.  However, to break into that top 6 which seems like the target Rodgers has set himself you'll need a far greater quality of wide player than what you have at present.  What should also be mentioned is privately Rodgers is pretty ruthless, there may be a few who are on audition already and won't get the same chances next season when he brings in his own players.

There is also no guarentee Forest will cut it in the premier league. You say you've watched him for 10 years but we all know the standard in the spl is miles away from the prem. You mentioned about Forest playing well against Bayern. We had Musa destroy Barce (albeit in a friendly) and he turned out absolute shite. Many players can have wonder games in Europe on the odd occasion but doesn't guarentee they will be great on a consistent basis in the EPL. If he has the same impact as VVD or Robertson then fair enough but its few and far between where we get players come down from the spl with that level of ability. 

 

If he was available at a decent fee I wouldn't be against us going for him. We definitely do need improvement in wide areas as Gray can leave for me and Barnes has alot of work to do on his end product. 

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22 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

There is also no guarentee Forest will cut it in the premier league. You say you've watched him for 10 years but we all know the standard in the spl is miles away from the prem. You mentioned about Forest playing well against Bayern. We had Musa destroy Barce (albeit in a friendly) and he turned out absolute shite. Many players can have wonder games in Europe on the odd occasion but doesn't guarentee they will be great on a consistent basis in the EPL. If he has the same impact as VVD or Robertson then fair enough but its few and far between where we get players come down from the spl with that level of ability. 

 

If he was available at a decent fee I wouldn't be against us going for him. We definitely do need improvement in wide areas as Gray can leave for me and Barnes has alot of work to do on his end product. 

Yeah fair points, I'm not saying you should go for Forrest, for one I don't want to lose him it was more a point that Rodgers knows what he can do and given what he'd cost he'd probably represent greater value/less of a gamble than shelling out £40m+ from the continent for a complete unknown quantity, many of which players in recent years don't seem to make it at all in the EPL.

 

All that aside, regardless of who it is, to really kick on next season it looks like the wide areas are the positions that are most pressing for you guys to strengthen then a decent back-up for Vardy.

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1 hour ago, henrik_62 said:

Yeah fair points, I'm not saying you should go for Forrest, for one I don't want to lose him it was more a point that Rodgers knows what he can do and given what he'd cost he'd probably represent greater value/less of a gamble than shelling out £40m+ from the continent for a complete unknown quantity, many of which players in recent years don't seem to make it at all in the EPL.

 

All that aside, regardless of who it is, to really kick on next season it looks like the wide areas are the positions that are most pressing for you guys to strengthen then a decent back-up for Vardy.

What kind of fee do you think Celtic would ask for him? I'd go for £20m as that seems to be the average fee these days. How old is he as well. If he's pretty young then you can usually get your money out of a player. We got stung in the past signing players in their late 20's for high fees and they just end up a huge waste of money. I'm guessing hes early 20's but when you say you've been watching him 10 years made me think he's older. 

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Think we need someone in midfield, even if we do buy Tielemans. I can see Mendy going as Ndidi, Mendy and Choudhury are all similar so no point of having 3 very similar players when you can only really have one starting. Personally would have liked us to keep Iborra to offer something a bit different to the likes of Mendy and co.

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16 hours ago, jayfox26 said:

What kind of fee do you think Celtic would ask for him? I'd go for £20m as that seems to be the average fee these days. How old is he as well. If he's pretty young then you can usually get your money out of a player. We got stung in the past signing players in their late 20's for high fees and they just end up a huge waste of money. I'm guessing hes early 20's but when you say you've been watching him 10 years made me think he's older. 

Yeah that sounds about right, I couldn't see us getting anything over £20m for him.  He's 27 so in his peak years.

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22 hours ago, henrik_62 said:

One player it does worry me that Rodgers may come back for given you guys look pretty poor in the wide areas (Gray and Barnes) from what I've seen is Forrest.

 

Brendan loved him in his time up here and he is a real threat in terms of goals and assists.

Forrest is far more inconsistent than Gray, and that's saying something. 

 

The boy has talent, no doubt about it but his decision making at times is abhorrent. He's so frustrating to watch at times. And that's coming from a Scottish, Scotland supporter. 

 

The only player I'd take from Celtic is McGregor and he'd be back up to Tilemans and Maddison.  Obviously I'd take Tierney but only if Chilwell left. 

 

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12 minutes ago, Foxy_Bear said:

Forrest is far more inconsistent than Gray, and that's saying something. 

 

The boy has talent, no doubt about it but his decision making at times is abhorrent. He's so frustrating to watch at times. And that's coming from a Scottish, Scotland supporter. 

 

The only player I'd take from Celtic is McGregor and he'd be back up to Tilemans and Maddison.  Obviously I'd take Tierney but only if Chilwell left. 

 

I'd agree he was inconsistent but from the minute Rodgers came in the door, so for the last three years he has been pretty consistent for a wide player and his stats in terms of goals, assists and appearances back that up.  I made the point about Rogic in another thread, which kind of agrees with your point but if Forrest was at his best week in week out he would have been snatched away from Celtic a long time ago.  That said, like I said previously he has come on leaps and bounds in terms of consistency recently.  On your Scotland point he's been one of the few plus points in the last 12 months, scoring goals and making assists, scored a hat trick earlier in the season for example.

 

I don't agree with the comparison with Gray at all, I could count on one hand the number of decent games I've ever seen him have and based on that he's probably in the last chance saloon and will end up in the championship in a few years if not careful.  I just don't see Gray ever affecting games all that much at all, which Forrest in fairness when he's on song does.  You can mark this post and feel free to bump it next year but Gray will be one of the first players Rodgers will bomb out next season, he won't be a regular next season under Rodgers.  Gray has 8 goals and 6 assists in three years at Leicester which is a dreadful return, Forrest in Europe alone has probably delivered far more over the same period.

Edited by henrik_62

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I'd like to see us make a loan offer for Schürrle. He's out of favour at Dortmund, and has experience in the Prem. We probably can't afford another "big" signing if we get Tielemans, so I think this would be a cheap way to give us better wide options. His experience could also be useful for Gray & Barnes.

 

Wages are likely to be quite high, but as a short-term - and somewhat "safe" -  option, I'd like to see it happen. Hasn't been incredible this season, but he'd have more attacking opportunities here under Rodgers than he's had at Fulham.

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15 minutes ago, halfpipe said:

I'd like to see us make a loan offer for Schürrle. He's out of favour at Dortmund, and has experience in the Prem. We probably can't afford another "big" signing if we get Tielemans, so I think this would be a cheap way to give us better wide options. His experience could also be useful for Gray & Barnes.

 

Wages are likely to be quite high, but as a short-term - and somewhat "safe" -  option, I'd like to see it happen. Hasn't been incredible this season, but he'd have more attacking opportunities here under Rodgers than he's had at Fulham.

It's a shout, I'm 50/50 though,

 

I think Schürrle suffered from a case of "Peaked too soon" and didn't really live up to the hype after the 2014 WC. 

 

Saying that he'd be a great rotation player for a cup run, and provides a more experienced head on the wing. 

 

Go on Rudders work your magic.

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41 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

I'd agree he was inconsistent but from the minute Rodgers came in the door, so for the last three years he has been pretty consistent for a wide player and his stats in terms of goals, assists and appearances back that up.  I made the point about Rogic in another thread, which kind of agrees with your point but if Forrest was at his best week in week out he would have been snatched away from Celtic a long time ago.  That said, like I said previously he has come on leaps and bounds in terms of consistency recently.  On your Scotland point he's been one of the few plus points in the last 12 months, scoring goals and making assists, scored a hat trick earlier in the season for example.

 

I don't agree with the comparison with Gray at all, I could count on one hand the number of decent games I've ever seen him have and based on that he's probably in the last chance saloon and will end up in the championship in a few years if not careful.  I just don't see Gray ever affecting games all that much at all, which Forrest in fairness when he's on song does.  You can mark this post and feel free to bump it next year but Gray will be one of the first players Rodgers will bomb out next season, he won't be a regular next season under Rodgers.  Gray has 8 goals and 6 assists in three years at Leicester which is a dreadful return, Forrest in Europe alone has probably delivered far more over the same period.

I completely agree in terms of Gray. He's just not progressed since getting here. I was comparing more in the sense of consistency and decision making. Given the two I'd probably prefer Forrest but for the money Celtic would want, I feel there are better options out there (Bowen, Fraser). I agree about Forrests Scotland form however. Hes been excellent the last few games. 

 

Rogic is an interesting one. No doubt he has the quality to change games but no matter how much quality you have, you can't change a game when you're sitting on a bench, blowing out your arse, which hes guaranteed to be doing for 20 minutes every game. 

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