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Cujek

History of clubs

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History matters.

 

Only supporters of clubs that have never won anything say otherwise.

 

We have a league title and soon it will just be history but good luck trying to tell me to forget about it and that it doesn't matter.  I will cherish that for the rest of my life.  It is in the bank forever and gives us bragging rights over out peers such as Southampton, West Ham, Watford etc.  No one can ever come to our ground again and sing "You've never won f*** all".

 

It definitely matters.

 

The flip side to this is that there are clubs with better history than ours, Villa included.  Just accept it, don't try to argue against it.  They have a better history, we have a better present and future.

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13 hours ago, Fox92 said:

I don't like all this 'big club' shite because it's about now but Villa are the biggest club in the Championship by a distance and Villa Park is a cracking old 'proper' ground. I wish they were in the PL.

 

But if somebody is choosing a club based on their history then they're choosing wrong.

I wouldn't say "by a distance", unless trophy count is literally your only metric.

 

 

1 hour ago, murphy said:

History matters.

 

Only supporters of clubs that have never won anything say otherwise.

 

We have a league title and soon it will just be history but good luck trying to tell me to forget about it and that it doesn't matter.  I will cherish that for the rest of my life.  It is in the bank forever and gives us bragging rights over out peers such as Southampton, West Ham, Watford etc.  No one can ever come to our ground again and sing "You've never won f*** all".

 

It definitely matters.

 

The flip side to this is that there are clubs with better history than ours, Villa included.  Just accept it, don't try to argue against it.  They have a better history, we have a better present and future.

I wouldn't blame anyone for doing that given we've decided to sing "Champions of England, you'll never sing that" to clubs like Everton.

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I think that Leicester's title win is not only part of our history but we made history generally.  Worldwide!

 

Our title was a miracle.  We won the title at odds of 5,000-1 and no other club can say that.  OP should thank his Villa supporting mate for the role that his club played in making history,  That 3-2 at the KP was a pivotal moment in the campaign.  Thanks Villa.

 

 

 

 

Edited by murphy

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When the crowd are singing "Champions of England, you'll never sing that" when we're back in the Championship, it's our destiny to yo-yo I'm sure history will count then. :ph34r::P:unsure::whistle:

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Football club historians and the like must have one of the easiest jobs in the industry tbh.

Researching on their beloved clubs' past since they were first formed and making books/speeches etc out of it.

Just be a nice and nostalgic job for them.

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17 hours ago, Cujek said:

So, I was having a debate (argument) with a friend of mine, he is a Villa supporter, apart from the fact he isn't from Birmingham I haven't really got a problem with him being a Villa fan.

 

But he Really seems to have beef with Leicester, he was trying to argue with me that we have no history and that we will be going back to mediocrity, because We "have had to many managers" I tried to explain that unless he had watched every single second of Puels reign that he really had no opinion that matters.

 

Anyway on to the point of the post. He kept going about how many European cups had we won, how many league titles, how many FA cups soon and so On, my point was who cares about History?

 

Ask Man City if history matters, go ask Leeds or Forest if their history matters at the moment.

 

I don't see what relevance winning a European cup in 1982 has today.

 

Does a 20 year old looking at choosing a club cares if a club won 7 league titles before they was even born.

 

Surely all that matters is now and the fact is we are premier league club, Villa and several other clubs with "history" are mid table championship teams and have been for a while.

 

TLDR; my mate is a salty jealous Villa fan who thinks achievements feom 40 years ago matter today.

TABLE.thumb.jpg.a1655bd8d1fb5caf39ccdd5b5de1d760.jpg

 

/ARGUMENT

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4 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

I wouldn't say "by a distance", unless trophy count is literally your only metric.

 

I think they are. Villa have won double of what Leeds and Wednesday have (people always bang on about these being 'big' despite the fact both haven't played in the top flight since early 00's) and their support also matches these clubs.

 

I don't know what else to judge on.

 

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I think the "history" argument is actually a valid one if you're trying to define this subjective assessment of "bigness".

 

For example: Manchester United will always be considered a really big club and it's unlikely they will ever struggle. That's because of their history and that, if they ever did get into financial difficulty, there would always be a queue of people waiting to come in and bail them out. That's because of the massive opportunity that investing in something like Manchester United with all its prestige and history would bring. Liverpool are in similar territory.

 

History, however, by definition changes over time. Look how Manchester City and Chelsea have broken into the elite. They've created their own history of success relatively recently and that big club perception will now be self perpetuating for some time. But when you look at other, historically big clubs, that perception has now faded through time. Do we think Preston are a big club despite their massive success in the late nineteenth century? What about Huddersfield in the 1920s? Wolves in the 50s? Derby in the 70s? Forest in the 80s? You see my point?

 

I started watching Leicester in the late 1980s. I definitely saw Forest and Villa as much bigger clubs that ours, but Derby less so. Now I don't really see Forest as a bigger club than us at all despite their two European Cups. I think Villa are on the cusp of being just another faded giant like Leeds, Wolves, Newcastle, Sunderland and many others. Another couple of seasons in the Championship and I think that their big club credentials will really start to disappear with time.

 

For us - we now have a recent Premier League win and probably need a couple of cup wins or European qualification to keep our star high. That's the history we need to create until our "bigness" becomes self sustaining.

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7 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

I wouldn't say "by a distance", unless trophy count is literally your only metric.

 

 

I wouldn't blame anyone for doing that given we've decided to sing "Champions of England, you'll never sing that" to clubs like Everton.

'...you'll never sing that' - the future

 

'...you've never sung that' - the past.

 

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I think a lot of the fans who bring this up are fans of teams like Villa, Forest, Newcastle etc. were essentially jealous of us winning the league. They think that given their histories (in some cases ancient history) that it should’ve been them winning it and that they have some sort of divine right to be above us in the leagues. I wonder whether Preston fans back in the 1920s (after living through the very successful 1880s their side had) were saying to Liverpool fans “you’ve got no history” and started getting bitter when Liverpool were crowned with a defining recent achievement. Just goes to show it matters sweet fa in the grand scheme of things 

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23 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

'...you'll never sing that' - the future

 

'...you've never sung that' - the past.

 

So you're telling me Man United fans wouldn't be ridiculed for singing it at Liverpool on the basis that it's gramatically correct? lol

 

Come on. We all know that chant implies "you'll never sing that" because you've never won it before and will never win it in future.

 

Our fans aren't some pioneers for terrace wit here - we're just being thick and ignorant.

 

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20 hours ago, Izzy said:

Do you mean a 20 year old player or supporter?

 

If your a 20 year old supporter and haven't yet chosen a club then there's something wrong.

 

And you don't chose your club, your club chooses you :thumbup:

absolutely izzy.

you don't choose your club, its usually in your blood. like you said your club chooses you. unless you're one of these glory hunting fckwits that go,  them there are my team!  I seen them on t.v they are winning trophies, I want to be seen to be a winner! il get one of their shirts.

it's not how it works you tart!

 

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19 hours ago, fazzyfox said:

I used to have a system / theory of "First sticker book", which is essentially that the divisions that the clubs are in in your first sticker book are where they belong and that everything else is a temporary diversion until the natural order is resumed!

But my first sticker book was Mexico '86! :P  (Didn't manage to complete it, either :( )

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58 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

So you're telling me Man United fans wouldn't be ridiculed for singing it at Liverpool on the basis that it's gramatically correct? lol

 

Come on. We all know that chant implies "you'll never sing that" because you've never won it before and will never win it in future.

 

Our fans aren't some pioneers for terrace wit here - we're just being thick and ignorant.

 

It's so embarrassing. 

 

I remember being at Hull, that first game of the season, and them clapping us and congratulating us and then sections of our fans started singing that.

 

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You can’t disregard history but when examining the relevance of success I think you can only regard post war performance. That separates out most of the success from provincial northern towns who haven’t really come close to repeating their success. 

 

We’re 21st here

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Post-WW2_Top_Flight_Table.htm

 

12th here

http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Post-WWIIEnglishTrophyWinners1945-46to2008-09.html

 

So for me club size is a mixture of historical success, the size of the fanbase and recent performance. 

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2 hours ago, RutlanderFox said:

I think a lot of the fans who bring this up are fans of teams like Villa, Forest, Newcastle etc. were essentially jealous of us winning the league. They think that given their histories (in some cases ancient history) that it should’ve been them winning it and that they have some sort of divine right to be above us in the leagues. I wonder whether Preston fans back in the 1920s (after living through the very successful 1880s their side had) were saying to Liverpool fans “you’ve got no history” and started getting bitter when Liverpool were crowned with a defining recent achievement. Just goes to show it matters sweet fa in the grand scheme of things 

it is the basic jealousy of a 41 year old man that when he started supporting villa, were a big club, now they not and he is bitter

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This big club thing is really ****ing boring now. Football media outlets love it because it creates debate, but it's all subjective.

 

History, fanbase and current position are the three factors.

 

Aston Villa have a much better history than us and a larger fanbase but would I swap our Premier League win for a European Cup that I never even got to see? No ****ing chance.

 

Would I leave Sunderland for Bournemouth? Of course I would.

 

It's something that fans of shit teams comfort themselves with. (Celtic)

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I remember Sunderland fans calling us tinpot, the year we won the league, yet they haven’t won a trophy for nearly 50 years, and most of there league titles was in the 1890s.

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4 hours ago, dayday said:

I remember Sunderland fans calling us tinpot, the year we won the league, yet they haven’t won a trophy for nearly 50 years, and most of there league titles was in the 1890s.

 

Sunderland a tinpot town, a nothing town , smaller then Leicester in population , football is all they have in that miserable dump and their hatred of Newcastle.

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Leicester, RB Leipzig, etc. are examples of teams that are trying to upset the established order of world football. Even though other clubs might have been charmed by our miracle title win, the majority prefer the status quo over parity.

 

Even more salty are the supporters of clubs that have not been able to keep up with the evolution of modern football. We saw how upset Celtic supporters were, because losing their manager to a "smaller" premier league club was a reality check that they are not the European giants they pretend to be. 

 

The reality is there are maybe 10 "Big" teams in Europe, and they might even walk away from their domestic competitions to form a super league which would stop any blue bloods from joining their ranks. 

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