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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

She didn't say all men, she said male violence. The former would be bollocks the latter, is undeniably a reasonably big issue, just raised at entirely the wrong moment and not in a great way.

Not in agreement with you here at all. She isnt saying anything to be helpful.

Imagine saying prostitution exists because women are so damn slutty

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Horrendous this is. Why cant these extremists wipe one another out instead of targeting innocent people? They should all meet up on an island no one cares about and have a bomb off and shoot off. The last one standing then gets to smear himself in fish paste and jump in to a tank of piranhas and they then reach the highest possible standing that could be bestowed upon someone, as well as being dead.

 

Absolute fcukin cretins.

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Controversial thing to say, but the worst effects of this shooting are yet to come.

 

I've seen the 4chan/8chan threads with multiple posts supporting/glorifying the massacre. I expect many like me have for the first time today seen these forums and the ideology of a lot of the sub-forum posters on there. There will be racist people stumbling upon these forums, the 'manifesto' etc, who will find a place for their hatred to fester and influence others. The far right extremist community will only grow from this event. Let us not forget that this sort of event is golden for Islamist groups, how best to spread their ideology that the west hates them. I can only see an escalation and retaliation of attacks on both sides leading to the loss of many more lives.

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1 minute ago, Wrighty22 said:

Expect to see a retiation here. Not at all condoning it but just imagine the extremists will want revenge. 

This wont ever stop. Extreme nut bars on both sides have their own agendas. Something we have to live with unfortunately unless people are down for nanny states.  When we live in multicultural societies there will always be those who have an axe to grind with different cultures, religions, colour, sexual preference etc etc. Is whar it is. A large amount of us respect and appreciate one another regardless of our backgrounds etc.

 

Its almost as if we need an island to put all these terrorists on and let them kill each other into extinction. Problem is you cant identify all the crazies so just boils back to it being a part of the current landscape.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Shut them down.  We should be actively killing these forums.

 

Most of it is on the Dark Web, Jon.

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I don't know where to begin.

 

The internet is full of angry people who are angry at just about everything, fuelled by anything and everything, the media sensationalising stories, politicians saying anything for a vote, fake news. They're Angry at the EU, Angry at the Government, Angry at the media,  Angry at business, Angry at immigrants, Angry at Muslims, Angry at Tony Blair for getting us involved in a Muslim war. Everything is someone else's fault.

 

Anyone stands up to them and they're squealing "Free Speech!! Free Speech" . Most of them have a limited degree of self control but there's always going to be a few.

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31 minutes ago, Babylon said:

I've imagined it and it's not remotely similar. 

Please tell me how this massacre is related to men in general

 

Or rather, tell me what "male violence" is.

 

Is it different from female violence? Are soldiers who fought against the nazis problematically violent males?

Edited by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

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11 minutes ago, Livid said:

I don't know where to begin.

 

The internet is full of angry people who are angry at just about everything, fuelled by anything and everything, the media sensationalising stories, politicians saying anything for a vote, fake news. They're Angry at the EU, Angry at the Government, Angry at the media,  Angry at business, Angry at immigrants, Angry at Muslims, Angry at Tony Blair for getting us involved in a Muslim war. Everything is someone else's fault.

 

Said 'Livid'.

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19 minutes ago, Line-X said:

Said 'Livid'.

I've mellowed , 20 years ago one dodgy refereeing decision and I would be halfway down the steps of the Carling upper tier ready to explain 'politely' to the ref that eye tests were available nationally. :thumbup:

 

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19 minutes ago, Izzy said:

And this is the problem with most of society - they live their lives 'outside-in' rather than 'inside-out'.

 

People go through life thinking other people or external events make them feel a certain way, but that's bollux. We are all responsible which means we are response-able and capable of choosing our response to things. 

 

It's just a cop out to blame everything and be angry at everything. It's not the thing that's the issue, it's our thinking about the thing that makes us feel a certain way.

 

Spot on, bro.

 

You are what you think.

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It's an absolute travasty, horrible to think people like this exist. 

 

There are active members of this forum however,  who when something like this happens and it's an 'Islamic terrorist' are very very vocal however have not said a word with regards to today's events...says a lot really :(

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7 hours ago, MC Prussian said:

Not trying to jump to conclusions already, but let's wait what the investigation and trial uncover.

ISIS kill in the name of Islam, these people, these extremists all share a common belief, have been indoctrinated by religious leaders and passages in a certain book and operate in hordes, hardly ever alone - it remains to be seen whether the sicko in Christchurch acted on his own or not.

 

Thoughts with and prayers to all the families and people directly affected by this tragedy in New Zealand.

I can’t agree with this. There is no difference. White supremacy is exactly the same as islamic fundamentalism. It’s born out of ideology which classes one group of people far higher then another. These beliefs are made up of a number of groups (most of which are fighting amongst themselves) and people but the fundamental beliefs of someone within such faction is the same. Regardless of whether this imbecile is associated with a particular group or not, he represents the cancer that is white supremacy - everyone within that belief system whether it be a member of the Ku Klux Klan or the National Front is to blame. Just like an attack from an Islamic fundamentalist group (I.e. ISIS or Al Qaeda) It is a perverse interpretation of what is right (in their minds) that leads them to such actions. There is no difference. It’s dangerous to suggest otherwise. An attack like this is proof.

 

He belongs to a group, that group is those who accept the white supremacy movement. Unfortunately, as today showed, it’s the innocent members of society who suffer and for one simple reason, they’re different to the coward.

 

If I have misunderstood what you have said I am sorry. 

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2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Most of it is on the Dark Web, Jon.

4chan / 8chan aren't. When I was younger, I used to browse 4chan a bit. I remember seeing a live thread of a bloke posting comments and photos about how he killed his girlfriend and left her for her kid to find. Low and behold, a fee hours later it was in the news and he was arrested. I also once saw a thread where someone had posted a photo outside a school and said "guess what". Obviously lots of comments egging him on and all that disgusting stuff. And again, about an hour later, in the news of an active shooter within that exact school. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure why I browsed 4chan. It didn't fit with any of my beliefs and I didn't agree with 99% of the shit on there. But had i have been of less sound mind I can now see how these forums can be a hotbed of radicalisation of "normal" young people, all the one-upmanship and everyone trying to out-outrage each other. There is no real need for these websites and there have been multiple crimes to come from them, all well-documented. I feel awful for having ever even viewed these pages. The two I witnessed were harrowing and are things I still remember to this day.

 

 

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1 hour ago, AlloverthefloorYesNdidi said:

Please tell me how this massacre is related to men in general

 

Or rather, tell me what "male violence" is.

 

Is it different from female violence? Are soldiers who fought against the nazis problematically violent males?

You seem to be missing the point massively.

 

How many women do you see smashing peoples faces in on nights out? Violent bullying at school, violent crimes, muggings, stabbings, murders, domestic abuse, terrorism etc etc etc. If you can't see that men in general are far more violent than women then I don't know where you live to not see it from a very young age. That's not to say women aren't capable, they are but it's as clear as day then men in general are far more violent than women. 

 

Her point is stupid, because there is a lot more in play here than just being a man, but there is a grain of truth to what she was saying. Despite it being the wrong time, overplayed and badly put across. 

 

Nazi's... we're at Godwin's law here in about three posts, that's some going. 

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10 minutes ago, Kopic said:

4chan / 8chan aren't. When I was younger, I used to browse 4chan a bit. I remember seeing a live thread of a bloke posting comments and photos about how he killed his girlfriend and left her for her kid to find. Low and behold, a fee hours later it was in the news and he was arrested. I also once saw a thread where someone had posted a photo outside a school and said "guess what". Obviously lots of comments egging him on and all that disgusting stuff. And again, about an hour later, in the news of an active shooter within that exact school. To be perfectly honest I'm not sure why I browsed 4chan. It didn't fit with any of my beliefs and I didn't agree with 99% of the shit on there. But had i have been of less sound mind I can now see how these forums can be a hotbed of radicalisation of "normal" young people, all the one-upmanship and everyone trying to out-outrage each other. There is no real need for these websites and there have been multiple crimes to come from them, all well-documented. I feel awful for having ever even viewed these pages. The two I witnessed were harrowing and are things I still remember to this day.

 

 

 

What you see on the Web and what's on the DW are two very different things, I promise you.

 

Avoiding detection and censorship is the whole point of its existence.

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19 minutes ago, Babylon said:

You seem to be missing the point massively.

 

How many women do you see smashing peoples faces in on nights out? Violent bullying at school, violent crimes, muggings, stabbings, murders, domestic abuse, terrorism etc etc etc. If you can't see that men in general are far more violent than women then I don't know where you live to not see it from a very young age. That's not to say women aren't capable, they are but it's as clear as day then men in general are far more violent than women. 

 

Her point is stupid, because there is a lot more in play here than just being a man, but there is a grain of truth to what she was saying. Despite it being the wrong time, overplayed and badly put across. 

 

Nazi's... we're at Godwin's law here in about three posts, that's some going. 

Men being more violent than women is of course true, thats a completely separate thing to this crime - you've watched one too many gillette ads

 

Christchurch is about ideology and racism. Shoehorning the gender debate into it hours after it happened is reprehensible, or rather, it would be reprehensible except she doesnt realise how bad it is because she is probably so obsessed with this absurd gender debate that goes on these days she doesnt realise she looks at everything through that lens

 

Ive stated it simply as these rhetorical points im making dont seem to be landing. I think what she has said there is completely absurd and so ive given examples of things i think equally absurd

Edited by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi
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3 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Shut them down.  We should be actively killing these forums.

 

2 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Most of it is on the Dark Web, Jon.

 

It's not the dark Web and we can't kill them. The dark Web in itself might be an issue, rife with paedophiles, terrorists, hackers and whatever else but most of these forums are public domain. That makes it way, way worse than the dark Web because any angry little 14 year old incel can find 8chan and start getting indoctrinated. 

 

You can't get rid of them because they pop up again instantly with a new domain in hours, you can't really get rid of anything on the Internet, you can't really police it. 

 

That's why you shouldn't try. You need to stop just simply looking to ban these communities because I promise you, all you do then is feed in to the persecution complex and the rebel complex of these kids. 

 

It's a terrifying mix of subcultures and it is a social issue that's been quietly bubbling away for years and Nedry is right, up until today most of the world's adults won't even know they exist. 

 

But simply outlawing it doesn't work. These kids already think they're outlaws you'll just entrench them. We need to look at why society is driving them the way they are. What's making them angry, what's making them radicalised. Why do they feel so alienated by day to day life? 

 

Because if "we" (normal people) don't try and reach out to them, alt right Breitbart filth will keep doing so and the situation will get scarier. 

Edited by Finnegan
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16 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

It's not the dark Web and we can't kill them. The dark Web in itself might be an issue, rife with paedophiles, terrorists, hackers and whatever else but most of these forums are public domain. That makes it way, way worse than the dark Web because any angry little 14 year old incel can find 8chan and start getting indoctrinated. 

 

You can't get rid of them because they pop up again instantly with a new domain in hours, you can't really get rid of anything on the Internet, you can't really police it. 

 

That's why you shouldn't try. You need to stop just simply looking to ban these communities because I promise you, all you do then is feed in to the persecution complex and the rebel complex of these kids. 

 

It's a terrifying mix of subcultures and it is a social issue that's been quietly bubbling away for years and Nedry is right, up until today most of the world's adults won't even know they exist. 

 

But simply outlawing it doesn't work. These kids already think they're outlaws you'll just entrench them. We need to look at why society is driving them the way they are. What's making them angry, what's making them radicalised. Why do they feel so alienated by day to day life? 

 

Because if "we" (normal people) don't try and reach out to them, alt right Breitbart filth will keep doing so and the situation will get scarier. 

 

Have you ever actually accessed the DW? Do you know anyone else who has?

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7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Have you ever actually accessed the DW? Do you know anyone else who has?

 

No and no and that's exactly my point, Buce. I'm not denying that there is a thing called the dark Web and it may well be full of very scary people. 

 

But my point is that the vast majority of these gamergate, alt right radicals are rife on the good old fashioned, common or garden, regular Internet. 

 

There are incel subreddits disguised as other common topics where young white men are actively discussing raping  and murdering women and children in graphic detail and legitimising it by inventing a subculture in which they are the victims. Reddit take them down, but then they just pop back up. 

 

There are gamergate imageboards discussing white power and ethnic cleansing where slogans like this guy's "remove kebab", originally coming from EU4 ffs, a strategy game, are popularised as racist memes. 

 

They war against "SJW cucks", using swatting, harrasment, hacking etc to victimise perceived leftists egalitarians. 

 

Again, these imageboards eventually get taken down by their providers but they'll just go and make a new one with a different domain suffix and start again. 

 

The dark Web is irrelevant, you don't NEED a dark web, most of these kids wouldn't have a clue how to even get on to it, they're so brazen they don't care. 

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