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Notre Dame

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It's a catastrophe. Apart from Donald Trump, am I the only person who thinks that the amount of water being pumped in seems wholly inadequate? The river is nearby.

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17 minutes ago, String fellow said:

It's a catastrophe. Apart from Donald Trump, am I the only person who thinks that the amount of water being pumped in seems wholly inadequate? The river is nearby.

 

You have to imagine there's a balance they've got to try and strike between getting the fire out and trying to not do even more damage. 

 

I imagine they've got the best firefighters in the city on it, I'm sure they know what they're doing. 

 

I'm pretty confident dumping a plane full of water tanker over it is not a good idea. 

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5 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

You have to imagine there's a balance they've got to try and strike between getting the fire out and trying to not do even more damage. 

 

I imagine they've got the best firefighters in the city on it, I'm sure they know what they're doing. 

 

I'm pretty confident dumping a plane full of water tanker over it is not a good idea. 

Yeah. It looks to me like they're trying to train the water on the towers to prevent the spread of the fire. But you're correct, I'm sure they know what they're doing. Can't imagine any world leader except that bellend Trump offering advice on how to fight the fire! 

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6 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

Yeah. It looks to me like they're trying to train the water on the towers to prevent the spread of the fire. But you're correct, I'm sure they know what they're doing. Can't imagine any world leader except that bellend Trump offering advice on how to fight the fire! 

 

Yeah firefighting is a slow, patient practice. You don't just dump a **** tonne of water on something and blast it out as quickly as possible. You watch any major blaze and it takes hours of careful hosing to put out. 

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Ah well it's only a building end of the day, one less thing for the French to Bragg about

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-28112373

 

York Minster fire in July 1984 - here is a BBC report on the 30th anniversary of that event. Took four years to repair the roof of the Minster.

 

York's divisional fire commander was fast asleep when the phone rang in the early hours of 9 July 1984. But within minutes, Alan Stow was fighting to save the city's most significant building from destruction.

Thirty years on, witnesses clearly remember the devastation caused by a lightning bolt which set fire to York Minster's south transept - destroying its roof and causing £2.25m worth of damage. 

"My immediate thought was disbelief," Mr Stow said, remembering the 3am phone call. "Knowing the minster as I did and its security and fire defences, I thought, 'This can't be true'. 

"Then I got onto Tadcaster Road and I could see the glow in the sky." 

The previous night had been a "peculiar", airless evening during a hot, dry summer, said Mr Stow. The fire crew in York spent part of it watching lightning zip across the sky.

Minster fireImage copyrightYORK MINSTER Image captionMore than 100 firefighters tackled the blaze in the south transept of the church

Just a few hours later, at 02:35 BST, the control room at Northallerton received word the minster was ablaze. By the time Mr Stow arrived at 03:10, a third of the roof had been obliterated.

"The burning timbers were exposed and the fire was progressing rapidly," he said. "Bits of burning debris were leaping into the sky and the fire had almost spread through to the central tower." 

It became clear the roof was beyond saving and bringing it down was necessary to save the rest of the building. 

MINSTER FIRES

York Minster was no stranger to fire: 

  • In 1753 fire broke out in the south transept. It is thought the cause was due to workmen leaving burning coals. 
  • Jonathan Martin torched the choir area in 1829. The fire destroyed that part of the minster but the east end was saved. Martin was arrested and, having been declared insane, taken to an asylum.
  • Just 11 years later, in 1840, the minster was ablaze again. The entire nave roof and vault were destroyed. It is thought a candle was left unattended. 

"[We positioned] a water jet onto the burnt timbers and they went down like a row of dominoes," said Mr Stow. 

"They thundered down. I wouldn't have believed that a stone floor could shake but my word, it did." 

Crews from across North Yorkshire were called to the scene, with 114 firefighters tackling the blaze.

Meanwhile, minster staff and clergy were removing as many artefacts as possible from the building.

John David, master mason at the minster, was one of those involved in the salvage operation.

"It was quite a traumatic night, it was surreal," he said.

"There was a fear the whole thing would go up, but we were busy getting the valuables out. 

"The next day people were in tears and very upset, but as craftsmen, the first thing we thought was 'let's put it back, let's rebuild it'.

"There was no doubt we could do it. We wanted to put it back to the way it was."

York Minster Image captionAn investigation concluded it was 80% possible the fire was started by a lightning bolt

By 05:24, the fire was under control, and as morning broke, the true scale of the devastation became clear.

An investigation into the cause of the fire ruled out an electrical or gas fault, while arson was discounted due to inaccessibility of the roof. 

Some churchgoers feared the fire was a sign from God in response to the consecration at the minster three days earlier of the Bishop of Durham, David Jenkins.

He had made the news for saying he did not believe in the physical resurrection of Christ.

But subsequent tests concluded the fire was "almost certainly" caused by lightning striking a metal electrical box inside the roof.

However, with the evidence destroyed in the blaze, the official report could only conclude it was "80% possible" the fire was caused by lightning, and 10% each for arson and electrical fault.

A restoration project to return the building to its former glory was finally completed in 1988, at a cost of £2.25m.

Minster fireImage copyrightYORK MINSTER Image captionThe rose window cracked in about 40,000 places but was saved by York Glaziers Trust

The site's masonry team spent a year re-carving bosses and stonework above the rose window and arches, while half a dozen bosses were designed by children in a competition run by Blue Peter.

It is thought the rose window, designed in the 16th Century to celebrate the marriage of King Henry VII and Elizabeth of York in 1486, reached temperatures of 450C (842F) during the fire.

The glass cracked in about 40,000 places but was saved following painstaking work by York Glaziers Trust. 

Bob Littlewood, former superintendent of works at the minster, was instrumental in replacing the vaulted ceiling and roof, which were gutted in the blaze.

The day after the fire he was offered 260 oak trees by people wanting to help rebuild the minster and tasked with convincing the church authorities to let him rebuild the roof with timber, in keeping with the original design. 

Wood was agreed upon as the preferred material but on condition that parts of the new structure would be coated with fire-retardant plaster.

York Minster Image captionThe restoration of York Minster was done in keeping with the original design

"Everything was gone," Mr Littlewood said. "We had to literally start from scratch.

"I didn't want anything modern and we all felt it should be done traditionally. Thankfully the Dean and Chapter agreed and I had the staff who were capable of doing the work."

Four years after the fire destroyed the south transept, the restoration was completed. It was a year ahead of schedule and thanks to the generosity of public donations, coupled with insurance money.

Mr Littlewood said: "Everyone buckled down and helped. It was a tremendous challenge, but I felt delighted at the end of the day. 

"It was such a success and in fact, a big improvement on what was there before."

 

 

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6 hours ago, StanSP said:

Decent thread... 

 

this guy appears to know his shit. I notice he doesn't mention dumping a gazillion litres of water from a low flying aircraft over one of the busiest cities in the world as a good idea.lol

 

 

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I liked this piece.

 

Civilisation only ever hangs by a thread. Today one of those threads seems to have frayed, perhaps snapped. It is impossible to watch the footage coming out of Paris, all that can be done is to groan and turn away. It is not possible to watch the spire of Notre Dame collapse. It is not possible to watch the great cathedral consumed by fire.

 

Evelyn Waugh once said that in the event of a fire in his house, if he was able only to save his children or his library, he would save his library because books were irreplaceable. Only at a moment such as this is it possible to concede the slightest truth in that remark. Almost anything could be borne rather than the loss of this building.

There will be recriminations, of course. There will be disputes about budgets, and overtime and safety standards and much more. It is worth reading this piece from two years ago about the funding problems that existed around the cathedral’s restoration. But if Notre Dame can burn then all this is as nothing, because it tells us something too deep to bear. As I said a couple of years ago in a book, in some ways the future of civilisation in Europe will be decided by our attitude towards the great churches and other cultural buildings of our heritage standing in our midst. Do we contend with them, ignore them, engage with them or continue to revere them? Do we preserve them?

 

Though politicians may imagine that ages are judged on the minutiae of government policy, they are not. They are judged on what they leave behind: most of all on how they treat what the past has handed into their care. Even if today’s disaster was simply the most freakish of accidents, ours would still be the era that lost Notre Dame.

 

We would have to tell future generations what it was like, this treasure that we lost. At the start of this decade I was living part of each week in Paris, commuting back and forth to a little flat on the edge of Le Marais. Each time I headed out to the earliest Eurostar on a Monday morning I would see the great cathedral first as I turned into the street.

 

One winter morning heavy snow was falling and as I headed to the station I stopped dead, alone in the street with the cathedral and just drinking in the sight of a building I had seen a hundred times before. When I got into London a friend could see I was just beaming still, radiating far too much joy for such a time of the week. He asked how I was and I remember simply saying, ‘This morning I saw Notre Dame in the snow’. It was like that.

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Nice to see a couple of French billionaires have already pledged a few hundred million euro to help rebuild it. Hopefully they can restore it back to its former glory.

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1 hour ago, davieG said:

This sums it up for me.

 

Notre Dame Cathedral has caught fire - it is sad, it is tragic, it is unimaginable. But while you jump to you tweets, and your thought's and prayers and your sudden kinship with history and paris, remember that each day you local authorities are sanctioning the demolition of the history that has formed your homes and countries, in the name of profit and business. Maybe these places aren't as remarkable as Notre Dame, but next time you see the treasures of your town threatened with a bulldozer without a care, make sure your voice is heard - our history is all around us, but when it is gone, it is gone, without any chance of ever being rebuilt.

What, you mean like the bowstring bridge and the Belgrave flyover?

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On 10/04/2019 at 19:09, davieG said:

This

 

56697008_10156443217583517_5777618104255

to be replaced by this.

 

On 18/02/2019 at 14:40, davieG said:

The problem is allowing this

 

PalaceTheatre.jpg

 

to be replaced by this

 

SiteOfPalaceTheatre.jpg

 

 

and this

 

TheatreRoyalFrontage.jpg

 

by this

 

SiteNow1.jpg

 

and this

 

2751864.jpg

Was originally the Temperance Hall

 

with this

 

TemperanceHallSite.jpg

 

9 minutes ago, Parafox said:

What, you mean like the bowstring bridge and the Belgrave flyover?

Sarcasm very good, You mean the unique Bowstring Bridge yes but also plenty of others like those shown above.

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The worlds richest tax avoiding corporation that abuses children, is racist, misogynist and corrupt to its core. 

Thoughts and prayers

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5 hours ago, ozleicester said:

Has anyone asked why god is burning down churches?

 

1 minute ago, ozleicester said:

The worlds richest tax avoiding corporation that abuses children, is racist, misogynist and corrupt to its core. 

Thoughts and prayers

If your reaction to seeing an 850 year old piece of history burn down is this then maybe your thinking needs to be a little deeper than you have convinced yourself it already is.

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It's sad to lose it in its original state, the craftsmanship was unbelievable and it's an incredible shame for something that has been standing for such a long time to be reduced to ashes. 

 

It won't ever be the same, however I imagine construction and architectural assessments would have been made over the years to the point where it could be reconstructed almost exactly.

 

 

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Just now, RoboFox said:

It's sad to lose it in its original state, the craftsmanship was unbelievable and it's an incredible shame for something that has been standing for such a long time to be reduced to ashes. 

 

It won't ever be the same, however I imagine construction and architectural assessments would have been made over the years to the point where it could be reconstructed almost exactly.

 

 

A nice side effect will be it will allow people with ancient/dying craftsmanship to be able to use their skills to rebuild it as per the original.

 

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