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Harvey Barnes

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You are obsessed with "wingers," ffs what is a winger,  this is not the 1950s and Stanley Matthews. Barnes is not a winger, he is a striker and creator of goals, the latter of which he is doing pretty well, he also has goal chances and he is not taking them but when he starts doing that he is going to be one hell of a player. I want to see double figures for him, Perez and Maddison this season with a decent contribution from Tielmans. If they do that we are nailed on top four.  Oh and by the way long ago England won the world cup without "wingers".

Edited by An Sionnach

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12 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

You are obsessed with "wingers," ffs what is a winger,  this is not the 1950s and Stanley Matthews. Barnes is not a winger, he is a striker and creator of goals, the latter of which he is doing pretty well, he also has goal chances and he is not taking them but when he starts doing that he is going to be one hell of a player. I want to see double figures for him, Perez and Maddison this season with a decent contribution from Tielmans. If they do that we are nailed on top four.  Oh and by the way long ago England won the world cup without "wingers".

"Wingers":doh: I've been fighting on that hill since Rodgers came here and there's no winning that battle.

Best to retreat now with your sanity intact than to continue banging your head against the wall.

 

Think Liverpool is the best example with an attacking interchangeable front three. Strikers and wingers have multiple tasks that overlap in that type of system.

 

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On 15/12/2019 at 20:48, An Sionnach said:

It's a pity Kev Phillips is no longer at the club, he could be a big help to Barnes, Iheanacho and Gray. 

I hope Vardy can help coach them. Vardy is now way better than Kev Phillips.

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2 hours ago, Bazly said:

I'd rather have the youthful prospect that is Barnes over a going nowhere Gray any day. At least Barnes has scope for development and has the physique to muscle players, Gray isn't developing into anything beyond a cameo player in what is too often a tragic comedic cameo role. 

I'd much rather we spend some money and get a winger that can provide both assists and goals.

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

 

 

This isn't just about Barnes either, all of our wingers are frustrating. I can't believe the lack of time Albrighton gets considering. 

Perez I'd keep and play

Barnes I'd keep for the future

Gray I'd let go

Albrighton, we know what he can do but he doesn't give enough goals or assists and I don't expect him to improve.

 

Time to buy a new winger.

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11 minutes ago, SO1 said:

"Wingers":doh: I've been fighting on that hill since Rodgers came here and there's no winning that battle.

Best to retreat now with your sanity intact than to continue banging your head against the wall.

 

Think Liverpool is the best example with an attacking interchangeable front three. Strikers and wingers have multiple tasks that overlap in that type of system.

 

I agree with you entirely and shall now shut up about it.

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46 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

I agree with you entirely and shall now shut up about it.

Didn't mean it like that. Just wanted you to know that you're not alone.:) Always looking for new or different insights into the modern game.

 

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2 hours ago, HighPeakFox said:

I think we might be over-reacting a bit.

People never learn, half the time it’s the same people that was banging the drum for chillwell to be dropped and criticising Ndidi for his passing.

 

How can you expect young players to improve if they don’t play.

 

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53 minutes ago, Bobby Hundreds said:

Hopefully he marries someone called Miss/Mr Door. 

That comment and Ahmadinejad's photo together. Masterful Performance Sir.

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2 minutes ago, HankMarvin said:

 

 

How can you expect young players to improve if they don’t play.

 

Agree. That's the problem with having a successful side but we can't afford to bed players in indefinitely.

 

Also with building a squad. We don't have the quality to drop/rest players when they fall out of form and work their way back.

If we're going to compete for league, top 4, and cups then something has to give. These are good problems for us to have.

I'm sure Rodgers will find a way to work this out as he's not going to waste anyone's talent that's for sure. Its a fine line to walk given our current success.

Going to take time to work out.

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1 minute ago, SO1 said:

Agree. That's the problem with having a successful side but we can't afford to bed players in indefinitely.

 

Also with building a squad. We don't have the quality to drop/rest players when they fall out of form and work their way back.

If we're going to compete for league, top 4, and cups then something has to give. These are good problems for us to have.

I'm sure Rodgers will find a way to work this out as he's not going to waste anyone's talent that's for sure. Its a fine line to walk given our current success.

Going to take time to work out.

Barnes has played the bulk of the time in the team that got us to second place, we haven't signed anyone better so who exactly are we dropping him for? Albrighton? he doesn't do what you seem to want from a winger.

 

I suppose we could move Ricardo there and bring Justin in but when that was done under the previous manager people were not happy with Ricardo being picked on the wing

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1 minute ago, Jimmy said:

Barnes has played the bulk of the time in the team that got us to second place, we haven't signed anyone better so who exactly are we dropping him for? Albrighton? he doesn't do what you seem to want from a winger.

 

I suppose we could move Ricardo there and bring Justin in but when that was done under the previous manager people were not happy with Ricardo being picked on the wing

 

We're not dropping him because there is no one better and that's the problem we face right now. The depth of our squad and the time it takes to build one.

We need more competition(real) for places to play at the level we are at.

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On 15/12/2019 at 12:21, jaylcfc94 said:

He’s just not very good...a championship player. I posted this before and got slated but the opinion has changed now. 

 

I havent came to that conclusion yet, remember when kane was been sent out on loan struggling even in the championship.

 

There is some quality with barnes, but I am 50/50 on if he can make it in the EPL, and I do think he needs to either have another loan to practice his shooting or be told to stop shooting at every chance.  However Rodgers is a manager who wants the goals spread around so I think barnes will be allowed more time to try and get on top of it.

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On 15/12/2019 at 12:32, StanSP said:

Some of the comments in here lol

 

You don't just bin off your youngsters because they go through a spell of underwhelming conceded - the other thing being that the whole team under-performed yesterday aside from Ndidi.

 

Whats funny is we binned of our older players on here, there is age discrimination on foxestalk. ;)

 

Quality players like Ulloa been considered a waste of space in squad was just embarrassing.

 

Also to point out Barnes issue with shooting is a lot more than one game, I am trying to decide whether you deliberately made it out to be one game only or are just assuming people are reacting to one game (wrongly).

Edited by Chrysalis

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On 15/12/2019 at 13:00, Grebfromgrebland said:

People forget that we're a nursery club where players can improve and make mistakes and earn a big move away. 

 

That's pretty much our plan. If Barnes is going to improve he needs time.

Yes and no, I would say that changes when you competing for top 4.  I would agree with you whilst we were in transition. (with Puel)

 

Now we struggling to score, I think Barnes cant be wasting chances.

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Just now, Chrysalis said:

Yes and no, I would say that changes when you competing for top 4.  I would agree with you whilst we were in transition. (with Puel)

 

Now we struggling to score, I think Barnes cant be wasting chances.

One poor match and we're 'struggling to score'? 

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On 15/12/2019 at 13:19, Fox92 said:

Young players need time. He's not gonna be the complete package. He did well at WBA, Championship, and has been in our side for less than a year. If we actually had quality out wide then perhaps we could loan him out to another PL side. Give young players time instead of slating them constantly.

I read the need time a lot, but no one who says this never says how much time.

 

So the question is how much time?

 

It is interesting you consider a year not very long.

 

Also another question, does a players development come ahead the needs of the team?

 

I suspect the second question wont get answered as I have asked it 3 times on FT already with no answer.

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15 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said:

One poor match and we're 'struggling to score'? 

You think we have only had one poor match and only struggled to score in one game?

 

Which cave have you been in for the past month?

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10 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I read the need time a lot, but no one who says this never says how much time.

 

So the question is how much time?

 

It is interesting you consider a year not very long.

 

Also another question, does a players development come ahead the needs of the team?

 

I suspect the second question wont get answered as I have asked it 3 times on FT already with no answer.

It took Vardy over 18 months before genuinely firing.

it took Riyad longer.

it took kante 4-5 games.

so AN answer to your question is a question.

How long is a piece of string?

Barnes is doing absolutely fine for his first Season as a first teamer 

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Just now, Shmokeee said:

It took Vardy over 18 months before genuinely firing.

it took Riyad longer.

it took kante 4-5 games.

so AN answer to your question is a question.

How long is a piece of string?

Barnes is doing absolutely fine for his first Season as a first teamer 

 

Mahrez impressed me the first game I seen him.

 

Vardy took a while but different circumstances.  You comparing been in the championship vs our current needs.

 

Kante 4-5 games, that is reasonable, Kante was never expected to score goals though.

 

So from your answer do I take it as you expect a player to be in the first team for at least 18 months before been considered to be dropped or to change their method of play?

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My opinion of Barnes is that he will end up being good enough but hes not currently good enough for the level that we are challenging at. His decision making and final product just isn't good enough at the moment. The amount of times he just runs in a straight line until he is tackled is incredibly frustrating. He seems to lack the ability of shifting the ball at the last moment to win a foul if he is running into a blind alley. Something Mahrez and more recently Maddison seem to be very good at.

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13 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

 

Mahrez impressed me the first game I seen him.

 

Vardy took a while but different circumstances.  You comparing been in the championship vs our current needs.

 

Kante 4-5 games, that is reasonable, Kante was never expected to score goals though.

 

So from your answer do I take it as you expect a player to be in the first team for at least 18 months before been considered to be dropped or to change their method of play?

Mahrez may well of impressed you first time you saw him but go back and look at his form and figures from his first 16 games with us. And as you correctly point out, that was in the championship( a far lower standard and a way, way easier league to make your mark as a player)

Then go look at Harvey’s first 16 in the championship.

Vardy was wrote off by a lot of people playing at a lower standard. But with time, guidance and confidence building, we have the current prem top scorer.

 

2 seasons ago, how many people saying chillwell wasn’t good enough?

 

Simple fact is there is no magical formula to make a player achieve his potential, it comes with dedication and patience, both in abundance.

 

I genuinely believe Barnes can go on to be our most successful academy graduate. Ever.

 

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14 minutes ago, TazzerFox said:

My opinion of Barnes is that he will end up being good enough but hes not currently good enough for the level that we are challenging at. His decision making and final product just isn't good enough at the moment. The amount of times he just runs in a straight line until he is tackled is incredibly frustrating. He seems to lack the ability of shifting the ball at the last moment to win a foul if he is running into a blind alley. Something Mahrez and more recently Maddison seem to be very good at.

If he scores a couple of goals in the next few matches you will be worrying that he's going to Man. Utd. Its not Barnes you should be questioning it's Perez. He's the proven goal scorer who is certainly underperforming.

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Another way of looking at things...

 

Ronaldo first season at United.

29 games 4 goals.

second season.

33 games 5 goals.

Next TWO seasons 33 games.

9 goals in each.

the season after that,

34 games 17 goals...

Then...

34 games.

31 goals....

 

Drogba took 3 seasons before he got twenty. 10 12 12 and only in 34 games did he hit 20.

He was 26 when he joined Chelsea..

 

Point is, players NEED time. Even the best.

 

 

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