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3 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Take Wilf Zaha as an example of a player in a similar position who most pundits and fans would have as better than a middling PL player. 
Never had more than 15 goal involvements in a season. Only once hit 10 goals in a season.

Harvey in his first full season in the Premier League has 4 goals and 6 assists, this in a team that isn’t built around him and he has been in and out of all season. Would anyone be surprised to see him get another 2 goals and 3 assists in the last 13 games? and match Zaha’s best ever season. 
I know I wouldn’t, with a bit more confidence in front of goal, and that will come. I could easily see him getting 10 goals and 10 assists in a season. 

tbf comparing him to zaha is literally comparing him to a middling premier league player. 

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50 minutes ago, Aus Fox said:

Take Wilf Zaha as an example of a player in a similar position who most pundits and fans would have as better than a middling PL player. 
Never had more than 15 goal involvements in a season. Only once hit 10 goals in a season.

Harvey in his first full season in the Premier League has 4 goals and 6 assists, this in a team that isn’t built around him and he has been in and out of all season. Would anyone be surprised to see him get another 2 goals and 3 assists in the last 13 games? and match Zaha’s best ever season. 
I know I wouldn’t, with a bit more confidence in front of goal, and that will come. I could easily see him getting 10 goals and 10 assists in a season. 

I take your points (although it's gonna take more than a bit of confidence for him to get 10 goals given what I've seen!) I suspect though that if Zaha played for us this season he'd quite easily blitz his previous personal best whilst if Barnes was playing for a turgid Palace both he and palace would be worse off. All hypothetical but I suspect a fair assumption. 

The real key to the (probably by now too many) posts I've made this morning is his rancid finishing and I genuinely don't believe hel improve a great deal at this given how many chances he consistently misses. I feel this combined with seemingly confidence based form will prevent him from being the sort of player who regularly plays in Europe be it for us or someone else although I fully expect him to spend most of his career as a prem player again either with us or someone else. I know this is a little counter to the internet way of something/someone being either utterly brilliant or utterly shite but there you go. I'll leave it at that.

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2 minutes ago, Gubbins said:

I take your points (although it's gonna take more than a bit of confidence for him to get 10 goals given what I've seen!) I suspect though that if Zaha played for us this season he'd quite easily blitz his previous personal best whilst if Barnes was playing for a turgid Palace both he and palace would be worse off. All hypothetical but I suspect a fair assumption. 

The real key to the (probably by now too many) posts I've made this morning is his rancid finishing and I genuinely don't believe hel improve a great deal at this given how many chances he consistently misses. I feel this combined with seemingly confidence based form will prevent him from being the sort of player who regularly plays in Europe be it for us or someone else although I fully expect him to spend most of his career as a prem player again either with us or someone else. I know this is a little counter to the internet way of something/someone being either utterly brilliant or utterly shite but there you go. I'll leave it at that.

Perez scored 13 goals in a very defensive Newcastle side last season and in one of the most potent attacking teams in the division this season he has scored 7, so likely to end up with less. Zaha is nowhere near as good as people think he is, certainly not worth £60-80m and Barnes will score and assist more than him with just a modicum of improvement.

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2 hours ago, sdb said:

People's idea of a middling PL player is baffling! Bear in mind there's 500+ of them at any one time.

 

Neither Zaha nor Barnes are in the middle of that!

zaha is ****ing rubbish mate. scores like 3 goals a year whilst battling relegation for continuously one of the worst attacking sides in the league. middling was kind tbh. 

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He's got a lot to learn but I'm so confident he's going to be a great player for us. Those saying he doesn't attack the byline, he tried a few times yesterday and got took out by the defender.

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28 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

zaha is ****ing rubbish mate. scores like 3 goals a year whilst battling relegation for continuously one of the worst attacking sides in the league. middling was kind tbh. 

You're confusing average with overrated. If he played for a side that wasn't full of mediocre, defensive players and god awful attackers his stats would be far better.

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4 hours ago, Gubbins said:

😄 Christ where to begin with this. Again the idea that by middling PL player I mean crap. The whole league is made up of middling players for God's sake. Competent but not outstanding. That's not a bad thing. Bit arrogant to assume otherwise... Much like your dismissal of Jeff flippin Schlupp who after Heskey has been one of the very few players to have a prem career that we've produced. 

I don't see how me thinking that Barnes won't make it as a truly top level player which I'm happy to be wrong about by the way makes me think we're a juggernaut??? Dearie me are you a relative of his?

You could begin by trying to actually understand what I said.  I never said that your assessment that he will not amount to more than a middling PL player means he is crap, but it is you that is saying that level of player is not good enough for us as if we are some kind of PL superpower, hence the juggernaut reference.  The very best will not come to us.

 

I really don't think that you are a good judge of potential and I definitely don't think that you can assess an academy player's ceiling after his first year at this level.  He is already at least a 'middling PL' player imo and there is surely more to come given his age.  I think he will become a special player and I will be happy for you to be proven wrong too.  Do you not understand that youth needs to develop?  He won't reach his peak for another 2 or 3 years at least.

 

As for Schlupp, Barnes is already streets ahead of him.  In fact we have three academy graduates that are already better than he is.

 

You are living up nicely to your username.

 

 

Edited by murphy
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1 minute ago, The Horse's Mouth said:

Think the problem with Barnes is we probably rely on him too early,mans clearly very talented but has been thrown into the deep end. Do wonder if we werent 3rd the vitriol would be abit lesser 

Barnes' goals and assists stats are now better than Daniel James at man u... And he is supposed to be unbelievable!

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43 minutes ago, sdb said:

You're confusing average with overrated. If he played for a side that wasn't full of mediocre, defensive players and god awful attackers his stats would be far better.

That's not necessarily true, as I've said with Perez. Scores 13 last season in a hugely defensive Newcastle team, this season in an extremely attacking team he is unlikely to get more than that. Zaha suits Palace as the whole team is built around him and him only from an attacking sense.

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2 hours ago, Finnegan said:

Zaha has like six years of development on Barnes, of course Barnes has some learning to do. 

 

I'd much rather have Barnes in my team though, he works hard for the team, his first thought isn't just his own glory, he takes people on directly at pace and heads towards dangerous areas instead of just attempting to dribble round people for ego. 

 

It's his first proper Premier League season and he's got four goals and six assists in 23 games. 

 

That's really not bad. 

Only 17 starts as well

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I’m a fan of Barnes, We all know he should of scored more than he has given the chances he has had, he will improve in this area no doubt.

 

just a question to the guys doubting his ability/level or worth to the team, would you prefer Barnes to keep getting into the positions to score more or effectively stay out wide and not try and contribute with goals?

 

Barnes has realistically played one season in the premier and has scored 5 goals in 42 premier appearances.

 

The legend that is Jamie Vardy only scored 5 goals in 34 appearances in his first premier season.

 

I know they play in different positions but give the lad time to develop that side of his game.

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2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

That's not necessarily true, as I've said with Perez. Scores 13 last season in a hugely defensive Newcastle team, this season in an extremely attacking team he is unlikely to get more than that. Zaha suits Palace as the whole team is built around him and him only from an attacking sense.

But it does mean Zaha usually has two or three players on him as Palace don't offer much of a threat otherwise. 

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Guest An Sionnach
1 hour ago, thegaffa said:

would you prefer Barnes to keep getting into the positions to score more or effectively stay out wide and not try and contribute with goals?

I keep highlighting that Barnes is not by nature a wide player . He will always be more effective inside and the same goes more obviously for Perez . Our only true wide player among the squad is Albrighton. 

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25 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

I keep highlighting that Barnes is not by nature a wide player . He will always be more effective inside and the same goes more obviously for Perez . Our only true wide player among the squad is Albrighton. 

Says everything because Albrighton is not good enough

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1 minute ago, Meat and 2 veg said:

Says everything because Albrighton is not good enough

Our way of playing has changed so much . When we won the premiership we used Marc and Mahrez as wide players . That worked very well then obviously but our main strength now is down the middle and Albrighton just doesn't fit in .

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1 hour ago, Father Ted said:

Why are people slagging Barnes off? Arguably been our best player since the turn of the year and had it not been for a costly miss yesterday, we would all be raving about his performance. It seems as though he has a new found confidence and fearlessness that we were all desperately hoping that he would find. There were occasions where 2 or 3 months ago he would have just turned back and passed it to Chilwell but yesterday his first thought every time was to get the ball and drive at the full back. 

 

He will become a pivotal player for us, mark my words.

Absolutely this. Let's get behind him, why would we not??

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