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Nickbluefox

Dunk??!!

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1 minute ago, henrik_62 said:

That's the thing a lot seem to be missing in this thread, the club have replaced Maguire, in fact they have already replaced him with two players, both Soyuncu and Benkovic were signed on that premise last summer so in that sense you are ahead of the game and don't need to go scurrying out to the market to panic buy and pay over the odds for someone like Dunk.

But we've not replaced him to the standard I think we'd expect. I am happy to be proven wrong, but both Puel and Rodgers have looked at Soyuncu and continued to play a 35 year old Wes Morgan over him, despite it being clear Morgan and Maguire are dreadful together.

 

Benkovic is clearly injury prone, and as I said a few pages back we would be relying on a player who has never played outside of Croatia and Scotland, and while both Celtic and Zagreb are good European sides, their opposition is pretty dreadful.

 

It's a massive gamble, for me, and in a summer in which we've shown we aren't short of money already, it seems bizarre we'd 'make do' with two players we aren't yet sure about at CB.

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It's almost as if Rob Dorsett has been trawling this thread and giving the majority what they want to hear! lol

 

Rob??? You there mate? :ermm:

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I'm really torn about this whole thing. On the one hand, I really don't want us blowing £45m on a nearly-30, decent CB, but then I don't want us to rely on a young, unproven player or an over-the-hill Wes when we can afford not to. There are also concerns about Evans and Benko being prone to injury.

 

I'm just going to trust the club's judgement. I'm sure Rodgers is best placed to know whether we need another player in or not. Whether we can get decent value from somewhere remains to be seen.

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2 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

It's almost as if Rob Dorsett has been trawling this thread and giving the majority what they want to hear! lol

 

Rob??? You there mate? :ermm:

He's just got around to reading Percy's article from last night.

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4 minutes ago, Raw Dykes said:

I'm really torn about this whole thing. On the one hand, I really don't want us blowing £45m on a nearly-30, decent CB, but then I don't want us to rely on a young, unproven player or an over-the-hill Wes when we can afford not to. There are also concerns about Evans and Benko being prone to injury.

 

I'm just going to trust the club's judgement. I'm sure Rodgers is best placed to know whether we need another player in or not. Whether we can get decent value from somewhere remains to be seen.

Like I said this Benkovic being prone to injury is becoming a bit of an urban myth.  He played circa 30 games for us last season, missed a chunk of the season after Christmas as we gambled playing him at Ibrox when he was injured.  He was then available the last 6-7 games of the season, most of which were dead rubbers so we didn't risk him, probably not wanting to send him back to Leciester injured.  Adding those in he'd have played close to 40 games for us last season, that's not injury prone by any means.  In addition to this you guys play far less games than us so there'll be more scope for rest for him between games which will make a huge difference.

Edited by henrik_62
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12 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

But we've not replaced him to the standard I think we'd expect. I am happy to be proven wrong, but both Puel and Rodgers have looked at Soyuncu and continued to play a 35 year old Wes Morgan over him, despite it being clear Morgan and Maguire are dreadful together.

Are you trying to say Morgan is poor because he and Maguire look poor together?

I think that's more due to the lack of Evans.

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1 minute ago, henrik_62 said:

Like I said this Benkovic being prone to injury is becoming a bit of an urban legend.  He played circa 30 games for us last season, missed a chunk of the season after Christmas as we gambled playing him at Ibrox when he was injured.  He was then available the last 6-7 games of the season, most of which were dead rubbers so we didn't risk him, probably not wanting to send him back to Leciester injured.  Adding those in he'd have played close to 40 games for us last season, that's not injury prone by any means.  In addition to this you guys play far less games than us so there'll be more scope for rest for him between games which will make a huge difference.

Thanks. That's a relief. Good to know.

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16 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

Like I said this Benkovic being prone to injury is becoming a bit of an urban legend.  He played circa 30 games for us last season, missed a chunk of the season after Christmas as we gambled playing him at Ibrox when he was injured.  He was then available the last 6-7 games of the season, most of which were dead rubbers so we didn't risk him, probably not wanting to send him back to Leciester injured.  Adding those in he'd have played close to 40 games for us last season, that's not injury prone by any means.  In addition to this you guys play far less games than us so there'll be more scope for rest for him between games which will make a huge difference.

I think if it was different injuries he'd just be unlucky, but it sounds like it's the same ankle that keeps going. The ankle went again after playing one U21 game this summer despite having a decent amount of rest after leaving Celtic. So he's come back to us injured anyway...

 

He was injured too at the time of us signing him last summer. Possibly the same ankle. Picked it up at his previous club.

 

Edited by brucey

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2 hours ago, Yes N'Didi said:

Surprised me but Dunk is ahead of Maguire in nearly every area... Played 5 games more mind.

Dunk.png

lol nice one.

 

But according to many posters on here Dunk plays for a shit team and isn't good enough for us.

 

Dunk and Duffy proved enough last season how good they can be, towards the end of the season especially they were getting praise. I looked at Brighton's player award results, who came 1st and 2nd...

 

Oh yeah, Dunk & Duffy.

 

If Rob Dorsett's tweet is anything to go by though then the next few weeks will be massive, I hope to see Benkovic and Soyuncu get plenty of minutes in Pre Season starting tonight against Scunny.

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2 minutes ago, brucey said:

Are you trying to say Morgan is poor because he and Maguire look poor together?

I think that's more due to the lack of Evans.

I don't think they were saying Morgan is poor - just that the pairing of Morgan and Maguire is a bad one.

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The amount of positive reactions to the news that we will not get Dunk is very high.

Wish we had started a "Should we sign Dunk when Harry goes" poll.

It would have been a rare and insightful opportunity to see the evolution of the (sub) human species called footy fans during the transfer window.

fickle twats, every last one of us

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8 minutes ago, brucey said:

Are you trying to say Morgan is poor because he and Maguire look poor together?

I think that's more due to the lack of Evans.

My point was that we know Morgan and Maguire doesn't work, but even with that knowledge, Puel insisted on it instead of Soyuncu (or indeed Evans) for much of the first half of the season.

 

Evans does have the knack of making every partner he plays with look better.

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58 minutes ago, nnfox said:

Rob Dorsett saying on SSN that we aren't in the market for a central defender. Tarkowski and Dunk perceived poor value for money.  There will be no Maguire replacement if he does leave.

There is a God. Thank you.

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3 minutes ago, jeffschlupp said:

My point was that we know Morgan and Maguire doesn't work, but even with that knowledge, Puel insisted on it instead of Soyuncu (or indeed Evans) for much of the first half of the season.

 

Evans does have the knack of making every partner he plays with look better.

It was reported in various places Soyuncu took ages to settle due to the language barrier, and I recall Morgan scored an important goal or two so we couldn't reasonably drop him the next game. Maguire probably deserved to be dropped as much as Morgan did, when they played together. It took us a while to realise how much better we played with Evans and started him regularly as he was possibly bought as a 3rd choice initially.

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4 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

I've been wanting to push Morgan out the door for 2 seasons now! He continues to prove me and some others wrong. He was surprisingly good last season and deserved to be starting a number of those games. BR came in and has also given him an extended 1 year, so obviously sees his value too. So I don't see the issue of Wes starting ahead of Soyuncu last season. It was also reported Soyuncu took extra time to settle, which is understandable. 

 

In terms of Benkovic and Soyuncu, we have two very highly rated players, one with 24 International caps for Turkey and 2 seasons in the Bundesliga where he got rave reviews. Benkovic has had his injuries but when played, looked a step above in Scotland, and notably BR himself referred to him as Premiership quality. If his injuries were a big concern, then I do think that would be reported to BR and he would be seen as too risky to count on. That doesn't seem to be the case at the moment.

 

Puel signed them both, and transfers was an area he and Macia generally did very well in. I also think they will have an excellent partner for either of them in Jonny Evans. Huge experience at this level and our standout CB last season. Wes will also be invaluable for his experience and knowledge of the league and club.

 

I really don't see the issue with putting faith in two of our highly rated younger players. It continues what we have been doing so well recently and we have reaped rewards from that strategy and now have players like Chilwell, Maddison, Barnes, Choudary etc all performing and showing signs of becoming top players with us.

 

This breaking the top 6 thing shouldn't make us panic or change strategies. We've put ourselves in this position exactly because of backing our exciting younger players. Long may it continue IMO! 

This is bit in bold is key.  I could perhaps see the sense in overspending for someone like Dunk if there was no experienced head already there but Evans is probably one of if not the best centre back outside the top 4 and has bundles of EPL experience so he's the ideal partner to help bring on Soyuncu and/or Benkovic.

Edited by henrik_62
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1 hour ago, nnfox said:

Rob Dorsett saying on SSN that we aren't in the market for a central defender. Tarkowski and Dunk perceived poor value for money.  There will be no Maguire replacement if he does leave.

I really hope this is true. Not because we aren't signing a CB, but the part about Tarkowski and Dunk being perceived as poor value for money. It's so important we get the balance right in terms of spending big, but also getting value too. Tielemans is a perfect example of that. £40million smashes our transfer fee record, but it's good value! 

 

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Could this be all negotiation tactics from the club? if we make out we need to spend big to get a replacement for Maguire (when we already have two very capable centrebacks waiting for their chance) then that somewhat puts us in a stronger position in terms of demanding more money.

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2 minutes ago, henrik_62 said:

This is bit in bold is key.  I could perhaps see the sense in overspending for someone like Dunk if there was no experienced head already there but Evans is probably one of if not the best centre back outside the top 4 and has bundles of EPL experience so he's the ideal partner to help bring on Soyuncu and/or Benkovic.

Ideal would be for Evans to play most if not all the Premier League games, alongside Soyuncu or Benkovic, and then trying Soyuncu and Benkovic pairing in some cup games to start building that relationship between them both. They have the potential to be our starting CB pairing in 2-3 seasons. 

 

I'm also very curious to see if BR does indeed try Amartey as a CB and we see him in some cup games there. Wouldn't surprise me that much if he did well also. 

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3 minutes ago, lcfc sheff said:

Could this be all negotiation tactics from the club? if we make out we need to spend big to get a replacement for Maguire (when we already have two very capable centrebacks waiting for their chance) then that somewhat puts us in a stronger position in terms of demanding more money.

Maybe but I genuinely think there is truth in this report. BR is known for backing youth players.

 

Curious to see how Soyuncu and Benkovic do in the pre-season games. 

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5 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

Maybe but I genuinely think there is truth in this report. BR is known for backing youth players.

 

Curious to see how Soyuncu and Benkovic do in the pre-season games. 

Benko still injured? 

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1 hour ago, jeffschlupp said:

I do hope the club have pushed that message out to strengthen its negotiating position rather than them seriously not considering replacing Maguire.

 

A massive risk if they are serious about top 6 this year - I fear that if it doesn't work out, not only are we going to be charged an even bigger premium for a CB in January/next summer, but we're also going to have blown our best chance at breaking the top 6 we might ever get.

Other than the year we broke the top 6 and won the league*

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1 hour ago, Babylon said:

You're in the club, welcome. 

Ha ha.  will send my agent round to negotiate the signing on fee.

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46 minutes ago, kingfox said:

lol nice one.

 

But according to many posters on here Dunk plays for a shit team and isn't good enough for us.

 

Dunk and Duffy proved enough last season how good they can be, towards the end of the season especially they were getting praise. I looked at Brighton's player award results, who came 1st and 2nd...

 

Oh yeah, Dunk & Duffy.

 

If Rob Dorsett's tweet is anything to go by though then the next few weeks will be massive, I hope to see Benkovic and Soyuncu get plenty of minutes in Pre Season starting tonight against Scunny.

Its not that he isn't good enough its that the price tag is too high for what we would be getting. If it were half the price then by all means snap him up.

 

We are slightly hypocritical as we are demanding a world record fee for Maguire but that's the market we are in.

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