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2019/20 Under 23's, U19's, Development ... thread

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6 hours ago, FIF said:

How many of you are actually in the know here regarding the U23 setup. I read such negative comments and would like to know if it's based on something I can believe in or just the usual FT shit.

My guess is the latter.

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Alternate view, 

 

We’ve been told previously we’d rue losing Mattock, Sheehan, Dodds, Petrescu, Taft etc

 

I suppose it all depends on where we aspire to be. 

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17 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

But its a completely different era of football now. You'd assume if any of our 18/19 yr olds were honestly good enough, they'd be in and around the squad. 

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

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3 minutes ago, An Sionnach said:

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

Players play well into their 30's, we can afford to see how good a player is when they are 23, even a 5 year contract then would only last to 28. 

 

Our system hasn't done badly and really can't be compared to Chelsea, Liverpool or Manchester for a couple of decades yet.

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19 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

But its a completely different era of football now. You'd assume if any of our 18/19 yr olds were honestly good enough, they'd be in and around the squad. 

...didn't we have Ashley Chambers who had his first team debut before he was 16.

  Mattock was in before he was 17, I am sure I was at the game when he debuted.

  If your good enough your old enough, although I think the Chamber's one was to give him the record as the youngest debutant.

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57 minutes ago, Sly said:

Alternate view, 

 

We’ve been told previously we’d rue losing Mattock, Sheehan, Dodds, Petrescu, Taft etc

 

I suppose it all depends on where we aspire to be. 

I remember reading on here that Nwunku was the most talented player the clubs ever had. Sometimes the club and the coaches who see them everyday, do know best.

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6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

We think 18 is far too young but players like Cross , Shilton and Lineker were in the team at that age and yet players like  KDH and Hirst are in their twenties!

Because they had the quality that KDH and Hirst can only dream off. 

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3 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

If they are not good enough by now they should not be at the club. Once again teams like Liverpool and Chelsea are prepared to take a chance , we are not.

How do you work that out, please explain. Liverpool have TAA and Gomez playing regular basis, we have Barnes and Chilwell, so how are they prepare to take a chance.

 

Chelsea had was force and you can see what they turn think of some of their youngsters, we their level of transfer activity!

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8 hours ago, coolhandfox said:

Because they had the quality that KDH and Hirst can only dream off. 

There you go, you seem to be fearful of giving these players a chance, only one KDH had any time in the cup runs. If we were playing well at the moment I could understand it but we are not and these younger players remain untried. We will not and I mean not solve all our problems with the transfer markets we need to bring our younger players through. I refer you to the teams selected by the forum for tonights match and not one of them include Barnes or Choudhury . Have you given up on them already?

Edited by An Sionnach

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6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

There you go, you seem to be fearful of giving these players a chance, only one KDH had any time in the cup runs. If we were playing well at the moment I could understand it but we are not and these younger players remain untried. We will not and I mean not solve all our problems with the transfer markets we need to bring our younger players through.

I personally think, throwing them in a struggling side could have a very negative impact on their development and confidence. 

 

6 hours ago, An Sionnach said:

I refer you to the teams selected by the forum for tonights match and not one of them include Barnes or Choudhury . Have you given up on them already?

I've not given up on anyone as I've not posted a team, and personally think Barnes gets in our strongest 11, whilst Choudhury still has a lot to learn. 

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It isn't just us, seems to be happening at a lot of the bigger clubs lately as well, talented young players walking away from Man Utd, Man City, PSG etc.

 

 

Edited by moore_94

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On 29/06/2020 at 22:28, themightyfin said:

Gyamfi is one we are going ro regret. Has a great chance of making it at the very top. 

I only saw him in HK7s but he looked good and had a great work ethic and attitude, judging from a video we posted. Why did he go?

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On 30/06/2020 at 14:20, Stadt said:

Rudkin was formerly head of academy, got promoted obviously and now the current head of academy is the former head of LCFC community coaching. There’s rumour’s that Peake will be replaced internally too. There’s not an influx of new ideas and styles if vacancies are only filled from within. Idiakez wasn’t here long, Halajko, the geezer from Norwich soon left as well. 
 

I’ll keep labouring this point but you wouldn’t build a state of the art fighter jet and stick the Red Baron in it. Our facilities won’t be utilised properly if we carry on with our admin era coaching set up  

Idiakez left to join Pearson

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1 minute ago, UniFox21 said:

Players have started to realise they need game time to progress as pressure is too great for teams to start bedding them in and loans seem to be reduced. 

 

Sancho's success after being just an u23 at Man City has highlighted this more and given players the confidence to go and try to get games.

Definitely, pretty sure they are bringing in new rules to restrict the amount of players out on loan from clubs because of the likes of Chelsea and most Italian clubs

 

Likely to see a lot more players leaving and turning down contracts in the next few seasons

 

Wouldn't surprise me if when it is implemented we see a few of our better young talents be "sold" to Leuven, take advantage of the system like Watford/Udinese or Man City and all of their clubs etc.

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12 minutes ago, moore_94 said:

Definitely, pretty sure they are bringing in new rules to restrict the amount of players out on loan from clubs because of the likes of Chelsea and most Italian clubs

 

Likely to see a lot more players leaving and turning down contracts in the next few seasons

 

Wouldn't surprise me if when it is implemented we see a few of our better young talents be "sold" to Leuven, take advantage of the system like Watford/Udinese or Man City and all of their clubs etc.

I think you're right on loans, i remember a rule being spoken of to stop the likes of Chelsea loaning ~100 players at a time and hoarding them basically. 

 

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On 29/06/2020 at 21:27, Ric Flair said:

Has Petty gone now as well?

didnt realise Petty had gone and not sure of the background why but think this is quite telling if he has "walked away" as he was a good footballing coach who assumed he was being groomed to take over from Beaglehole.

Like Idiakez before him, I suspect he was not prepared to work indefinitely under Beaglehole.....which suggests "hoof-ball" Beaglehole may be staying!

 

Concerning that we keep losing progressive tactically astute coaches more in tune with the modern game at such a key stage in young players development yet Beaglehole remains in situ coaching a style of football that was suited to his own lower league playing days....

If we are to produce players playing at the standard our first team now play at we will be reliant on world class coaches at U23 level OR a world class recruitment team to sign young players age 18-20 who are already capable of breaking into the team before they join us.....not quite sure which of those 2 criteria Beaglehole is suited to as Beaglehole does seem to have a talent for turning Wine into water?!?

 

On the positive side, at least we will continue to be strong challengers for the PL2 U23 title under Beaglehole...!!

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4 minutes ago, Foxy-Lady said:

didnt realise Petty had gone and not sure of the background why but think this is quite telling if he has "walked away" as he was a good footballing coach who assumed he was being groomed to take over from Beaglehole.

Like Idiakez before him, I suspect he was not prepared to work indefinitely under Beaglehole.....which suggests "hoof-ball" Beaglehole may be staying!

 

Concerning that we keep losing progressive tactically astute coaches more in tune with the modern game at such a key stage in young players development yet Beaglehole remains in situ coaching a style of football that was suited to his own lower league playing days....

If we are to produce players playing at the standard our first team now play at we will be reliant on world class coaches at U23 level OR a world class recruitment team to sign young players age 18-20 who are already capable of breaking into the team before they join us.....not quite sure which of those 2 criteria Beaglehole is suited to as Beaglehole does seem to have a talent for turning Wine into water?!?

 

On the positive side, at least we will continue to be strong challengers for the PL2 U23 title under Beaglehole...!!

I'm not sure if he has left yet? It's not been confirmed, but alarming if so and as you say it's almost pointless being an academy coach at Leicester as you're hitting your head against a brick Beaglehole.

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Just seen the latest list of released players.

Very surprised to see Johannsen released as he was a quality keeper who left Villa to join Leicester partly (strong relationship with Ben Petty at Villa and joined just after Petty joined us)

Wondering if his departure may be connected once again to Petty moving on 'elsewhere'..?

 

However, not surprised at all to see Connor Tee released despite the fact he was Academy Player of the year 2 years ago.  I said at the time 2 years ago he would not feature under Beaglehole in the U23s due to his size....and he NEVER did! 

Watched a documentary on Barcelona last night where they used to have a MINIMUM height restriction for players to join their Academy.....until Johann Cryuff took over and told them to scrap it....and then they produced Messi, Iniesta and Xavi.  I guess that should have ended the debate on minimum height for ever....but maybe not??

 

Also worth noting that the previous Academy Player of the year (Alex Pascanu) also left due to lack of opportunity.   What happens to such promising players in such a short period of time as soon as they reach our U23s...?!? 

Im guessing anyone in our current U18s must be dreading being awarded the Academy Player of the year as seems to be a bit of a poisoned chalice...!

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15 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

I think you're right on loans, i remember a rule being spoken of to stop the likes of Chelsea loaning ~100 players at a time and hoarding them basically. 

 

This is what people fail to understand when they claim that Chelsea do so well with their youth. They buy hundreds of young players, send them out or not and a very low percentage ever get to play for the Chelsea team. There are only so many at the moment because of their transfer ban last season.

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2 minutes ago, FIF said:

This is what people fail to understand when they claim that Chelsea do so well with their youth. They buy hundreds of young players, send them out or not and a very low percentage ever get to play for the Chelsea team. There are only so many at the moment because of their transfer ban last season.

That’s unfair on Lampard who has shown that he is genuinely invested in playing young players.

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Beaglehole is also without a playing career, he did his coaching badges very young but how can he ,from personal experience, tell these lads what is necessary mentally to prepare them for top class football.

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4 minutes ago, Stadt said:

That’s unfair on Lampard who has shown that he is genuinely invested in playing young players.

Because he couldn't buy in when he arrived.

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4 minutes ago, FIF said:

Because he couldn't buy in when he arrived.

But he’s continued throughout the season, it’s not like he just played some youth teamers because they didn’t have any depth. They already have a decent midfield and Gilmore has broken through because Lampard is showing faith. 8 unestablished youth teamers have played in the PL this season, they weren’t going to buy 8 players, maybe 3 or 4 if they could. The transfer ban forced their hand but Lampard is clearly committed to blooding young players beyond ‘they play kid players because ban!!!’

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