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Matty James

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1 hour ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm not, I said Drinkwater struggled in 14/15 in which James faired a little better than him. However, I hugely disagree with James being anywhere near the level Drinkwater was in 2013/14. Drinkwater's goals, assists and running of our midfield the season we won it put him in the top 3 players in the league. So much so he was voted in the top 3 with Danny Ings and Ross McCormack. He was also in the team of the season with Schmeichel and Morgan. All seems quite surprising for a player who has never been as good as Matty James at Leicester.

 

 

That's like saying you think Lloyd Dyer is a better player than Mahrez because Dyer tore the Championship up.

Regardless, a team of the season selection isn't enough for me to believe Drinkwater was better anyway. 

Sure, he scored more. At the time I believe James contributed more and that's my opinion today, too.

Edited by Nod.E
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1 hour ago, Koke said:

 

Disagree.

 

Drinkwater doesnt even make top 5 most important players that season. Vardy, Kante, Mahrez, Schmeichel, Okazaki & Huth all more important. Drinkwster was just a cog in that side, carried by Kante. As shown by the state he's currently in, he was never all that. He wouldnt make our team now whereas all the above mentioned would walk into our team and stay there bar Huth/Shinji due to old age. 

 

James and Drinkwater were about the same level in terms of talent. One got lucky and the other got unlucky.

 

Just completely wrong I'm afraid and no idea what Okazaki and Huth have to do with it. James has nothing like the skill set required to have made that system effective in the middle alongside Kante. Drinkwater's passing range was invaluable to it. No way James could play the first time balls over the top for Vardy as at Sunderland away or Stoke at home.

 

James did little more than break up play and put his foot in from time to time, which was fine with a passer like Cambiasso (or indeed Drinkwater in the previous season) next to him, and Mahrez in front of him, but him and Kante in the middle? What would be the point in that unless we were playing for 0-0?

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4 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

That's like saying you think Lloyd Dyer is a better player than Mahrez because Dyer tore the Championship up.

Regardless, a team of the season selection isn't enough for me to believe Drinkwater was better anyway. 

Sure, he scored more. At the time I believe James contributed more and that's my opinion today, too.

IMO James was more important to the team, the games he missed with injury we missed him badly, I said at the time how important a player he was for the unit. Drinkwater always stood out more are his passing etc is a bit more “Hollywood”, but you look at the all round stats and it shows James more all round influence.

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1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

That's like saying you think Lloyd Dyer is a better player than Mahrez because Dyer tore the Championship up.

Regardless, a team of the season selection isn't enough for me to believe Drinkwater was better anyway. 

Sure, he scored more. At the time I believe James contributed more and that's my opinion today, too.

Ridiculous comparison. Mahrez obviously proved in the Premier League what a player he was.

It is a fact that James hasn’t. His one and only full season in the Premier League consisted of being average at best in and out of a team that was tailed off at the bottom of the league. 

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1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Just completely wrong I'm afraid and no idea what Okazaki and Huth have to do with it. James has nothing like the skill set required to have made that system effective in the middle alongside Kante. Drinkwater's passing range was invaluable to it. No way James could play the first time balls over the top for Vardy as at Sunderland away or Stoke at home.

 

James did little more than break up play and put his foot in from time to time, which was fine with a passer like Cambiasso (or indeed Drinkwater in the previous season) next to him, and Mahrez in front of him, but him and Kante in the middle? What would be the point in that unless we were playing for 0-0?

You are as wrong as he is to suggest James was nothing more than  player who broke up play.

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12 minutes ago, Nod.E said:

That's like saying you think Lloyd Dyer is a better player than Mahrez because Dyer tore the Championship up.

Regardless, a team of the season selection isn't enough for me to believe Drinkwater was better anyway. 

Sure, he scored more. At the time I believe James contributed more and that's my opinion today, too.

What are you going on about? My initial reply to you was because of your opening gambit of Matty James " always " being better than Drinkwater. I've provided a few bits of evidence, which you've dismissed to start with and now you are dismissing it because it was the Championship and not the PL. You are moving the goal posts, if you want me to move them as well I will. One is a PL winner and the other isn't. 

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Just now, Babylon said:

You are as wrong as he is to suggest James was nothing more than  player who broke up play.

 

Potentially a bit harsh but the rest is correct.

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1 minute ago, Viva said:

Ridiculous comparison. Mahrez obviously proved in the Premier League what a player he was.

It is a fact that James hasn’t. His one and only full season in the Premier League consisted of being average at best in and out of a team that was tailed off at the bottom of the league. 

I think you've missed my point. My only intention with the comparison was to highlight that to use Championship form is less relevant. Regardless, I still think James was more valuable than Drinkwater in the Championship anyway.

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Just now, Nod.E said:

I think you've missed my point. My only intention with the comparison was to highlight that to use Championship form is less relevant. Regardless, I still think James was more valuable than Drinkwater in the Championship anyway.

James has no decent Premier League form though. 

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2 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

What are you going on about? My initial reply to you was because of your opening gambit of Matty James " always " being better than Drinkwater. I've provided a few bits of evidence, which you've dismissed to start with and now you are dismissing it because it was the Championship and not the PL. You are moving the goal posts, if you want me to move them as well I will. One if a PL winner and the other isn't. 

Granted, there probably wasn't much in it in the Championship. 0.01 of a rating if you use the WhoScored ratings! I don't believe a team of the year, voted for by third parties, is as valuable as observed performances.

Drinkwater was a goalscoring part of the team that ran away with the Championship. It isn't surprising he was picked, and to somebody looking from the outside in, you'd pick Drinkwater over James for a team of the year without full appreciation of the valuable 'dirty work'.

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3 minutes ago, Viva said:

James has no decent Premier League form though. 

Apart from the fact he was better than Drinkwater in the only comparable year. Not just my opinion. He was selected more by Pearson and his ratings support my opinion that he was better. 

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1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Apart from the fact he was better than Drinkwater in the only comparable year. Not just my opinion. He was selected more by Pearson and his ratings support my opinion that he was better. 

Being selected 20 times in a season when we was poor for most of it is not great Premier League form! 

Edited by Viva

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1 minute ago, ealingfox said:

 

Potentially a bit harsh but the rest is correct.

It’s not even potentially wrong, it’s just wrong. I can’t even be arsed to go through all of this again because I’ve done it seemingly every single year. But the stats are all there in previous threads about how creative he actually was for us and how much of an influence he had going forward.

 

The only reasons he might never have had the sort of influence DD did that season is that he just never had the shooting ability (not that DD was great) and his body has never seemed to be able to sustain a full season. He had most of the rest....

 

... but it’s a pointless argument, it’s horrific the injuries he’s had and it’s horrible for players to sit on the sidelines year after year, getting so close to fitness and then breaking down.

 

 

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Just now, Viva said:

Being selected 20 times in a season when we was poor for most of it is not great Premier League form! 

Where have I said he was great in that season?

I said, and provided evidence that he was better than Drinkwater. 

Therefore he will no doubt feel confident that he could have filled his boots in 15/16 and continued to perform well for us beyond.

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1 minute ago, Babylon said:

It’s not even potentially wrong, it’s just wrong. I can’t even be arsed to go through all of this again because I’ve done it seemingly every single year. But the stats are all there in previous threads about how creative he actually was for us and how much of an influence he had going forward.

 

The only reasons he might never have had the sort of influence DD did that season is that he just never had the shooting ability (not that DD was great) and his body has never seemed to be able to sustain a full season. He had most of the rest....

 

... but it’s a pointless argument, it’s horrific the injuries he’s had and it’s horrible for players to sit on the sidelines year after year, getting so close to fitness and then breaking down.

 

 

 

Absolutely no way we win the league with a midfield two of Kante and James, which was my point. You know it's true.

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James was decent in the championship and decidedly average in the great escape season. 

 

Not sure how some people see that record as showing potential to be something special. 

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Just now, Nod.E said:

Where have I said he was great in that season?

I said, and provided evidence that he was better than Drinkwater. 

Therefore he will no doubt feel confident that he could have filled his boots in 15/16 and continued to perform well for us beyond.

Right, regardless of what Drinkwater did in the 14/15 season, the point is that James has never shown any good Premier League form. 

Its all very easy to assume that he would have turned into a great, but that is still based on nothing. In all likelihood, 13/14 in the Championship was his level and he has done very well for himself on the back of that. 

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Fact is we'll never know how good Matty James could have been in the premier League due to the injuries he has had. But he was up there with my favourite players at one point. 

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2 hours ago, Ric Flair said:

I'm not, I said Drinkwater struggled in 14/15 in which James faired a little better than him. However, I hugely disagree with James being anywhere near the level Drinkwater was in 2013/14. Drinkwater's goals, assists and running of our midfield the season we won it put him in the top 3 players in the league. So much so he was voted in the top 3 with Danny Ings and Ross McCormack. He was also in the team of the season with Schmeichel and Morgan. All seems quite surprising for a player who has never been as good as Matty James at Leicester.

 

 

At risk of pointing out the very obvious logical conclusion of your argument, that makes McCormack a vastly superior player to, among others, Jamie Vardy and Riyad Mahrez. 

 

But in your defence, the (totally subjective) stats (I mean, definitely not stats, more an amalgamation of unqualified opinions) never lie.

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1 hour ago, Viva said:

Right, regardless of what Drinkwater did in the 14/15 season, the point is that James has never shown any good Premier League form. 

Its all very easy to assume that he would have turned into a great, but that is still based on nothing. In all likelihood, 13/14 in the Championship was his level and he has done very well for himself on the back of that. 

But to the same point, what about how shocking Drinkwater was in 16/17?

Agree that there is a fair bit of assumption and guess work going on here but the point I was making is that James was every bit as good as, if not better than Drinkwater before his injury problems, and he'll rightly be devastated that he wasn't able to fulfil his career to the best of his ability due to injury. He could have been a mainstay.

People are very quick to forget and many of our fans seem to write him off as not good enough.

Take Andy King, for instance. He has done amazing things for our football club and I will always be thankful for his contributions and achievements.

Many fans, however, do recognise that King is not quite at the level required to be in a challenging team in the Prem and that's fair enough. It's annoying that people put James in the same 'just not good enough' bracket. He hasn't had the opportunity to realise the potential that was evident in the Great Escape season. King, for his legend status, was always somewhat out of his depth.

James could and should have been at the level of your Morgans and Albrightons, but he'll go down as simply 'not good enough' by our fanbase. Shame. 

 

Edited by Nod.E
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James was fantastic for us in our 13/14 championship title season, doing all the dirty work in the middle of the park.

 

Drinkwater was fantastic for us in 13/14 & of course 15/16, Kante did not ‘carry’ him. He was exceptional that season in his own right creating chances, starting attacks, winning tackles, you name it. He played like the perfect all round midfielder. 

 

Everything else is irrelevant for me, both players should be fondly remembered in years to come for their contribution to the club.

 

The end! 

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11 minutes ago, Oxfordfox83 said:

At risk of pointing out the very obvious logical conclusion of your argument, that makes McCormack a vastly superior player to, among others, Jamie Vardy and Riyad Mahrez. 

 

But in your defence, the (totally subjective) stats (I mean, definitely not stats, more an amalgamation of unqualified opinions) never lie.

That season I would suggest it to be a true reflection of their contributions. Mahrez didn't join until mid January and hit the ground running but still was in his infancy in terms of how devastating he'd become in English football and likewise Vardy. Vardy had a great season for us but wasn't the stand out player that Ings probably was that year. These accolades can be argued either way but the point i'm making is on a subject that is hugely subjective based on opinion it's very easy to try and find cast iron proof of a players contribution or achievements. It's certainly pertinent here where the opening statement was that Matty James has ALWAYS been better than Drinkwater for Leicester, I nearly fell off my chair.

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1 hour ago, Shane said:

Everything else is irrelevant for me, both players should be fondly remembered in years to come for their contribution to the club.

 

The end! 

This is all there is to say really.

 

How the hell we've had three pages of this just because someone posted what a waste it was that MJ couldn’t fulfill his potential I’ll never know. If you feel the need to say he was never all that anyway and all fading Leicester players are actually shite, go and join a Forest forum.

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