Stadium Expansion...?

[davieG]

5 hours ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Fences are present in some of the best stadiums in the world (the Allianz Arena has one at both ends behind the goals), they aren't dangerous becasue the crowd behind them in managed properly. Standing isn't inherently dangerous nor are fences. 

Of course but they are if too many people are allowing into a ringed enclosure. As I understand it they didn't even have gates in them or if they did the police wouldn't let them out, but again we know why because of why they were there in the first place.

 

Having said that i would hate to watch a game through a fence, in fact I wouldn't.

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Maybe naive of me here; but how bad did football hooliganism get that fences were required? 

I've always read and heard it wasn't great but never realised that was the reason the fencing were used.

Look up Luton v Millwall 1985. Hooliganism was rife then but that was the watermark when the government got tough and Thatcher became involved. 

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Look up Luton v Millwall 1985. Hooliganism was rife then but that was the watermark when the government got tough and Thatcher became involved. 

Jesus Christ that's just crazy 

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

Maybe naive of me here; but how bad did football hooliganism get that fences were required? 

I've always read and heard it wasn't great but never realised that was the reason the fencing were used.

It got to a shocking level many people stopped going. There were fights before, during and after games many of them organised by 'squads' like Leicester Baby Squad* 

 

I used to take my kids down during this time and it was frightening to say the least, i had to be very aware to avoid large groups of fans and take round about routes to the ground, often because the police stopped you going certain ways for instance you could cross the Nelson Mandela Reccy.

 

As people have said crowds ended up being treated like cattle and some of that still remains this day.

 

 

*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_Squad

[RonnieTodger]

8 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Look up Luton v Millwall 1985. Hooliganism was rife then but that was the watermark when the government got tough and Thatcher became involved. 

I remember hearing Danny Baker talk about it on his podcast with Lineker.

[FoxyJim1987]

10 hours ago, Nickfosse said:

I think one of the biggest problems is that many confuse reintroducing terracing with safe standing. 

I mentioned in another thread that I was in SK4 at Filbert Street when we played Burnley having been promoted. They let too many in and I could barely breathe let alone put my feet on the floor. I’ve never been so pleased for a game to end (I couldn’t see a thing either) and when the Hillsborough disaster happened I realise how close we came to a similar tragedy. 

In spite of this experience, I am a massive supporter of safe standing. It is completely different and would not result in similar tragedies at all. I believe it would have a positive impact on stadium atmosphere which is much needed in my opinion. 

I just don't get this myself. How can standing affect atmosphere. I've stood on away ends that have been deathly silent. People create standing areas now in seated grounds. You rarely hear of crushes or big incidents, so why ripseats out so a load of morons can jump around waving scarves. I for one am glad my now 12 year old has been able to see the match each week and not the back of someone standing in front of him (like away games)

[Aus Fox]

49 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

You'll be supporting the safe wanking area then?

Not so sure now, with the possibility of 1000s of UV lights going in all around the stadium - doesn’t appear such a safe space anymore.

[ozleicester]

Just now, Aus Fox said:

Not so sure now, with the possibility of 1000s of UV lights going in all around the stadium - doesn’t appear such a safe space anymore.

TBF... that will improve the quality of the recordings.

[davieG]

3 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

so why ripseats out

They wont be ripping out seats.

[Voll Blau]

12 hours ago, foxgas said:

I stand at Rugby Union,League and  non league football and enjoy a pint on open terraces and have never had an issue with it and rarely see anyone the worse for drink but on Sunday normal service resumed at the King Power, with people the worse for drink and anti social  behaviour in abundance.

It's sad that you've decided to link standing at Leicester with anti-social behaviour, when you know full well only a minority of those who stand behave like that (and some who sit do too!). See our away ends for example, most stand but you'd have to be extremely soft to think a majority of people in those ends are acting in an anti-social manner. All those who support safe standing want is a safe area where they can do so, which would benefit both standers and those who prefer to sit. They have everyone's interests at heart in campaigning for this.

 

In any case, I see more people in far worse states on the Saturdays of Test cricket than I ever have at any City game.

[UniFox21]

5 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

I just don't get this myself. How can standing affect atmosphere. I've stood on away ends that have been deathly silent. People create standing areas now in seated grounds. You rarely hear of crushes or big incidents, so why ripseats out so a load of morons can jump around waving scarves. I for one am glad my now 12 year old has been able to see the match each week and not the back of someone standing in front of him (like away games)

When stood up people are more inclined to sing and join in the atmosphere. Having a whole area stood should in theory provide an area full of people wanting to sing and shout. 

Changing seats to stands makes it safer for those wish to stand. 

 

If you don't like safe standing then don't use it when implemented, but just as you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

And in away games, ask to be nearer to the front, or it you're in a standing bit simply ask to swap with people to get a better view citing your son being unable to see. 

 

[volpeazzurro]

55 minutes ago, Vestan Pance said:

You're right going to a football match was very different in those days. Why do you think that was? People haven't changed but the way crowds are handled has. The main change is that supporters are now seen as people rather than herded animals.

I think you're very right, that's undoubtedly a huge part of it.  However, I also remember groups of roaming youths and adults in and around the prison and Welford Road area hunting in packs trying to get at opposition supporters going back to the train station. You can't blame the police for that sort of behaviour, that was a mentality thing from that era surely. And, whilst this might not be popular, probably the creation of all seater stadia and more family friendly atmosphere also diluted the macho pack mentality.

 

There were some away games where you were unsure of your safety on the way out of the grounds from the threat of opposition supporters. Again, that wasn't a police or ground officials fault, it was the scum who were doing it.

 

We've changed as a society in general  over the years in many ways. Racism and gender issues were a much larger problem then than now though education needs to continue. I do think though now that society has changed enough that there can be a place for standing areas though there is always the risk that the few could spoil it for the majority. 

[fleckneymike]

5 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

When stood up people are more inclined to sing and join in the atmosphere. Having a whole area stood should in theory provide an area full of people wanting to sing and shout. 

Changing seats to stands makes it safer for those wish to stand. 

 

If you don't like safe standing then don't use it when implemented, but just as you don't like it, doesn't mean it's wrong.

 

And in away games, ask to be nearer to the front, or it you're in a standing bit simply ask to swap with people to get a better view citing your son being unable to see. 

 

Are wheelchair users statistically less inclined to sing?

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

I just don't get this myself. How can standing affect atmosphere. I've stood on away ends that have been deathly silent. People create standing areas now in seated grounds. You rarely hear of crushes or big incidents, so why ripseats out so a load of morons can jump around waving scarves. I for one am glad my now 12 year old has been able to see the match each week and not the back of someone standing in front of him (like away games)

A safe standing area would satisfy all party, as those "morons"  would have their own designated area to do their thing while your 12-year-old would be in another part of the ground.

 

As for deathly silent ends stood up, well that's really a different debate. People prefer to stand at football for all sorts of reasons, not just because they like to sing. I myself have a recurring back problem which makes it extremely uncomfortable to sit in a football ground, and some people just feel more connected to the game in general if they are stood. It's a personal thing, just as there are different reasons people may prefer to sit.

Edited 14 August 2019 by Voll Blau

[CosbehFox]

21 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

 You rarely hear of crushes or big incidents, 

You commonly hear of stories where people are hospitalised in away ends when celebrating goals. We had a Leicester nearly lose their sight at Scunthorpe some years ago and for example a Sheffield United fan is awaiting surgery after breaking bones this weekend after the goal at Bournemouth. 

 

Ultimately it's all about giving the choice -  let's say there's 1k of fans what want it. Give an enclosure containing 1k fans - then we no longer have the arguments about people being stood in front of and blocking views. Rather than disgruntled fans, we have everyone accommodated for. Just to add....if you ever get the chance pop off to Germany, where you have modern stadiums which including terracing and seating. For example, Allianz Arena is an absolute brilliant modern stadium where it's terracing reconverts to seating for European games. 

Edited 14 August 2019 by Cardiff_Fox

[Finnegan]

I don't really understand people who are anti safe standing. 

 

Safe standing is like gay marriage, you don't want to marry a gay man, you don't have to. You don't want to stand in a safe standing spot? You don't have to. 

 

What is there to be anti? 

 

Clearly there's enough people that want to do it that it's viable for clubs to install a block. 

[volpeazzurro]

43 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

This basic fact seems to get forgotten sometimes. If fans hadn't have been fenced in, nobody would have died at Hillsborough. Obviously there were serious failures in other areas too (not least the policing and stewarding), but if those fences weren't there, the tragedy would not have happened. It's deeply frustrating when people blame terraces or 'drunken fans' for something that was basically caused by the fact that we used to keep fans in cages from which they could not escape if they became overcrowded.

You are of course right but you do have to ask yourself why these 'cages' were put there in the first place. Nevertheless, cages or not there was no excuse for overcrowding at any ground.

[ClaphamFox]

1 minute ago, volpeazzurro said:

You are of course right but you do have to ask yourself why these 'cages' were put there in the first place. Nevertheless, cages or not there was no excuse for overcrowding at any ground.

Of course I know why the cages were there. It just surprises me that the authorities didn't anticipate that putting very large numbers of people into an enclosed space with no escape route would not eventually result in tragedy. Safer solutions were surely available.

 

The problem now is that because all-seater stadiums were enforced after Hillsborough, any effort to reintroduce standing will be portrayed by some people as a backwards step. It wouldn't be, of course - terraces did not kill those poor people at Hillsborough and introducing safe standing would not represent a lowering of safety standards. But the issue is so emotive that the authorities may just decide it's easier to maintain their anti-terrace stance rather than accept that safe standing would be perfectly safe and viable.

[Ashley]

34 minutes ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

I just don't get this myself. How can standing affect atmosphere. I've stood on away ends that have been deathly silent. People create standing areas now in seated grounds. You rarely hear of crushes or big incidents, so why ripseats out so a load of morons can jump around waving scarves. I for one am glad my now 12 year old has been able to see the match each week and not the back of someone standing in front of him (like away games)

My friend. 

 

Look up safe standing and the culture behind it. For one it will reduce ticket costs, look at Germany for an example. 

 

It's not just setting up an area so people can jump up and down and waving scarves. 

[walkerleeds]

It's not even a discussion anymore. 

 

Safe standing has been implemented all over Europe (including Scotland) and has been a massive success. Those who are against it are pretty irrelevant to be honest. It's a matter of when and not if at the King Power. 

[Steve Earle]

Not a single question in the fan survey allowed us to register unhappiness with the lack of wifi at the KP, or even 4G! 

[StanSP]

Just now, Steve Earle said:

Not a single question in the fan survey allowed us to register unhappiness with the lack of wifi at the KP, or even 4G! 

It's just some initial research. It's not the be all and end all about the way services are in the stadium. 

 

[foxinsocks]

Looks like a significant hike in prices - my ST costs about £620 pa... I don't want to pay much more for access to a cafe.  I would spend more on food before the match and at half time if the queues weren't so bad.  I thik thay mst be aiming as middle class" professional executive" type  supporters.  Is this where we are going?

 

I understand the need to price test - but I wonders if there should be some consultation over the options they really have in mind.

[FoxyJim1987]

9 minutes ago, Ashley said:

My friend. 

 

Look up safe standing and the culture behind it. For one it will reduce ticket costs, look at Germany for an example. 

 

It's not just setting up an area so people can jump up and down and waving scarves. 

What culture though? People already have created standing areas at all grounds pretty much anyway. Like at ours it's the L1 idiots and the union FS corner, at old Trafford it's the two ends etc etc just because occasionally some twats over celebrate a goal and fall over doesn't mean we should bring back terracing

[HighPeakFox]

1 minute ago, FoxyJim1987 said:

What culture though? People already have created standing areas at all grounds pretty much anyway. Like at ours it's the L1 idiots and the union FS corner, at old Trafford it's the two ends etc etc just because occasionally some twats over celebrate a goal and fall over doesn't mean we should bring back terracing

At the risk of angering you, I believe that your attitude is much more the problem than any safe standing at the ground could ever be. It is almost as though you refuse to either acknowledge history, or refuse to look at the research done into this, or both. But by all means, call fans idiots and twats if it makes you feel better.