Stadium Expansion...?

[st albans fox]

5 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

I think they'll do both stands but what capacity split Its hard to say. Someone apparently itk posted on this thread ages ago that 45'000 would be the figure so I'd expect that to be honest. Given the redevelopment as a whole from a build point it wouldn't make sense to leave the north stand as a potential in the future when they can wrap it up in one go.

There are clearly savings to be made by doing both at the same time but that also involves more widespread disruption 

[UHDrive]

49 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

There are clearly savings to be made by doing both at the same time but that also involves more widespread disruption 

It would be nice if they could have some continuity built into the design so that the commercial/fan store stadium "bolt on" can be wrapped around a north/east stand extension which would ideally house lots of eateries, bars and cafes, mezzanine floors and general indoor seating and landscaping. Lots of glass and snazzy lifts etc. This could also carry the line of corporate boxes around depending on the design. 

I'm getting carried away but I also know that top doesn't do things by halves.

[ajthefox]

9 hours ago, UHDrive said:

Example: Rule of thumb is that if an architects/contractors firms take a project with a client instruction that they deal with planning/technical submissions and sign offs and coordinate all consultants, on site management and cdm's etc. I've worked on many bespoke projects Inc the M40 services which worked out roughly to a 4.5m fee for the company I worked for.

What do you mean by on-site management though? Do you mean contract administration or do you mean providing architectural services whilst it's being built? As I said, I'd be amazed if City don't have some company providing Project Management services on this and likely administering the contract too.

 

Was the service station procured traditionally or through D&B?

[Trav Le Bleu]

22 minutes ago, ajthefox said:

What do you mean by on-site management though? Do you mean contract administration or do you mean providing architectural services whilst it's being built? As I said, I'd be amazed if City don't have some company providing Project Management services on this and likely administering the contract too.

 

Was the service station procured traditionally or through D&B?

No, it was through the power of drum and bass.

[Black cats fan]

I'm a Sunderland fan and we moved into the Stadium of Light which was originally 42,000. Three years later when we were doing well under Peter Reid, the owner increased it to 48,000.

 

This was overly ambitious because the good run soon ended and we've been left with a stadium that is too big for a team of our standing (and lack of success). We averaged 40,000 in the PL which is fine in a 42,000 capacity but not so good with the current capacity. Its a shame because 42,000 is the right size for our fanbase. 

 

My point is that I think it would be best for you to increase one stand for now and see how things go. Hopefully you continue to do well but if you became a midtable team in the future, would you be filling 47,000 on a regular basis? 

 

[Sammy]

Rather than expanding the Kop I just want to see it made in to a double decker with safe-standing at the bottom, after all it was iconic 

 

[UHDrive]

3 hours ago, Black cats fan said:

I'm a Sunderland fan and we moved into the Stadium of Light which was originally 42,000. Three years later when we were doing well under Peter Reid, the owner increased it to 48,000.

 

This was overly ambitious because the good run soon ended and we've been left with a stadium that is too big for a team of our standing (and lack of success). We averaged 40,000 in the PL which is fine in a 42,000 capacity but not so good with the current capacity. Its a shame because 42,000 is the right size for our fanbase. 

 

My point is that I think it would be best for you to increase one stand for now and see how things go. Hopefully you continue to do well but if you became a midtable team in the future, would you be filling 47,000 on a regular basis? 

 

Hi! Welcome on here. I went to the stadium of light in a cup semi final and I have to say it's by far one of the best I've been too and I like the "bowl" feel of it. 

 

Re our expansion I'd split it into 3. 1) we are redeveloping the entire site around the stadium including for an indoor arena and so on. 2) Champions League, which we are aiming regularly for, I personally think 45'000 is attainable in  numbers. 3) Our owners have given us 10 years of sustainable and large growth. I'm not attacking your owners in anyway but I cant see any reason for us to go backwards, especially with the new training ground and the attraction of top players that that will bring with it.

 

Good luck to you by the way, you deserve to be in the premier league if not for your fans alone let alone your ground.

Edited 6 March 2020 by UHDrive

[Speedwell 🦊]

4 hours ago, Sammy said:

Rather than expanding the Kop I just want to see it made in to a double decker with safe-standing at the bottom, after all it was iconic 

 

Those were the days when you could go down when you wanted,and payed on the turnstiles to pen 3!
The atmosphere most of the time 

was awesome!

Happy memories!

[TWUKO]

I wonder if we'll do kind of what mk Don's did? When stadium mk opened it was 22k but the stadium was built deeper and with a higher roof than needed, it left an open void at the top of the stand with steelwork etc in place for extra tiers. They then added a 2nd tier all the way around bringing it to 32k and if they ever become anything other than a tin pot club they can add a final 3rd tier bringing it to 45k for minimal cost.

 

It would seem odd spending nearly £100 million on redeveloping the KP and surrounding site but only making 1 stand bigger on the actual stadium, at least put the infrastructure into the stadium redevelopment so that the north and south stands could potentially have extra tiers for minimal extra cost in future.

[Papasmurf]

4 hours ago, Sammy said:

Rather than expanding the Kop I just want to see it made in to a double decker with safe-standing at the bottom, after all it was iconic 

 

All for this as long as it’s replicated so you can’t see one of  the goals from the very back of each tier. 

[UHDrive]

5 hours ago, Sammy said:

Rather than expanding the Kop I just want to see it made in to a double decker with safe-standing at the bottom, after all it was iconic 

 

I think it would look dreadful. I'm all for a small portion of safe standing but you'd never need that in this day and age when comfort takes precedence.

 

Design wise it would look dreadful too especially with the cameras looking at it an hour before kick off.

 

You have to think of ticketing as well because the seating areas will take far more revenue despite the numbers game for the standing area. I think its tricky when positioning safe standing also because of aesthetics and symmetry to the stadium in general. Clubs like liverpool are more set for safe standing whereas ours is so symmetrical that anything other than seating, if not designed properly, would stick out like a sore thumb.

Edited 6 March 2020 by UHDrive

[Leeds Fox]

What would the outlay look like for a brand new stadium of about 45,000? Obviously this would be reliant on selling the current plot (if this is allowed) and purchasing new land for a development.
 

Not for a second saying this is the way we should go, just curious. 

[davieG]

16 minutes ago, UHDrive said:

I think it would look dreadful. I'm all for a small portion of safe standing but you'd never need that in this day and age when comfort takes precedence.

 

Design wise it would look dreadful too especially with the cameras looking at it an hour before kick off.

 

You have to think of ticketing as well because the seating areas will take far more revenue despite the numbers game for the standing area. I think its tricky when positioning safe standing also because of aesthetics and symmetry to the stadium in general. Clubs like liverpool are more set for safe standing whereas ours is so symmetrical that anything other than seating, if not designed properly, would stick out like a sore thumb.

I think most people would be happy to pay the same amount or there about to stand after all they do currently.

[Stadt]

38 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

What would the outlay look like for a brand new stadium of about 45,000? Obviously this would be reliant on selling the current plot (if this is allowed) and purchasing new land for a development.
 

Not for a second saying this is the way we should go, just curious. 

Everton's new 52,000 ground is costing just the £500m

[Leeds Fox]

35 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Everton's new 52,000 ground is costing just the £500m

 Jeeez. I think I was a bit mislead by the cost of our ground and that we owed £20m on it when we paid it the debt off. How much was it to build the KP initially? 

[Leeds Fox]

38 minutes ago, Stadt said:

Everton's new 52,000 ground is costing just the £500m

 

1 minute ago, Leeds Fox said:

 Jeeez. I think I was a bit mislead by the cost of our ground and that we owed £20m on it when we paid it the debt off. How much was it to build the KP initially? 

Ignore that, a quick Google search showed me it cost around £37m to build. Not sure if that included the land etc. 

[Stadt]

2 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

Ignore that, a quick Google search showed me it cost around £37m to build. Not sure if that included the land etc. 

Which is roughly £60m in today's money

[st albans fox]

The ground that the stadium is built on can’t be worth that much compared to the cost of building a new stadium from scratch elsewhere ....  additional monies can be better spent elsewhere 

[Speedwell 🦊]

2 hours ago, TWUKO said:

I wonder if we'll do kind of what mk Don's did? When stadium mk opened it was 22k but the stadium was built deeper and with a higher roof than needed, it left an open void at the top of the stand with steelwork etc in place for extra tiers. They then added a 2nd tier all the way around bringing it to 32k and if they ever become anything other than a tin pot club they can add a final 3rd tier bringing it to 45k for minimal cost.

 

It would seem odd spending nearly £100 million on redeveloping the KP and surrounding site but only making 1 stand bigger on the actual stadium, at least put the infrastructure into the stadium redevelopment so that the north and south stands could potentially have extra tiers for minimal extra cost in future.

I was told before they built the KP that they were going to put the infrastructure in place to expand the north and south stands.

But decided against it at the time to keep costs down.

A daft decision imo.

[snoopy87]

11 minutes ago, Speedwell 🦊 said:

I was told before they built the KP that they were going to put the infrastructure in place to expand the north and south stands.

But decided against it at the time to keep costs down.

A daft decision imo.

In hindsight it looks like a bad decision. However, at the time, and with the downward trajectory the club was going in, it was probably a wise choice. We couldn't pay for the stadium we had at that particular time, let alone the cost being even higher.

 

Little things like that are probably what saved us from going completely under.

[tylesta]

7 hours ago, UHDrive said:

Hi! Welcome on here. I went to the stadium of light in a cup semi final and I have to say it's by far one of the best I've been too and I like the "bowl" feel of it. 

 

Re our expansion I'd split it into 3. 1) we are redeveloping the entire site around the stadium including for an indoor arena and so on. 2) Champions League, which we are aiming regularly for, I personally think 45'000 is attainable in  numbers. 3) Our owners have given us 10 years of sustainable and large growth. I'm not attacking your owners in anyway but I cant see any reason for us to go backwards, especially with the new training ground and the attraction of top players that that will bring with it.

 

Good luck to you by the way, you deserve to be in the premier league if not for your fans alone let alone your ground.

We have Lee congerton though

[Bayfox]

18 minutes ago, tylesta said:

We have Lee congerton though

And there is the problem. 1 bad appointment or 1 bad transfer window and it can all come collapsing down around  you.

 

That's not to say we shouldn't show ambition and the move from Filbert St to the Walkers clearly increased crowds, but the face of football was changing then. Improved facilities etc played a part.

 

But we really don't want to end up in a Sunderland situation. I do fear however we will end up with the Andield and Old Trafford situation with a tourist fanbase and in our case many will be there for the opposition and not us further diluting the atmosphere.

 

It's certainly a fine balance for the club, there are plenty out there that can't get season tickets and individual match costs are exorbitant in comparison and to grow we need those people to stay interested, but will they want to come if we end up back in the championship.

 

Newcastle suffered from bad ownership but once had been an established PL side. There's a few sides that had comfortable stints in the PL then disappeared.

Edited 6 March 2020 by Bayfox

[Speedwell 🦊]

1 hour ago, snoopy87 said:

In hindsight it looks like a bad decision. However, at the time, and with the downward trajectory the club was going in, it was probably a wise choice. We couldn't pay for the stadium we had at that particular time, let alone the cost being even higher.

 

Little things like that are probably what saved us from going completely under.

I see your point,and you’re probably right.

Would be good to know how much it would have cost then compared to now.

If anybody knows??

I know we were in the shit,but we were never a Cov,Bolton or Bury.I don’t think personally we would have ever gone under.

Edited 6 March 2020 by Speedwell 🦊

[UHDrive]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

The ground that the stadium is built on can’t be worth that much compared to the cost of building a new stadium from scratch elsewhere ....  additional monies can be better spent elsewhere 

Totally agree. Thats why I think they should max this stadium expansion design wise for every penny. It must look the part with both stands developed and both ends merged into each other at tapered roof level.

[Heathrow fox]

3 hours ago, Speedwell 🦊 said:

I see your point,and you’re probably right.

Would be good to know how much it would have cost then compared to now.

If anybody knows??

I know we were in the shit,but we were never a Cov,Bolton or Bury.I don’t think personally we would have ever gone under.

According to Lineker we were minutes away.I don’t know what would have happened if we hadn’t won promotion that year either.