Stadium Expansion...?

[Vlad the Fox]

3 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I always wish I'd had the chance to visit Filbert street before it was demolished, everyone always raves about it and I never saw it in person. 

 

The Kop now is a bit louder than the family end, but wouldnt describe it as vastly different anymore.

When it was good it was great but there was a lot wrong, we needed to move. It’s a shame that the new stadium couldn’t have somehow incorporated a modern version of the double decker has that would have really helped the atmosphere and may have helped to keep the supporters who were in the kop together rather than split them which is what happened.

[Ashley]

1 hour ago, foxgas said:

I have sat in SK3 since I relocated my seat from Filbert st, so I would not appreciate being shifted to other parts of the ground at double the price. When I see the boozers staggering in and out before, after, and during the match I recall those horrific scenes at Hillsborough that bought about all seater stadia. Excessive drink and sports events just don't work where I am concerned. Sorry but I believe I am entitled to an opinion and welcome the club's survey to put the demand for standing to supporters.

 

Sorry but you're ignorant and you need to go and educate yourself on Safe Standing sir. 

 

 

[kyleolly]

19 minutes ago, Vlad the Fox said:

I feel a little bit younger now  

 

When I left the relative luxury of the carling stand to the kop it was like moving to a different world, the Wild West  but as a 17 year old it was everything I’d hoped it would be, dirty, rough and smelly but intense and wildly passionate and the last few years there when we had the whole kop it was bloody loud under that low roof.

I started out in the east stand ventured over to the carling stand and then to the kop they were all fantastic times

[stripeyfox]

1 hour ago, foxgas said:

I have sat in SK3 since I relocated my seat from Filbert st, so I would not appreciate being shifted to other parts of the ground at double the price. When I see the boozers staggering in and out before, after, and during the match I recall those horrific scenes at Hillsborough that bought about all seater stadia. Excessive drink and sports events just don't work where I am concerned. Sorry but I believe I am entitled to an opinion and welcome the club's survey to put the demand for standing to supporters.

Lets get something straight for those who even after 30 years can't understand it. Hillsborough occurred because of poor crowd control and a poorly maintained stadium and mostly because of a guy in charge who by his own admission had not been to the stadium before nor read the safety plan. Whilst there is not any doubt that there were plenty of boisterous and some probably very drunk fans there, this was not unusual at the time (and not unusual now). People drink before games - the police and stewards are there to keep us safe - even those who have maybe had one too many beers.

 

People get tanked up at rugby, cricket and football - we are fortunate these days that we have well designed, well policed and well stewarded stadia to protect people.

 

 

[Hollyfox]

20 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I always wish I'd had the chance to visit Filbert street before it was demolished, everyone always raves about it and I never saw it in person. 

 

The Kop now is a bit louder than the family end, but wouldnt describe it as vastly different anymore.

Very good and loud at times, usually for the Derby games. 

The Spurs game when O'Neil was possibly going to Leeds, was one of the loudest imo. 

Some games were pretty drab though. 

[Vestan Pance]

1 hour ago, foxgas said:

I have sat in SK3 since I relocated my seat from Filbert st, so I would not appreciate being shifted to other parts of the ground at double the price. When I see the boozers staggering in and out before, after, and during the match I recall those horrific scenes at Hillsborough that bought about all seater stadia. Excessive drink and sports events just don't work where I am concerned. Sorry but I believe I am entitled to an opinion and welcome the club's survey to put the demand for standing to supporters.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-england-merseyside-35473732

I would also take some time to read about the Hillsborough disaster and the myths surrounding the involvement of alcohol.

[Hollyfox]

4 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

Lets get something straight for those who even after 30 years can't understand it. Hillsborough occurred because of poor crowd control and a poorly maintained stadium and mostly because of a guy in charge who by his own admission had not been to the stadium before nor read the safety plan. Whilst there is not any doubt that there were plenty of boisterous and some probably very drunk fans there, this was not unusual at the time (and not unusual now). People drink before games - the police and stewards are there to keep us safe - even those who have maybe had one too many beers.

 

People get tanked up at rugby, cricket and football - we are fortunate these days that we have well designed, well policed and well stewarded stadia to protect people.

 

 

I was at Arsenal v Everton in a league Cup semi final 2nd leg a few days before Hillsborough. 

They were re doing the clock end at the time and behind the open end was loads of scaffolding and other building stuff. 

 

It was a sell out but people got up onto the scaffolding and had a pretty good view of the pitch and refused to get down when the police were ordering them to do so. 

 

Me and my mates payed on the gate and, once inside, was one of the most scary situations of my life. 

 

It was just 'give us your money and keep coming in' and what happened at Hillsborough could very easily have happened that night. 

 

I just levered myself in front of a stantion (I think that's what they were called) and kept my back firmly to it. 

 

People were being carried over the top after fainting, crushed etc and passed to the St John's ambulance people down behind the goal. 

 

Their was nothing you could do, once in and it was pretty dreadful. 

 

Imo it was a combination of many different things and I still feel Hillsborough was similar. 

 

I was young, had a few beers and would do anything I could to get in. 

 

Had Leicester got to an FA cup semi final, I would have done anything to get in, with or without a ticket. 

 

Highbury, that night, and Hillsborough was a complete mess.

 

Football was different then in terms of facilities, organisation and the mentality of many that attended. 

 

Including myself. 

[stripeyfox]

7 minutes ago, Hollyfox said:

I was at Arsenal v Everton in a league Cup semi final 2nd leg a few days before Hillsborough. 

They were re doing the clock end at the time and behind the open end was loads of scaffolding and other building stuff. 

 

It was a sell out but people got up onto the scaffolding and had a pretty good view of the pitch and refused to get down when the police were ordering them to do so. 

 

Me and my mates payed on the gate and, once inside, was one of the most scary situations of my life. 

 

It was just 'give us your money and keep coming in' and what happened at Hillsborough could very easily have happened that night. 

 

I just levered myself in front of a stantion (I think that's what they were called) and kept my back firmly to it. 

 

People were being carried over the top after fainting, crushed etc and passed to the St John's ambulance people down behind the goal. 

 

Their was nothing you could do, once in and it was pretty dreadful. 

 

Imo it was a combination of many different things and I still feel Hillsborough was similar. 

 

I was young, had a few beers and would do anything I could to get in. 

 

Had Leicester got to an FA cup semi final, I would have done anything to get in, with or without a ticket. 

 

Highbury, that night, and Hillsborough was a complete mess.

 

Football was different then in terms of facilities, organisation and the mentality of many that attended. 

 

Including myself. 

This. As someone who was in my teens at the time I remember this - even when it said "All Ticket" - that didn't mean anything. I got into several "AT" games by just turning up and bunging a few quid to the turnstile operator. 

 

If Leicester had been in that Semi Final (fat chance) I would have been there no matter what. And I probably would have had a few beers too

 

in 2016 when we had out title "party" against Everton there were thousands outside the KP. The club and police knew that they would come and they had a safety plan in place to make sure everyone was safe. 

 

Crowds can be dangerous things - you only have to look a stampedes and crushes at concerts, religious gatherings etc to understand that. (presumably alcohol isn't a factor in the crushes at Mecca for example).

 

 

 

[Nickfosse]

1 hour ago, Ashley said:

 

Sorry but you're ignorant and you need to go and educate yourself on Safe Standing sir. 

 

 

I think one of the biggest problems is that many confuse reintroducing terracing with safe standing. 

I mentioned in another thread that I was in SK4 at Filbert Street when we played Burnley having been promoted. They let too many in and I could barely breathe let alone put my feet on the floor. I’ve never been so pleased for a game to end (I couldn’t see a thing either) and when the Hillsborough disaster happened I realise how close we came to a similar tragedy. 

In spite of this experience, I am a massive supporter of safe standing. It is completely different and would not result in similar tragedies at all. I believe it would have a positive impact on stadium atmosphere which is much needed in my opinion. 

[davieG]

Not only was Hillsborough down to overcrowding it was made worse by the fencing so there was no escape route.

Of course we need to remember why those fences were there.

[volpeazzurro]

14 hours ago, stripeyfox said:

Lets get something straight for those who even after 30 years can't understand it. Hillsborough occurred because of poor crowd control and a poorly maintained stadium and mostly because of a guy in charge who by his own admission had not been to the stadium before nor read the safety plan. Whilst there is not any doubt that there were plenty of boisterous and some probably very drunk fans there, this was not unusual at the time (and not unusual now). People drink before games - the police and stewards are there to keep us safe - even those who have maybe had one too many beers.

 

People get tanked up at rugby, cricket and football - we are fortunate these days that we have well designed, well policed and well stewarded stadia to protect people.

 

 

Most of this is all very true but the individual has to take responsibility as well for their behaviour.  Just because you're lagged up and acting like a twat doesn't mean that if something goes wrong at a sporting event that it's the fault of officials who are supposedly there to wet nurse you. There was undoubtedly corporate responsibility blame at Hillsborough but for me ... every supporter who turned up that day drunk or not, with or without a ticket, whose behaviour consisted of yobishly pushing and shoving in the manner they did until those gates were opened due to fear of crushing were  for me, also culpable. When a large crowd on mass starts to behave in a particular way a smaller number of officials are not going to be able to control them unless you want the same number of police at a sporting event as you would a potentially violent demonstration. I would imagine decisions regarding staffing levels had to be made and this was after all just a football match.

 

It was a tragic event and I feel terrible  for the families of those that died for all the obvious reasons but, football crowd behaviour was also way different back then and it's difficult to judge history by present day standards, training and understanding. The club and police have rightly been investigated for their dreadful and consequencial failings but the TV footage doesn't lie and the behaviour of some of those supporters was undoubtedly in part to blame for the situation that unfolded, though it now seems politically incorrect to even suggest so. 

Edited 14 August 2019 by volpeazzurro

[StanSP]

Just took the survey. 

 

Some of the prices were alarmingly high but I'm hoping the fact they said all scenarios are hypothetical actually meant something. 

 

Encouraging to see that safe standing is one of the priorities and something they're willing to entertain though. 

 

It didn't mention anything about a hotel though which is something that was seen on some plans before? Perhaps no hotel facility for the time being? 

[Vestan Pance]

52 minutes ago, volpeazzurro said:

Most of this is all very true but the individual has to take responsibility as well for their behaviour.  Just because you're lagged up and acting like a twat doesn't mean that if something goes wrong at a sporting event that it's the fault of officials who are supposedly there to wet nurse you. There was undoubtedly corporate responsibility blame at Hillsborough but for me ... every supporter who turned up that day drunk or not, with or without a ticket, whose behaviour consisted of yobishly pushing and shoving in the manner they did until those gates were opened due to fear of crushing were  for me, also culpable. When a large crowd on mass starts to behave in a particular way a smaller number of officials are not going to be able to control them unless you want the same number of police at a sporting event as you would a potentially violent demonstration. I would imagine decisions regarding staffing levels had to be made and this was after all just a football match.

 

It was a terrible event and I fel terrible but for the families of those that died for all the obvious readons but, football crowd behaviour was way different back then and it's difficult to judge history by present day standards, training and understanding. The club and police have rightly been investigated for their dreadful and consequencial failings but the TV footage doesn't lie and the behaviour of some of those supporters was undoubtedly in part to blame for the situation that unfolded, though it now seems politically incorrect to even suggest so. 

You're right going to a football match was very different in those days. Why do you think that was? People haven't changed but the way crowds are handled has. The main change is that supporters are now seen as people rather than herded animals.

[ozleicester]

11 hours ago, Vlad the Fox said:

Me neither, however when I checked my spam folder I’d received a message from a lovely sounding girl called Lydia who lives in South America, she’s ‘made her mind up that she desires only me’. I feel this could be love. I think I’ll send her a pink cap as a token of my devotion.

You'll be supporting the safe wanking area then?

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, Vestan Pance said:

You're right going to a football match was very different in those days. Why do you think that was? People haven't changed but the way crowds are handled has. The main change is that supporters are now seen as people rather than herded animals.

They were treated as people before all this football violence began, those fans who turned up looking for trouble are the reason fans were then treated as cattle because that's how a fair number of them were behaving.

 

When I first went down I used to stand in the East Stand often next to opposition fans there was no trouble just friendly piss taking and seeing who could out sing the other.

[HighPeakFox]

10 hours ago, Hollyfox said:

I was at Arsenal v Everton in a league Cup semi final 2nd leg a few days before Hillsborough. 

They were re doing the clock end at the time and behind the open end was loads of scaffolding and other building stuff. 

 

It was a sell out but people got up onto the scaffolding and had a pretty good view of the pitch and refused to get down when the police were ordering them to do so. 

 

Me and my mates payed on the gate and, once inside, was one of the most scary situations of my life. 

 

It was just 'give us your money and keep coming in' and what happened at Hillsborough could very easily have happened that night. 

 

I just levered myself in front of a stantion (I think that's what they were called) and kept my back firmly to it. 

 

People were being carried over the top after fainting, crushed etc and passed to the St John's ambulance people down behind the goal. 

 

Their was nothing you could do, once in and it was pretty dreadful. 

 

Imo it was a combination of many different things and I still feel Hillsborough was similar. 

 

I was young, had a few beers and would do anything I could to get in. 

 

Had Leicester got to an FA cup semi final, I would have done anything to get in, with or without a ticket. 

 

Highbury, that night, and Hillsborough was a complete mess.

 

Football was different then in terms of facilities, organisation and the mentality of many that attended. 

 

Including myself. 

Well said. I seem to think that Nick Hornby referenced that match in 'Fever Pitch', making a very similar set of points. 

[Foxin_Mad]

One of the main problems at Hillsborough and many grounds at that time were the massive **** off locked cages that you were herded into. Someone made an error herding people into the central pens, when other pens were almost empty, there would have been enough capacity to get everyone in, If the gates at the front were open or even if they could have been opened there would have been people on the pitch at the worst. 

[HybridFox]

I'm excited about the potential arena as part of the complex. I think it's long overdue Leicester had a capacity arena. DeMontfort Hall was never really big enough to attract massive artists. 

 

In terms of the ground, I would welcome a Fanzone outside. Went to West Brom a couple of seasons ago, and their big screen showing other TV games was fantastic.

 

Safe standing is also a must. I just hope we can get the support from the league and government to make it happen.

[ClaphamFox]

9 hours ago, davieG said:

Not only was Hillsborough down to overcrowding it was made worse by the fencing so there was no escape route.

Of course we need to remember why those fences were there.

This basic fact seems to get forgotten sometimes. If fans hadn't have been fenced in, nobody would have died at Hillsborough. Obviously there were serious failures in other areas too (not least the policing and stewarding), but if those fences weren't there, the tragedy would not have happened. It's deeply frustrating when people blame terraces or 'drunken fans' for something that was basically caused by the fact that we used to keep fans in cages from which they could not escape if they became overcrowded.

[Raw Dykes]

11 hours ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Shame it only holds 25k 

We could still have a bigger version of it, though.

[davieG]

1 minute ago, ClaphamFox said:

This basic fact seems to get forgotten sometimes. If fans hadn't have been fenced in, nobody would have died at Hillsborough. Obviously there were serious failures in other areas too (not least the policing and stewarding), but if those fences weren't there, the tragedy would not have happened. It's deeply frustrating when people blame terraces or 'drunken fans' for something that was basically caused by the fact that we used to keep fans in cages from which they could not escape if they became overcrowded.

Absolutely but we need to remember why those fences were there, yeah they were in hindsight a bad solution to a massive problem but games where regularly being held up by football hooligans turning up and intent on invading the pitch with the sole aim of fighting with opposition fans.

 

 

[ClaphamFox]

12 hours ago, foxgas said:

I have sat in SK3 since I relocated my seat from Filbert st, so I would not appreciate being shifted to other parts of the ground at double the price. When I see the boozers staggering in and out before, after, and during the match I recall those horrific scenes at Hillsborough that bought about all seater stadia. Excessive drink and sports events just don't work where I am concerned. Sorry but I believe I am entitled to an opinion and welcome the club's survey to put the demand for standing to supporters.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but if you really believe that Hillsborough was caused by terraces or by drunken fans, then your opinion is woefully ill-informed.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

4 minutes ago, davieG said:

Absolutely but we need to remember why those fences were there, yeah they were in hindsight a bad solution to a massive problem but games where regularly being held up by football hooligans turning up and intent on invading the pitch with the sole aim of fighting with opposition fans.

Fences are present in some of the best stadiums in the world (the Allianz Arena has one at both ends behind the goals), they aren't dangerous becasue the crowd behind them in managed properly. Standing isn't inherently dangerous nor are fences. 

Edited 14 August 2019 by Sol thewall Bamba

[UniFox21]

3 minutes ago, davieG said:

Absolutely but we need to remember why those fences were there, yeah they were in hindsight a bad solution to a massive problem but games where regularly being held up by football hooligans turning up and intent on invading the pitch with the sole aim of fighting with opposition fans.

 

 

Maybe naive of me here; but how bad did football hooliganism get that fences were required? 

I've always read and heard it wasn't great but never realised that was the reason the fencing were used.

Edited 14 August 2019 by UniFox21

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said:

Fences are present in some of the best stadiums in the world (the Allianz Arena has one), they aren't dangerous becasue the crowd behind them in managed properly. Standing isn't inherently dangerous nor are fences. 

Agreed, none of the standing or fencing are dangerous alone. It's the combination of them with a huge number of factors that caused the tragedies we've seen.  

 

Just seems difficult for some people to realise that