Gamble92 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 23 hours ago, Stadt said: Vardy's clearly a one off. If we had to give every player 2 seasons despite how shit they were we'd really hate Luis Hernandez, Adrien Silva and Gokhan Inler. Agreed. But i can honestly say the last thing I do is get on anyone's back unless I can actually see a lack of effort or its Carl Cort. There seems to have always just been a strange scapegoat thing going on with our fans for as long as I've supported us. I could name each one through each era but i won't. Richie Wellens never did too well though did he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surrifox Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 6 hours ago, Gamble92 said: Agreed. But i can honestly say the last thing I do is get on anyone's back unless I can actually see a lack of effort or its Carl Cort. There seems to have always just been a strange scapegoat thing going on with our fans for as long as I've supported us. I could name each one through each era but i won't. Richie Wellens never did too well though did he? 6 hours ago, Gamble92 said: Agreed. But i can honestly say the last thing I do is get on anyone's back unless I can actually see a lack of effort or its Carl Cort. There seems to have always just been a strange scapegoat thing going on with our fans for as long as I've supported us. I could name each one through each era but i won't. Richie Wellens never did too well though did he? Alan Woollett was terrible and responsible for everything that was wrong at that time 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chocolate Teapot Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 Are we that bothered? He's going to be revved up and wanting to prove a point on saturday. Leicester > England. Of our 5 england players i'd put chilwell 4th in terms of quality over the last 6 months or so, and he has the most caps. Weird. Southgate's love of mount and anyone that comes through chelsea is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARM1968 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 5 minutes ago, Abrasive fox said: Are we that bothered? He's going to be revved up and wanting to prove a point on saturday. Leicester > England. Of our 5 england players i'd put chilwell 4th in terms of quality over the last 6 months or so, and he has the most caps. Weird. Southgate's love of mount and anyone that comes through chelsea is weird. Weird AND pathetic - although Mount is a good player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 On 10/09/2019 at 01:41, Gamble92 said: Let's face it, no one on here can really make an opinion of any player too quickly after Jamie Vardy. There is a very big difference between a player stepping up five divisions, or whatever it was, and an established Premier League player changing club. Even with that in mind, Vardy's transformation has been nothing short of miraculous. I think that he either sold his soul at a crossroads or he has a picture of himself in the attic that is slowly changing into Ade Akinbiyi. To use a miracle as a benchmark would be foolish. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filbertway Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 Perez isn't going to improve on what he is. He's improved the squad but shouldn't be starting games. A better option off the bench than Oka. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 On 10/09/2019 at 02:41, Gamble92 said: Let's face it, no one on here can really make an opinion of any player too quickly after Jamie Vardy. Been saying this since.......Well errm... Jamie Vardy.!!! We shout out about Learning from mistakes.....Then conveniently forget, our "Great Escape". That title,and all the mongrels/travellers that gave us our dreams. Then..Ben.Chilwell,Evans,Ricardo, of late, Soyu..!! In Maddisons First season there were the yelpers!!! My own pet phrase sticks for many/majority on foxestalk, They cant Spot or Pick a player,and Jump on individual players far too early. Look I aint much better, though any Player behind the foxes badge,gets at least a season or more...Its not the game Performance critic,or even the simple Critic over a few games.gut the demeaning of any of our players future PL-competence,or team selection without looking at the bigger picture, That all Football players and Team managers,need time,to tweek ,and adapt even re-create themselves as individuals,or for the teams developement.. Its a continual flow,its how Football is....Time and patience,are important to recognise,and respect ,relaxing there will be failures, while analysing players/managers competetent levels... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, fuchsntf said: Been saying this since.......Well errm... Jamie Vardy.!!! We shout out about Learning from mistakes.....Then conveniently forget, our "Great Escape". That title,and all the mongrels/travellers that gave us our dreams. Then..Ben.Chilwell,Evans,Ricardo, of late, Soyu..!! In Maddisons First season there were the yelpers!!! My own pet phrase sticks for many/majority on foxestalk, They cant Spot or Pick a player,and Jump on individual players far too early. Look I aint much better, though any Player behind the foxes badge,gets at least a season or more...Its not the game Performance critic,or even the simple Critic over a few games.gut the demeaning of any of our players future PL-competence,or team selection without looking at the bigger picture, That all Football players and Team managers,need time,to tweek ,and adapt even re-create themselves as individuals,or for the teams developement.. Its a continual flow,its how Football is....Time and patience,are important to recognise,and respect ,relaxing there will be failures, while analysing players/managers competetent levels... That's because there hasn't been any others and JV was stepping up several divisions. Experience shows us that you can judge a player after a dozen games max as to whether they'll make it or not, imo. After that it is blind hope over experience. I give you Inler, Hernandez, Silva, Nacho, Musa, All started badly and stayed bad. This idea of 'give them time' is a fallacy. The poor souls still waiting for Nacho to come good after two years will have a very long wait. The only exception to this is players coming through the ranks and making a huge step up in class such as Chillwell, Choudhury and Barnes or players coming through from lower divisions for the same reason. You can look at the players that made it - Kante, Shinji, Tielemans, Maguire, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Huth, Evans, Ricardo, N'didi ... They started well and only needed a handful of games to adapt at most in the case of Ricardo for example. Even the average players started average and stayed average - Iborra, Mendy. Back ot, in the case of Perez, he has only had four games. I expect him to be OK to average. I expect to see a very similar level of performance from him as we saw at Newcastle. Whether you think that is good enough or worth £30m is up for debate. Edited 11 September 2019 by murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 2 hours ago, murphy said: That's because there hasn't been any others and JV was stepping up several divisions. Experience shows us that you can judge a player after a dozen games max as to whether they'll make it or not, imo. After that it is blind hope over experience. I give you Inler, Hernandez, Silva, Nacho, Musa, All started badly and stayed bad. This idea of 'give them time' is a fallacy. The poor souls still waiting for Nacho to come good after two years will have a very long wait. The only exception to this is players coming through the ranks and making a huge step up in class such as Chillwell, Choudhury and Barnes or players coming through from lower divisions for the same reason. You can look at the players that made it - Kante, Shinji, Tielemans, Maguire, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Huth, Evans, Ricardo, N'didi ... They started well and only needed a handful of games to adapt at most in the case of Ricardo for example. Even the average players started average and stayed average - Iborra, Mendy. Back ot, in the case of Perez, he has only had four games. I expect him to be OK to average. I expect to see a very similar level of performance from him as we saw at Newcastle. Whether you think that is good enough or worth £30m is up for debate. Ricardo,Fuchs..Evans,Shinji,& Maguire had Posters from their own individual start,questioning their performances and future Performance values & competence Every Single Player has gone through the thresher....including Kante!!! Ricardo was hammered by some regulars for 3 months..!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weller54 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 2 hours ago, murphy said: That's because there hasn't been any others and JV was stepping up several divisions. Experience shows us that you can judge a player after a dozen games max as to whether they'll make it or not, imo. After that it is blind hope over experience. I give you Inler, Hernandez, Silva, Nacho, Musa, All started badly and stayed bad. This idea of 'give them time' is a fallacy. The poor souls still waiting for Nacho to come good after two years will have a very long wait. The only exception to this is players coming through the ranks and making a huge step up in class such as Chillwell, Choudhury and Barnes or players coming through from lower divisions for the same reason. You can look at the players that made it - Kante, Shinji, Tielemans, Maguire, Cambiasso, Fuchs, Huth, Evans, Ricardo, N'didi ... They started well and only needed a handful of games to adapt at most in the case of Ricardo for example. Even the average players started average and stayed average - Iborra, Mendy. Back ot, in the case of Perez, he has only had four games. I expect him to be OK to average. I expect to see a very similar level of performance from him as we saw at Newcastle. Whether you think that is good enough or worth £30m is up for debate. No debate necessary... He's never worth 30m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 4 minutes ago, weller54 said: No debate necessary... He's never worth 30m. I totally agree..but he has nothing to do with the transcended poor Transfer business..!! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 He's played three games. Three games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 6 minutes ago, Fox92 said: He's played three games. Three games. He's played 182 Premier League games. Informed opinions are quite legitimate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 (edited) 56 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Ricardo,Fuchs..Evans,Shinji,& Maguire had Posters from their own individual start,questioning their performances and future Performance values & competence Every Single Player has gone through the thresher....including Kante!!! Ricardo was hammered by some regulars for 3 months..!! Absolute nonsense. Even for you! The Edward Lear master of nonsense. Edited 11 September 2019 by murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, murphy said: He's played 182 Premier League games. Informed opinions are quite legitimate. Not for this club, this squad, this team, this manager. I get bored of people slating new signings within their first month here. It happened with Evans and Ricardo last season. Edited 11 September 2019 by Fox92 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 2 minutes ago, Fox92 said: Not for this club, this squad, this team, this manager. I get bored of people slating new signings within their first month here. It happened with Evans and Ricardo last season. But you know what you're getting. I get bored of being told that I can't have an opinion on a player or a signing until some arbitrary date in the future. My opinion is not based on the three games he's played but career to date and frankly I don't think he's good enough. Imagine if we signed Lee Cattermole. Now imagine we signed Luis Suarez. Would you really not have any opinion about that? One good perhaps, one bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fox92 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 43 minutes ago, murphy said: But you know what you're getting. I get bored of being told that I can't have an opinion on a player or a signing until some arbitrary date in the future. My opinion is not based on the three games he's played but career to date and frankly I don't think he's good enough. Imagine if we signed Lee Cattermole. Now imagine we signed Luis Suarez. Would you really not have any opinion about that? One good perhaps, one bad? You can have an opinion, everybody can, that's the point of the forum. But it's the same thing every season regardless of who we sign. If they don't look good in two games the same people on here start to write them off. Personally, regardless of who we sign I'm always willing to give them a good month or more first not just three games if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 58 minutes ago, murphy said: Absolute nonsense. Even for you! The Edward Lear master of nonsense. Read the Historical posts,over the last 3 yrs on any of those players....I dont Need to Quality or confirm...Nonsense..!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 42 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: Read the Historical posts,over the last 3 yrs on any of those players....I dont Need to Quality or confirm...Nonsense..!! I did. I was there. But lets' just agree to disagree on that. You're not going to go trawling through historical posts to try and support your argument and I am certainly not going to, to show that you're wrong. I have better things to do. There's a sock drawer upstairs in urgent need of tidying. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charl91 Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 1 hour ago, murphy said: Imagine if we signed Lee Cattermole. Now imagine we signed Luis Suarez. Would you really not have any opinion about that? One good perhaps, one bad? I suppose you're right. One is a horrible biting, diving and hand-balling cheat. The other is a world class midfielder that we should have signed instead of Cambiasso. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HighPeakFox Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 Opinions are great, unwillingness to change them or admit being wrong are less so. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post UpTheLeagueFox Posted 11 September 2019 Popular Post Share Posted 11 September 2019 Lots of football fans pretty much go OTT (either way) about players / managers after a handful of games. Let's not forget Vardy struggled in the Championship at first and again in his first PL season and he's turned out rather well at the top level. Perez hasn't really worked... yet. He may not work for us of course but sticking the boot in this early doesn't reflect too well on fans. 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 9 minutes ago, HighPeakFox said: Opinions are great, unwillingness to change them or admit being wrong are less so. That is exactly what I have said all along to counter this idea that you can't have an opinion based upon what you see. Leaving Perez aside, as my opinion on his signing is based upon his Premier League career not on three games, but I have always argued that it is perfectly reasonable to call it as you see it and that if you are going to criticise a player then you should also be happy to give credit where it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trav Le Bleu Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 16 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: Lots of football fans pretty much go OTT (either way) about players / managers after a handful of games. Let's not forget Vardy struggled in the Championship at first and again in his first PL season and he's turned out rather well at the top level. Perez hasn't really worked... yet. He may not work for us of course but sticking the boot in this early doesn't reflect too well on fans. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murphy Posted 11 September 2019 Share Posted 11 September 2019 (edited) 37 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said: Lots of football fans pretty much go OTT (either way) about players / managers after a handful of games. Let's not forget Vardy struggled in the Championship at first and again in his first PL season and he's turned out rather well at the top level. Perez hasn't really worked... yet. He may not work for us of course but sticking the boot in this early doesn't reflect too well on fans. I don't know how many times I can keep saying the same thing but it's not about sticking the boot in after three games, for me, it is disappointment in signing a player for a position that is really the missing piece of the jigsaw and falling short. That's based on what I already know of him, not three games. I find it more bizarre to expect that a player that you know, might somehow become a different player when he signs for us. Now where's that sock drawer... Edited 11 September 2019 by murphy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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