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12 hours ago, Markyblue said:

You Vote for the mp not the party, ...absolute utter crap.

 

11 hours ago, RobHawk said:

Actually it's not. But it does highlight a huge flaw in our electoral system because alot of people do vote for the party having no idea who the candidate is or what they stand for. 

 

The conversatives themselves have described themselves as a broad church, so if you just vote Tory, how do you know what part of that broad church you are voting for. There's some pretty despicable MPs from all major parties that shouldn't get near being an MP, but they stand for the right party in the right area and hey presto, they are in!


Thanks Rob you saved me typing out an explanation.

 

Mark, on your ballot paper ain’t Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn. It’s the candidate to be the MP for your constituency. I’m not saying this is how it should be, but in the current system it’s how it is. 
 

14 hours ago, MattP said:

This is just a complete rewrite of history, whether you were leave or remain or right of left it was made pretty clear that the Tories were chasing a hard Brexit and Labour a softer one, Mansion House and Lancaster House confirmed this. 

 

My MP was a Remainer who backed Cameron's deal - I've still got my letter from him - I voted for him though because I expect him to implement the manifesto he stood on, not run off to the complete opposite end of the argument. 

 

To suggest people should look so deeply into candidates they have to now judge whether they might completely U-Turn on any issue is crazy, Lib Dem students who voted on free tuition were entitled to be angry and this is exactly the same.

 

The final insult from MP'S like him is then the desertion when the next election comes, too scared to face the electorate he shafted to runs off to a Lib Dem friendly seat.

 

What’s a rewrite? Ever since the referendum the Conservatives have had a hardline remain rebel wing, the hardline Brexit European Research Group, and the rest of the week party supporting party policy. It was always going to be a tightrope act, the party wasn’t hunky dory until Boris and suddenly imploded into dissent.

 

This the issue is, this isn’t a U-turn. Again Philip Lee has always been a Remain MP. It’s not going to take a deep dive to know if you’re dedicated to Brexit, Philip Lee isn’t an ideal MP for you. 
 

And yes, Lib Dem students did feel let down by their party, hence at the next election the Lib Dem’s were totally decimated, as is my point. If Lee does go stand in another constituency, then his current constituents are still free to vote in a new Tory MP. Lee has to carry the fact he’s a former Tory wherever he stands and that will negatively affect him. And there’s not exactly many ‘safe’ Lib Dem seats left...

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4 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 


Thanks Rob you saved me typing out an explanation.

 

Mark, on your ballot paper ain’t Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn. It’s the candidate to be the MP for your constituency. I’m not saying this is how it should be, but in the current system it’s how it is. 
 

 

What’s a rewrite? Ever since the referendum the Conservatives have had a hardline remain rebel wing, the hardline Brexit European Research Group, and the rest of the week party supporting party policy. It was always going to be a tightrope act, the party wasn’t hunky dory until Boris and suddenly imploded into dissent.

 

This the issue is, this isn’t a U-turn. Again Philip Lee has always been a Remain MP. It’s not going to take a deep dive to know if you’re dedicated to Brexit, Philip Lee isn’t an ideal MP for you. 
 

And yes, Lib Dem students did feel let down by their party, hence at the next election the Lib Dem’s were totally decimated, as is my point. If Lee does go stand in another constituency, then his current constituents are still free to vote in a new Tory MP. Lee has to carry the fact he’s a former Tory wherever he stands and that will negatively affect him. And there’s not exactly many ‘safe’ Lib Dem seats left...

Finnaldo i understand your point but honestly a lot of people would vote for their chosen party if they had a dog standing in the right colours.  I will readily admit some mps have personal followers not based on party.

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30 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:


I know mate, which is central to my point: it’s vital we either reform the system or educate voters on where exactly their vote is going.
 

Anecdotally, my local MP is Conservative, but above that he’s an absolute cvnt along the lines of Vaz who simply shouldn’t be in office. If I wanted to have him out my best bet is Lib Dems, but the candidate they’v ran the last two elections seems like a slimy, spineless bellend who I imagine isn’t actually all that different. So the last election I voted Labour, not for Corbyn (the candidate himself admitted he wasn’t a supporter of his) but because the bloke standing was a former British Army Captain who from what I can tell seemed true to his values and wanted to listen to his constituents. 
 

What I’m trying to say is: if we want better politicians, we have to hold ourselves accountable for our vote and stand against our own interests if it means ensuring jobworths don’t stay in a gig perpetually.

I agree, I'm in a position where I would never vote for Corbyn but my local Labour MP actually seems to give a shit and is making a positive difference to the area. 

 

I'm therefore much more likely to vote for her depending on who the other candidates are at a GE.

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This is a great tweet, just goes to remind us all we can't really trust a word anyone says.

 

 

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1 minute ago, MattP said:

Well, he's got a deal. Now it's time to see the detail.

 

 

The dup don’t think they can back the deal I’ve read this morning. Let’s hope he can persuade them and the ERG and then we can put this all behind us.

I’m sure both sides will claim victory but we’ve all had to concede a bit to get this through and put an end to the uncertainty.

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1 hour ago, Strokes said:

The dup don’t think they can back the deal I’ve read this morning. Let’s hope he can persuade them and the ERG and then we can put this all behind us.

I’m sure both sides will claim victory but we’ve all had to concede a bit to get this through and put an end to the uncertainty.

I hope to God you're right about that, but I don't think the act of leaving itself will actually cause that - wither for avid Remainers and the kind of Leave voters who will never get the fantasy Brexit they think they were promised.

Edited by Voll Blau

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1 minute ago, Voll Blau said:

I hope to God you're right about that, but I don't think the act of leaving itself will actually cause that - wither for avid Remainers and the kind of Leave voters who will never get the fantasy Brexit they think they were promised.

There will always be extremists that won’t let go, but I genuinely think most of us will just breathe a sigh of relief and move on.

Heres hoping anyway:cheers:

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my initial thoughts are that we are headed for a GE without a deal being passed in the HOC and Boris will be shown to have been very savvy and will likely decimate labour in that GE .........

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How many Labour and Independents do you reckon are needed to get this over the line? 30 odd maybe?

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9 minutes ago, Nalis said:

How many Labour and Independents do you reckon are needed to get this over the line? 30 odd maybe?

Around 20 with the DUP, around 40 without.

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15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Around 20 with the DUP, around 40 without.

With these numbers, there's not much chance of it passing? 

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Huge risk for the DUP.

 

Vote for this it goes through but they'll look ridiculous, vote it down and it's probably a GE where Boris might not need their votes after it.

 

Huge risk for Labour MP's as well, Tories 15 pts clear in latest polls - this might be the best chance you are going to stop a no deal.

 

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Just now, Fktf said:

With these numbers, there's not much chance of it passing? 

Assuming this addresses many if the sovereignty concerns - which they are briefing it does - rejection is a rejection of the referendum result and they can all **** off.

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Just now, MattP said:

Huge risk for the DUP.

 

Vote for this it goes through but they'll look ridiculous, vote it down and it's probably a GE where Boris might not need their votes after it.

 

Huge risk for Labour MP's as well, Tories 15 pts clear in latest polls - this might be the best chance you are going to stop a no deal.

 

Exactly.  Now we find out if they really want a deal or in fact just want to ignore the referendum result regardless. 

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8 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

So remainers ask for compromise, diplomacy and respect and then try to mock the situation when they get it.

If this doesn’t pass, then it’s no deal or remain left to fight for, I strongly suggest people get behind this.

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Time to just vote the bloody thing through now.  In my perfect world Brexit would never happen but no deal is just a shit show waiting to happen.  Get this through and start concentrating on the trading arrangements and domestic policies before we’re all six feet under.

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The sensible choice would be to extend and give time to see this through properly.  If I were part of this decision I would want to scrutinise every word in every sentence of this deal.  Giving until Saturday is not long enough to do this properly.

 

Lay the facts out to the people, make it as clear as day and ask the people if they're happy with it.  A take it or leave it scenario.

 

I do wonder how many of the 17.4 actually voted to be worse off.  All indicators show we will be worse off. 

 

Just tell us how it is, no more BS and red buses.

 

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