Potential Labour government 2nd referendum.

[Mickey O'Neil 318]

4 hours ago, Bob Hazels shorts said:

[...]when he slipped into hokey cokey mode, now he's sitting on the fence.

🤣🤣🤣🤣😊🤣🤣🤣

[Saxondale 1,360]

On 23/11/2019 at 12:44, MattP said:

But as I say, the most grotesque piece of foreign interference went on right in front of our eyes, when Barack Obama stood on a stage and openly tried to influce the result, but again, nobody cared then as they though Remain were going to win.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not getting away with that. Trying to compare one man articulating his opinion to a hostile state staging a sophisticated hybrid war?

 

No.

[murphy 6,771]

On 23/11/2019 at 11:34, SMX11 said:

Why isn't revolt an option? 

We're all revolting already,

[murphy 6,771]

5 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not getting away with that. Trying to compare one man articulating his opinion to a hostile state staging a sophisticated hybrid war?

 

No.

Hmm... Barak 'back of the queue' Obama was a small influence on my decision to vote leave alongside the sight of Cameron grovelling on his European tour and being told to sling his hook again and again.

 

Given the choice between remain or leave in a customs union, I would vote remain.  The latter would be the worst of all worlds.

 

Given a second ref on Boris' deal and remain, I'd prob reluctantly hold my nose and vote remain.  

 

[Jon the Hat 4,354]

On 24/11/2019 at 09:34, Legend_in_blue said:

Taking a neutral stance is a very sensible idea.  Such a shame that this is one of a handful of sensible ideas amongst many poor ones should he get in.

If it is, it might well be the only sensible thing Corbyn has ever done or said.

[Jon the Hat 4,354]

12 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not getting away with that. Trying to compare one man articulating his opinion to a hostile state staging a sophisticated hybrid war?

 

No.

One man?  PUSA?  Pfff.  

[Guest MattP]

17 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not getting away with that. Trying to compare one man articulating his opinion to a hostile state staging a sophisticated hybrid war?

 

No.

Sophisticated hybrid war?

 

It was about 30 Twitter bots.

[leicsmac 4,798]

14 minutes ago, Saxondale said:

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're not getting away with that. Trying to compare one man articulating his opinion to a hostile state staging a sophisticated hybrid war?

 

No.

 

1 minute ago, Jon the Hat said:

One man?  PUSA?  Pfff.  

Yeah, it's a bit more than an average Joe raising their voice about the situation in a pub...but at the same time it's a fair bit different to a dedicated misinformation campaign wielded by state actors unknown - in terms of magnitude of influence and honesty of action.

[leicsmac 4,798]

Just now, MattP said:

Sophisticated hybrid war?

 

It was about 30 Twitter bots.

 

Genuinely curious seeing as so many folks have said so many different things about it.

[whoareyaaa 2,491]

wait a minute have we not already voted to leave the EU? 

 

Politics is broken

[bovril 8,224]

Comparing Obama's and Putin's influence in the Brexit referendum is something of a false equivalence when you consider they certainly had massively different intentions when it comes to the UK, the EU and Western liberal democracy.  I'm baffled why people, in the UK at least, would be as worried about Obama as they are Putin. 

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

Genuinely curious seeing as so many folks have said so many different things about it.

419.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/how-400-russia-run-fake-accounts-posted-bogus-brexit-tweets

 

And I doubt one person seriously had their vote changed from Remain to Leave on the basis of a Tweet.

[bovril 8,224]

Just now, MattP said:

419.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/how-400-russia-run-fake-accounts-posted-bogus-brexit-tweets

 

And I doubt one person seriously had their vote changed from Remain to Leave on the basis of a Tweet.

I seriously doubt nobody changed their mind about a vote in the last few years because of a tweet.

 

You're being quite naive if you think the majority of people in the UK read up on potential consequences of their vote and dismiss unsubstantiated claims they see on social media.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, bovril said:

Comparing Obama's and Putin's influence in the Brexit referendum is something of a false equivalence when you consider they certainly had massively different intentions when it comes to the UK, the EU and Western liberal democracy.  I'm baffled why people, in the UK at least, would be as worried about Obama as they are Putin. 

Missed the point completely, it's about foreign interference, not what the intentions are.

 

Although the US don't want us in the EU for the good of us either, they want it for their own influence, Portillo used to go into this a great deal when talking about his time as defence secretary.

[bovril 8,224]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

Missed the point completely, it's about foreign interference, not what the intentions are.

 

Although the US don't want us in the EU for the good of us either, they want it for their own influence, Portillo used to go into this a great deal when talking about his time as defence secretary.

My point was about the fallacy of comparing two very different situations to support a very general argument about foreign interference, and also that it's natural people are going to be more worried about Russian interference than American. 

I realise the US have their own reasons for us being in the EU, but I am absolutely certain I would still rather live in that reality than one where Russia's geopolitical goals are achieved. 

Edited 26 November 2019 by bovril

[leicsmac 4,798]

9 minutes ago, MattP said:

419.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/14/how-400-russia-run-fake-accounts-posted-bogus-brexit-tweets

 

And I doubt one person seriously had their vote changed from Remain to Leave on the basis of a Tweet.

Thanks. You might be right, but I do tend to take such technological influences on voting systems pretty seriously and I'm somewhat cynical when it comes to the ease of people being led to do things.

 

 

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

Missed the point completely, it's about foreign interference, not what the intentions are.

 

Although the US don't want us in the EU for the good of us either, they want it for their own influence, Portillo used to go into this a great deal when talking about his time as defence secretary.

This is a good point.

 

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

My point was about the fallacy of comparing two very different situations to support a very general argument about foreign interference, and also that it's natural people are going to be more worried about Russian interference than American. 

And so is this.

[FerrisBueller 546]

On the topic of believing what you read on social media, I've seen a few people circulate this monstrosity, without a hint of irony.

[Gordon the Great 222]

On 23/11/2019 at 09:54, MattP said:

I think he probably could. Boris reopened the withdrawal agreement and got it changed in about 90 days.

 

Adding a CU shouldn't be too hard and the EU know this means we remain so they'll be delighted to offer it.

 

I don't think they'll be much need for a long campaign either before it as only a handful of Labour MP's will be on the side of leaving and the rest remaining. 

Hopefully there will only be a handful of Labour M.P.s .full stop!

[bovril 8,224]

Just now, FerrisBueller said:

On the topic of believing what you read on social media, I've seen a few people circulate this monstrosity, without a hint of irony.

Well, it's true. That's happened while we're in the EU. Obviously if you lacked critical thinking skills you'd think the two were lin...

 

Oh. 

[Sol thewall Bamba 8,033]

Oh goodie, another vote! 

[James. 763]

I simply can't abide Currpt mps

[Alf Bentley 10,952]

59 minutes ago, FerrisBueller said:

On the topic of believing what you read on social media, I've seen a few people circulate this monstrosity, without a hint of irony.

 

 

To be fair, that's a pretty strong set of arguments against Thatcherism, er, I mean the EU.....

 

Not sure why they have a problem with franking, though. It's an important part of the postal service, that.

 

And what's that about "currpt MPs"? Has their software been corrupted or is that when MPs spill curry on their carpets?

[TiffToff88 2,548]

On 23/11/2019 at 11:34, SMX11 said:

Why isn't revolt an option? 

This whole Brexit mess is revolting. No vote necessary for that!

[Leicester_Loyal 5,342]

I can't keep up with all these votes!

[Finnaldo 3,188]

Here we are again, albeit in another thread, and the ‘2nd ref = anti-democracy’ gang are comparing an allied country being transparent on their foreign policy towards us to a subversion campaign from an authoritarian state.

 

Please, please, please give your head a shake if you think the administration of a massive trading partner informing us clearly that they’d prioritise the EU over us in event of Brexit, also known as transparent foreign policy, is in anyway comparable to a country known as an active threat to us using actors online to sway public opinion with totally false information.