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StriderHiryu

Tactics Talk: The 442 Diamond

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1 minute ago, Nicolo Barella said:

It was a long time coming! Incredible how complete Iheanacho has looked in the 90 minutes or so he's featured in it.

Absolutely! As mentioned above for me his form is why this system is even plausible to select in the first place. Barnes has played up top with Vardy the other times we have tried it and in theory Perez could play it also. But Nacho is another clinical finisher who comes alive in the 18 yard box, perfect for a system like this. His link up play in his last two games was also magnificent. His assist to Vardy today and he also put in a great cross for Vardy to strike it before that too.

 

I said at the beginning of the season I could see us using this system to beat team that park the bus, and whilst Villa didn't do that all today, I still think it can be deployed as such if needed.

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8 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Absolutely! As mentioned above for me his form is why this system is even plausible to select in the first place. Barnes has played up top with Vardy the other times we have tried it and in theory Perez could play it also. But Nacho is another clinical finisher who comes alive in the 18 yard box, perfect for a system like this. His link up play in his last two games was also magnificent. His assist to Vardy today and he also put in a great cross for Vardy to strike it before that too.

 

I said at the beginning of the season I could see us using this system to beat team that park the bus, and whilst Villa didn't do that all today, I still think it can be deployed as such if needed.

Would love to see this, but with Barnes over Tielemans and Maddison deeper. At least once, against some defensive team.

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Firstly it's great see us use different formations. Mainly because it will make it difficult for opposition managers to know what we're doing.

But the truth is great players don't need formations. They know what to do be it in attack or defense. 

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Everyone else: Leicester are just a counter attacking side... 

 

Brendan Rodgers: Flexes 433, 4141, 4231, 352 and 442D. 

 

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3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

YES! He was superb, and demonstrated a full range of all of his talents. Drifting between the lines, turning on a sixpence to receive the ball, playing deadly through balls with both feet. Only thing that let him down was a poor finish (given he's been right at it recently) when he had the goal gaping, and he messed up a through ball in the first half too that would have put Vardy in again. But he truly excelled in that position today. Gareth Southgate should be taking notes on that performance. England for the last 40+ years have struggled at international level because they can't break down other top international teams. Maddison is the closest thing we will ever have to a Zidane. Obviously he's not on that level (yet) but I'd argue that creatively he's matching David Silva this season, and David Silva even at his current age would walk into our England team.

 

I have an FA Level 2, same as Foxhateram and some others I believe. But that's pretty timid stuff, FA Level 3 / UEFA B is where it gets serious. Would love to take it to the next level, but don't have the time and don't think I will have the time for another ten years! But hey Sarri at Juventus didn't start coaching until he was 45! So I expect to lead out the foxes for the 2035 season after taking over from Schmeichel and Morgan's successful stint that brought us two European Cup wins. Urban Spaceman will be head of media and Ric Flair Head of Scouting. Other positions still to be filled!

 

You can't downplay how good this manager is tactically. In fact it's surprised me a lot as I thought at Celtic he had a reputation for being stubborn which led to scorelines like 7-0 against Barcelona, etc. I knew his individual coaching skill was among the very best, but tactically he has surprised us all in a brilliant way. He's also shown himself to be much more willing to change than Puel who used 4231, then 433 with 3 CDMs against big teams and then right at the end 4141 like we play now. Rodgers has changed games on their head by changing tactics midway through a match, and today setup a team in a different way to outclass an opponent.

 

I will be very interested to see how we play at Man City coming up because both Wolves and Man United beat them comfortably playing a sit and soak counter attack, and we also beat them at home under Puel who played a deep 433 with three defensive midfielders. But I also feel like their defence is their to be got at no matter which system we play. So will he go for it, or will he be conservative? There's arguments both ways!

Not downplaying at all. Just a counter to the fact that we're still famous for direct balls over the top to Vardy. I mean we still can... 4th goal shows that. But for those that don't actually watch us, they have no idea. But the same was said about the title winning side tbh. No one that commented about how we couldn't keep it up had watched more than 10 minutes of highlights. We're 90+ minutes worth of relentless aggression. 

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Great stuff @StriderHiryu

 

Sums up nicely the tactical flexibility of the side.

 

Funny that you mention not employing the diamond against Liverpool due to the obvious threats of TAA and Robertson. Emery tried it against them early in the season and they were cut apart. 

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2 minutes ago, cstrafe said:

Great stuff @StriderHiryu

 

Sums up nicely the tactical flexibility of the side.

 

Funny that you mention not employing the diamond against Liverpool due to the obvious threats of TAA and Robertson. Emery tried it against them early in the season and they were cut apart. 

That was an interesting game tactically because no one expected that lineup. In fact after the game I think Klopp even started joking that he couldn't believe that someone would play with just one fullback either side to deal with Mane / Salah / TAA / Robertson. I think he even said something like "I kept thinking are these guys geniuses or crazy!" What is crazier though is that almost did work! Pepe I think had two one on one opportunities but didn't take them. Had they taken both, maybe they would have got something. In the end, at halftime, Klopp instructed his team how to deal with the formation and then they ripped them to pieces.

 

I almost think that as a one off shock tactic that could work against them if it's switched midway through the game. But I wouldn't do it as it's too risky! I'd also say that when Leicester start with Praet, Tielemans AND Maddison it means something's up. With Arsenal their lineup meant that they could disguise their setup.

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25 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

I have an FA Level 2, same as Foxhateram and some others I believe. But that's pretty timid stuff, FA Level 3 / UEFA B is where it gets serious. Would love to take it to the next level, but don't have the time and don't think I will have the time for another ten years! But hey Sarri at Juventus didn't start coaching until he was 45! So I expect to lead out the foxes for the 2035 season after taking over from Schmeichel and Morgan's successful stint that brought us two European Cup wins. Urban Spaceman will be head of media and Ric Flair Head of Scouting. Other positions still to be filled!

This would be great to see. I especially like the idea of the management team being known by their foxestalk usernames and nothing else.

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15 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Brendan said he played it to get two strikers against their two centre backs ... because their full backs get forward so much 

And look how much time and space Ihenacho had to play that beautiful through ball to Vardy for 1-0! Fullbacks were literally nowhere in sight as Vardy stuck it away despite fluffing the original shot.

 

Brendan knows what he's doing! :brendan:

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Great post, Strider.  Please phone 606 and take Savage down.

 

I too have FA Level 2 but am bowled over by your analysis.  I used it to help kids enjoy their game more and did not take it to your level.  

 

Outside of the tactical analysis, I would like to make another poi t about Rodgers skills.  He has seven defenders, five midfielders, two centre forwards and four wide men match ready through his minimal rotation of a largely settled side.  The latest two to be honed are Justin and Ienacho.  Just as we come to the busiest period of the season.

 

I hope you continue to find time to  supply posts of this quality

Edited by majaco
Open to misinterpretation
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Just now, StriderHiryu said:

And look how much time and space Ihenacho had to play that beautiful through ball to Vardy for 1-0! Fullbacks were literally nowhere in sight as Vardy stuck it away despite fluffing the original shot.

 

Brendan knows what he's doing! :brendan:

Quite high risk to have 2 v 2 up top away from home and it left Ricardo exposed against Grealish and targett ....... maybe he figured we would win a ‘game of basketball’ there .....

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4 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Quite high risk to have 2 v 2 up top away from home and it left Ricardo exposed against Grealish and targett ....... maybe he figured we would win a ‘game of basketball’ there .....

Again, superb analysis! Come join me for the Foxes Talk post-match highlights show! Do you know how to use a giant iPad? lol

 

I was saying in the match thread at half time that we looked really good going forwards but that our usual "control" of the game suffered, and that it felt for large periods like a 5 a side game. Made for fantastic viewing but very chaotic. Look also at Liverpool under Rodgers, 101 goals scored, 50 conceded, so they played that basketball style for that season.

 

At the end of the day, we have Jamie Vardy and they have Wesley. And our clinical finishing was always going to be the difference even though we missed probably another 3 or 4 sure fire chances. Winning in a chaotic manner is as good as winning it comfortably in terms of points gained, and we only conceded one goal which could easily have been dealt with better than it was. So once again I think Rodgers made the right call. This game also gave valuable minutes to Praet and Nacho, who both played very well. Both players can now feel like important players at the club, and have shown the manager what they can do. Man management is something Puel struggled with, so this in itself can be great so see.

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3 minutes ago, StriderHiryu said:

Again, superb analysis! Come join me for the Foxes Talk post-match highlights show! Do you know how to use a giant iPad? lol

 

I was saying in the match thread at half time that we looked really good going forwards but that our usual "control" of the game suffered, and that it felt for large periods like a 5 a side game. Made for fantastic viewing but very chaotic. Look also at Liverpool under Rodgers, 101 goals scored, 50 conceded, so they played that basketball style for that season.

 

At the end of the day, we have Jamie Vardy and they have Wesley. And our clinical finishing was always going to be the difference even though we missed probably another 3 or 4 sure fire chances. Winning in a chaotic manner is as good as winning it comfortably in terms of points gained, and we only conceded one goal which could easily have been dealt with better than it was. So once again I think Rodgers made the right call. This game also gave valuable minutes to Praet and Nacho, who both played very well. Both players can now feel like important players at the club, and have shown the manager what they can do. Man management is something Puel struggled with, so this in itself can be great so see.

Someone's after Statman Dave's job lol

 

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3 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Still waiting for Rodgers to go 4-1-2-1-2 Diamond. My most favourite formation.

Great on the counter.

Errr :teehee:

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2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Errr :teehee:

Not the same as today. The 4-1-2-1-2 relies on two wingers or outfield midfielders, rather than four typical central midfielders.

Look at it as another variation.

 

I know we shifted to this formation in the latter stages, but we didn't start with it. That's my point.

Edited by MC Prussian

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Excellent mate. Loving the changes in system we're seeing. In the last few games we've seen 4141, 442D, 352 and 4231. Regardless of the system, we're always so fluid.

442D with the two midfielders splitting to provide options for the full backs is very nice.

Great from the coaches, they're doing amazing work.

Edited by Beechey

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