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9 hours ago, Bilo said:

The new Blue Wall is built on sand. 

 

The two reasons the Tories won - Brexit and Corbyn- won't be vote winners in 2024, and the government hasn't exactly exuded competence thus far.

Exactly this. The 'Red Wall' seats only voted Blue this time around because they want Brexit, they are unbelievably desperate for it. They won't be voting Conservative in 5 years time because the issue of Brexit will be put to bed, in many of these places it was a one time deal.

 

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12 minutes ago, Dames said:

Exactly this. The 'Red Wall' seats only voted Blue this time around because they want Brexit, they are unbelievably desperate for it. They won't be voting Conservative in 5 years time because the issue of Brexit will be put to bed, in many of these places it was a one time deal.

I think this is so naive, Brexit has become more than just leaving the EU, its become a cultural position of many beliefs.

 

The idea these people are just going to run back to Labour isn't going to happen if the Labour party doesn't change. The politicians who think that are the same idiots who thought all the leave voters would turn on Boris if they just dragged him past October 31st and we saw how that went. 

 

Even more so if Boris and Cummings do start repatriating wealth to the Midlands and North.

 

If Starmer is the next leader the Tory campaign  of "he didn't respect your vote" starts immediately and Boris won't let him forget it every week.

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Whatever Labour do, whether they have a fighting chance  at the next election all depends on what the Tories do 

 

Boris and co would have to fvck up big time to put Labour in with a sniff 

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Jess Phillips confirms herself as running. The Sky News FB post on this story has 330 reactions and 220 of them are the lol emoji lol

 

The public love a victim obsessed, gobby woman, said absolutely no one ever.

 

Whilst its important they get the right person it's also important this contest doesn't turn into a joke - watching Lavery and Jess go at it could be pretty hilarious.

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22 minutes ago, MattP said:

Jess Phillips confirms herself as running. The Sky News FB post on this story has 330 reactions and 220 of them are the lol emoji lol

 

The public love a victim obsessed, gobby woman, said absolutely no one ever.

 

Whilst its important they get the right person it's also important this contest doesn't turn into a joke - watching Lavery and Jess go at it could be pretty hilarious.

 

There are obvious risks to choosing someone as outspoken as Jess Phillips and she'd certainly alienate some - but others like someone who comes across to them as honest and straight-speaking.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a poll - with the public, not Labour members - had her as 1 of only 2 candidates who had a positive opinion rating overall (Clive Lewis the other).

 

It could go badly wrong with Phillips' "straight speaking" - and I'm not yet convinced she has the overall command of policy or leadership skills required - but she's probably more Marmite, not as beyond the pale as you think.

 

Lavery would be a nightmare, though. A Lavery-Burgeon "dream team"? I'd emigrate!

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50 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

There are obvious risks to choosing someone as outspoken as Jess Phillips and she'd certainly alienate some - but others like someone who comes across to them as honest and straight-speaking.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a poll - with the public, not Labour members - had her as 1 of only 2 candidates who had a positive opinion rating overall (Clive Lewis the other).

 

It could go badly wrong with Phillips' "straight speaking" - and I'm not yet convinced she has the overall command of policy or leadership skills required - but she's probably more Marmite, not as beyond the pale as you think.

 

Lavery would be a nightmare, though. A Lavery-Burgeon "dream team"? I'd emigrate!

lol Whatever happens I don't want to see the end of Burgon, arguably the funniest man in politics.

 

I had no idea Phillips had a favourable rating but I'd imagine that's a very small sample and I doubt much of the public will know who she is yet

 

The biggest problem with Phillips though isn't that she's outspoken, its just that she isn't very bright. Her grasp of economics and foreign affairs would make Corbyn look like Kissinger.

 

Just nothing about her screams leadership at all. I think she only popular in Westminster because that's what they view as someone who is working class.

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26 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

I had no idea Phillips had a favourable rating but I'd imagine that's a very small sample and I doubt much of the public will know who she is yet

 

 

Here are the ratings I was referring to. The figures in brackets show % of people who've heard of them, according to YouGov data. Doesn't say what sample size was.

So, 33% have heard of Phillips (more than Long-Bailey & almost as many as Starmer - she has a high media profile, I suppose).

 

Now the net favourability of each Starmer -4 (41% have heard of him) Long-Bailey -2 (24%) Phillips +2 (33%) Cooper -5 (65%) Lewis +5 (27%) Thornberry -8 (44%) Nandy +2 (19%)

 

I hadn't noticed that Nandy also has a slightly positive favourability rating (but low recognition)

 

Here's a decent Nandy article from New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/12/johnson-doesnt-get-britain-he-won-labour-must-now-show-it-does

"When we set up the Centre for Towns three years ago, we had felt the tremors under our feet in those Labour heartlands. After four decades of underinvestment, there was a drumbeat of concern for the lost bus networks, decaying high streets, and young people who had to leave home to find good work. A political system that shrugged its shoulders when people spilled their hearts out was already in serious trouble".

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15 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Here are the ratings I was referring to. The figures in brackets show % of people who've heard of them, according to YouGov data. Doesn't say what sample size was.

So, 33% have heard of Phillips (more than Long-Bailey & almost as many as Starmer - she has a high media profile, I suppose).

 

Now the net favourability of each Starmer -4 (41% have heard of him) Long-Bailey -2 (24%) Phillips +2 (33%) Cooper -5 (65%) Lewis +5 (27%) Thornberry -8 (44%) Nandy +2 (19%)

 

I hadn't noticed that Nandy also has a slightly positive favourability rating (but low recognition)

 

Here's a decent Nandy article from New Statesman: https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2019/12/johnson-doesnt-get-britain-he-won-labour-must-now-show-it-does

"When we set up the Centre for Towns three years ago, we had felt the tremors under our feet in those Labour heartlands. After four decades of underinvestment, there was a drumbeat of concern for the lost bus networks, decaying high streets, and young people who had to leave home to find good work. A political system that shrugged its shoulders when people spilled their hearts out was already in serious trouble".

Not great ratings are they? Only Cooper worse than Starmer although they've all got fantastic ratings compared to Corbyn.

 

I can't believe people like Thornberry are considering it, they just have to be totally deluded to think that's what the country wants.

 

More I look at it Nandy looks the best shout electorally.

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15 minutes ago, MattP said:

Not great ratings are they? Only Cooper worse than Starmer although they've all got fantastic ratings compared to Corbyn.

 

I can't believe people like Thornberry are considering it, they just have to be totally deluded to think that's what the country wants.

 

More I look at it Nandy looks the best shout electorally.

 

Not brilliant ratings, though a lot of them are barely known to most voters - and most politicians have poor ratings.

Boris had negative ratings last time I noticed, but that didn't stop him winning....albeit against the most unpopular opponent in history!

 

No, I can't imagine Thornberry being a good choice. A senior shadow cabinet post, maybe, but not leader, likewise Cooper. I suspect that's where I'll end up with Phillips, too.

 

I'm undecided but mainly interested in hearing from Nandy, Lewis & Starmer at the moment.

Lavery & Burgon can get straight in the bin along with any Corbyn Continuity candidate (Long-Bailey?). I'd definitely favour Angela Rayner over Burgon for Deputy, if that's the choice on offer.

 

Some of these potential candidates won't get all the nominations they need, though, or will withdraw due to lack of support - some might be just raising their profiles to get good shadow cabinet posts.

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4 hours ago, MattP said:

I think this is so naive, Brexit has become more than just leaving the EU, its become a cultural position of many beliefs.

 

The idea these people are just going to run back to Labour isn't going to happen if the Labour party doesn't change. The politicians who think that are the same idiots who thought all the leave voters would turn on Boris if they just dragged him past October 31st and we saw how that went. 

 

Even more so if Boris and Cummings do start repatriating wealth to the Midlands and North.

 

If Starmer is the next leader the Tory campaign  of "he didn't respect your vote" starts immediately and Boris won't let him forget it every week.

They won't run back to Labour instead they will just stop voting.

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Good article here

 

id be happy enough with either Nandy or Phillips,  but, depressingly momentum will most likely get behind Long Bailey and labour will continue to lack relevance…

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/03/lisa-nandy-enters-labour-leadership-race-with-call-for-change?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_WhatsApp

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20 hours ago, Dames said:

They won't run back to Labour instead they will just stop voting.

I think your wrong not on tge fact that they wont run back to labour in the fact that they will stop voting. They will pluml for the best of the bunch. The loyalty is what labour have lost i will be voting next time for the one i consider to be tge best at the time. I think Corbyns labour have broken the blind voting for red or blue. Perhaps he has done the nation a favour and we will get away of oeople voting on ghe basis that that is hiw they have always voted.

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On 03/01/2020 at 14:46, twoleftfeet said:

Dianne Abbot would get my vote

I am sure you are only joking!!!

Diane Abbott, who I met twice, a long time ago when she was not quite so fat, is an appalling person and a worse politician.

Promoted way beyond her ability and she is now at an age and state of health where she should gracefully retire.

A sort of political version of Junior Lewis, completely out of his depth in the Premier League.

But no worse than quite a number of Tory nonentities like Anna Soubry, Chris Grayling and Ian Something Smith.

However the two left feet picture during the election was a Tory lie.

I have seen a hi-res version of the notorious two left feet photo in the Daily Mail.

One of the shoes has a very un-natural and oddly pixellated area around it and it screams mile wide Photoshop fake.

If you don't believe me next time you go out try putting on two left shoes. Your feet are extremely unsymmetrical and it is well-nigh impossible to put a shoe on the wrong foot!!!

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1 hour ago, The Fox Covert said:

I am sure you are only joking!!!

Diane Abbott, who I met twice, a long time ago when she was not quite so fat, is an appalling person and a worse politician.

Promoted way beyond her ability and she is now at an age and state of health where she should gracefully retire.

A sort of political version of Junior Lewis, completely out of his depth in the Premier League.

But no worse than quite a number of Tory nonentities like Anna Soubry, Chris Grayling and Ian Something Smith.

However the two left feet picture during the election was a Tory lie.

I have seen a hi-res version of the notorious two left feet photo in the Daily Mail.

One of the shoes has a very un-natural and oddly pixellated area around it and it screams mile wide Photoshop fake.

If you don't believe me next time you go out try putting on two left shoes. Your feet are extremely unsymmetrical and it is well-nigh impossible to put a shoe on the wrong foot!!!

Behave there were several different photos of it, the lie was that it was photoshopped.

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Starmer is the only one I could actually see as Prime Minister.

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Jess Phillips says she would not rule out rejoining the EU. Has she effectively ruled herself out of a serious challenge? Any Labour leader must move on from the Brexit debate (as Starmer has done). To reconnect with the electorate in the North and parts of the Midlands, Labour must accept the Referendum result. Phillips could have done that, but unlikely now.

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On 03/01/2020 at 12:33, Alf Bentley said:

 

There are obvious risks to choosing someone as outspoken as Jess Phillips and she'd certainly alienate some - but others like someone who comes across to them as honest and straight-speaking.

 

As I mentioned earlier, a poll - with the public, not Labour members - had her as 1 of only 2 candidates who had a positive opinion rating overall (Clive Lewis the other).

 

It could go badly wrong with Phillips' "straight speaking" - and I'm not yet convinced she has the overall command of policy or leadership skills required - but she's probably more Marmite, not as beyond the pale as you think.

 

Lavery would be a nightmare, though. A Lavery-Burgeon "dream team"? I'd emigrate!

She speaks her mind, however I’m not sure I could imagine her as a future PM.

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Have to say Starmer did look capable and Prime Ministerial on Marr - he is so wooden though.

 

Phillips on the other hand lol

 

She's just so false in every way, a victim when she isn't, "straight talking" despite never answering a question, working class despite not being. The clamour around her in SW1 and the broadsheet press is weird.

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