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Just now, Lionator said:

I actually really like Angela Rayner, but she’s already been beaten with sticks about her leaving school at 16 and being a grandma at 40. The press would have a field day.

That's exactly what Labour need to win most of the seats they lost yesterday back (particularly the press attacking her for it).

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1 hour ago, AKCJ said:

I like Starmer but is a posh London remainer the person who will reclaim the Labour backing from the North? Nice bloke and a good politician but not the one to reclaim Labour seats IMO.

I too thought Keir Starmer was a posh public schoolboy who for some reason joined the Labour party. In fact his origins are more humble than any Labour leader since the emergence of the party with Keir Hardie (after who Starmer was named) and Ramsay MacDonald. Not a middle class son of a clergyman like Corbyn or Brown, not upper middle class like Blair, Foot or Clement Attlee. 

Nevertheless urbane, honest and extremely articulate he would be my choice to win back Middle England. Either him or Jess Phillips.

Don't know what has happened to Liz Kendall but she would be another good shout if she would actually come out from wherever she has been hiding. There will be plenty of opportunities in the next few months when the reality of Bozo in power starts to set in and people realise that Brexit will not suddenly drop off the radar on 31 January. It will be in the news for at least the another year while Brussels tries to push this Tory government into a trade deal that keeps the economies of most of Europe on track and doesn't drop this country off the edge of a cliff.

Edited by The Fox Covert

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4 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

WTF “after a period of reflection”

 

He’s more clingy than a dangleberry 

He just can't make decisions as he's just a puppet.

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42 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

They had a royal shake up when they re-invented themselves as New labour, and eventually everyone realised they were just a reincarnation of the tory party.

They probably need to look at the definition of reform then.....

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20 minutes ago, The Fox Covert said:

I too thought Keir Starmer was a posh public schoolboy who for some reason joined the Labour party. In fact his origins are more humble than any Labour leader since the emergence of the party with Keir Hardie (after who Starmer was named) and Ramsay MacDonald. Not a middle class son of a clergyman like Corbyn or Brown, not upper middle class like Blair, Foot or Clement Attlee. 

Nevertheless urbane, honest and extremely articulate he would be my choice to win back Middle England. Either him or Jess Phillips.

Don't know what has happened to Liz Kendall but she would be another good shout if she would actually come out from wherever she has been hiding. There will be plenty of opportunities in the next few months when the reality of Bozo in power starts to set in and people realise that Brexit will not suddenly drop off the radar on 31 January. It will be in the news for at least the another year while Brussels tries to push this Tory government into a trade deal that keeps the economies of most of Europe on track and doesn't drop this country off the edge of a cliff.

Ultimately doesn't matter who someone really is. He looks like a posh Londoner so that's what a large proportion of voters will call him.

 

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5 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Corbyn needs to go ASAP. Anything less suggests to the electorate that their rejection of Labour under his leadership is not being taken seriously.

 

Presumably the NEC would need to appoint a caretaker, as Labour doesn't have a Deputy Leader after Watson stood down.

That could be McDonnell, on the strict understanding that he wasn't going to be a leadership candidate.

 

That would then allow for proper analysis of the causes of this disastrous defeat - and a leadership contest, which would take a few months and would involve a membership vote.

 

I think Labour should certainly not pursue "Corbynism without Corbyn", but nor should it simply seek to go centrist.....though the membership wouldn't allow that, anyway.

 

They/we need to bridge the gap: have a leader who is relatable among lost voters, credible to potential voters & who doesn't have Corbyn's baggage.

 

Brexit is now going to happen. I think that a combination of the economic impact of Brexit & the likely policies of this majority Tory Govt in the long-term will mean that in 5 years the country will be a mess, even more divided & with a lot of angry people. Moderate, sensible centrism isn't the correct response to that.....the party will need to have some radical responses, but a limited number of credible radical responses, not a shopping list of everything we'd like in a utopian world as per Corbyn.

Brexit happening is probably best for Labour. In 5 years we’ll know if it’s looking like a success or not and it won’t be to the top of people’s agenda’s. They certainly need to break away from Corbyn and radical socialism. The image is toxic and even though I believe he comes from a good place, the wider electorate for a whole multitude of reasons doesn’t. 

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Whoever it is needs to accept that millennial thinking London isn’t relevant in a general election, they need to be in touch with the majority, on the right.

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4 minutes ago, Lionator said:

Brexit happening is probably best for Labour. In 5 years we’ll know if it’s looking like a success or not and it won’t be to the top of people’s agenda’s. They certainly need to break away from Corbyn and radical socialism. The image is toxic and even though I believe he comes from a good place, the wider electorate for a whole multitude of reasons doesn’t. 

 

Yes, Brexit won't be the issue in 2024 that it was in 2019.....but the impacts of Brexit might well be, whether they are perceived as caused by Brexit or not. Maybe I'll be wrong and all will be hunky dory, but I'm expecting this country to be in a truly awful state, economically and socially, as a result of the combination of Brexit and 5 years of Tory Govt.

 

I agree that a great raft of ideologically left-wing policies, like the 2019 manifesto, seen as lacking credibility, is not the way forward. But the response to a disastrous mess shouldn't be just centrist moderation either.

 

Policies need to be limited and credible, but some of them will need to be quite radical, I think. Voters in deindustrialised areas have been getting ever more disillusioned with life, with successive govts and with Labour for years. They didn't turn to Brexit in the "Labour heartlands" and turn against Labour just in search of moderate centrism. I think they want life to change.

 

All the ideological stuff needs to go, likewise the commitments to mass nationalisations, to massive spending increases on everything & to trendy foreign causes.

But a limited, credible programme of radical reform could be essential, I think: e.g. economic investment in infrastructure & to stimulate the creation of quality jobs, decent public services (without over-promising), a bold housing policy.

I'm not sure something like "Blair Revisited" will win support in 2024......but God knows what this country will be like by then.

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Will be interesting to see what happens within the Labour party, I hope they can come forward with a credible leader and be a proper opposition. Corbyn wasn't a good leader (he never wanted to lead in the first place) but his manifesto wasn't as unpopular as people might think. 

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Any thoughts on who should be the Lib Dem leader now, @LiberalFox

 

Or what political platform the LDs should now focus on, having been so closely associated with the Remain cause?

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Looking at the leading possibilities:

 

Starmer - seems the best option to me but even then it feels like if he's the answer then the question is wrong

 

Thornberry - her speech last night should be enough to rule her out, nothing would be learnt and we already know her views on white van men

RLB - it maybe that she can be Corbyn without the baggage, potential is there but is it the right time? 

 

Rayner - full respect for her and where she's got to from leaving school with nothing. However, I feel the ability to form proper grammatical sentences and get not get basic words wrong is a pre-requisite to being PM

 

Phillips - best off on the backbenchers where her 'angry drunk woman at pub closing time' act sometimes works

 

 

Still at least they've got some options, unlike the Lib Dems. 

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22 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Any thoughts on who should be the Lib Dem leader now, @LiberalFox

 

Or what political platform the LDs should now focus on, having been so closely associated with the Remain cause?

 

This'll sound bonkers but I feel there's a Populist window for the Lib Dems to fill.

 

Full weed legalisation, drug decriminalisation campaign, funding youth centres and prison reform. Alleviating policing budgets and using tax money  derived from weed sales to finance the NHS properly.

 

Brexit is inevitable now, fvck it off, burn it down and start from scratch. Centrism is the flavour nowadays, go bombastic on the 'sensible revolution'. Patel is a functional sociopath and her law and order campaign will worsen crime before it improves it. Lib Dems are on thin ice and they need to go big or go home, target the weaknesses in the Tory Government.

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Clive Lewis or Starmer.

 

Shame Labour have lost some good MPs becoming Mayors like Dan Jarvis and Burnham

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5 hours ago, Bellend Sebastian said:

Jess Phillips, because she's a normal person, passionate but not weird

I really, really hope they don't go for Jess Phillips. She's a good MP but she isn't tactful, is very brash and would alienate a large amount of people that Labour need to appeal to.

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56 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Looking at the leading possibilities:

 

Starmer - seems the best option to me but even then it feels like if he's the answer then the question is wrong

 

Thornberry - her speech last night should be enough to rule her out, nothing would be learnt and we already know her views on white van men

RLB - it maybe that she can be Corbyn without the baggage, potential is there but is it the right time? 

 

Rayner - full respect for her and where she's got to from leaving school with nothing. However, I feel the ability to form proper grammatical sentences and get not get basic words wrong is a pre-requisite to being PM

 

Phillips - best off on the backbenchers where her 'angry drunk woman at pub closing time' act sometimes works

 

 

Still at least they've got some options, unlike the Lib Dems. 

I see what you did there 

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3 hours ago, AKCJ said:

I like Starmer but is a posh London remainer the person who will reclaim the Labour backing from the North? Nice bloke and a good politician but not the one to reclaim Labour seats IMO.

We will have left the EU so why would it matter whether you were a remainer of leaver?

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50 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

This'll sound bonkers but I feel there's a Populist window for the Lib Dems to fill.

 

Full weed legalisation, drug decriminalisation campaign, funding youth centres and prison reform. Alleviating policing budgets and using tax money  derived from weed sales to finance the NHS properly.

 

Brexit is inevitable now, fvck it off, burn it down and start from scratch. Centrism is the flavour nowadays, go bombastic on the 'sensible revolution'. Patel is a functional sociopath and her law and order campaign will worsen crime before it improves it. Lib Dems are on thin ice and they need to go big or go home, target the weaknesses in the Tory Government.

Not sure how you marry that lot up with "centrism".

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