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44 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

What is it with labours obsession with tuition fees? Votes from the young? who haven't spotted it was labours way of kicking the cost down the road for 30 years .  

 

Plenty of countries have free tuition fees though? Scotland included! It's hardly radical. 

 

That's not to say i support free tuition for EVERY subject. Nobody should be getting free money to study drama or art. But it would certainly help if there was free tuition fees for STEM degrees where there is a high demand for these students once they finish uni. 

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2 hours ago, Christoph said:

 

Plenty of countries have free tuition fees though? Scotland included! It's hardly radical. 

 

That's not to say i support free tuition for EVERY subject. Nobody should be getting free money to study drama or art. But it would certainly help if there was free tuition fees for STEM degrees where there is a high demand for these students once they finish uni. 

I've always agreed with this. I've always been pro subsidised tuition for things like STEM, medicine, nursing or more modern stuff thats going to drive the future economy like computer networking or data analysis.

 

But people wanting free tuition to dick around for 3 years to do a photography or film studies degree are taking the piss out the tax payer - nothing wrong with doing that, but those kinds of things can be learnt online or in evening classes these days.

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17 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Lisa Nandy starts the Newsnight thing by saying the public didn't believe that Labour could deliver everything they promised like abolishing tuition fees and nationalising stuff. Lisa Nandy proceeds to raise her hand to say that abolishing tuition fees and nationalising utilities would be in her manifesto. And yet she's the one that's supposed to have her head screwed on. 

I don't think there is any "hype" around her - to me she is just the best of an extremely poor field based on the fact at least 5% of her appears to be in the realm of being a normal person. She's in a tough position of trying to appeal strong to the country whilst also appealing to a membership full of people like Paul Mason and Ash Sarkar.

 

Starmer appears to have given up on trying to balance the two and RBL never intended to do that.

 

The more I see of Starmer the worse I think he is, nothing likeable and I don't think he's actually even that good, his only major contribution to Labour so far appears to be moving to Brexit position from one of ambiguity to complete electoral disaster - five minutes listening to him and you can see he's spent more time in Islington than Ed Miliband.

 

If I was a Labour member I'd probably leave my 2nd preference blank.

 

16 hours ago, Guesty said:

Watching the Labour hustings on Newsnight. I much prefer these debates without an audience. Less playing to the crowd and petty point scoring. 

Definitely, it makes for a such a better debate and it also doesn't make any attempt to influence the opinion of the viewer.

 

I would love them to carry this forward to a General Election. 

 

6 hours ago, twoleftfeet said:

What is it with labours obsession with tuition fees? Votes from the young? who haven't spotted it was labours way of kicking the cost down the road for 30 years.

A bung to the young middle classes basically, which many of the electorate have rumbled them on.

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Did every constituency near Liverpool go for a Long-Bailey and Burgon or Butler combination? lol
Edited by MattP
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1 hour ago, MattP said:
Did every constituency near Liverpool go for a Long-Bailey and Burgon or Butler combination? lol

 

Was always the No. 1 hotbed for the Militant Tendency back in the 80s.......the ghostly influence of Degsy Hatton lives....

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21 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Was always the No. 1 hotbed for the Militant Tendency back in the 80s.......the ghostly influence of Degsy Hatton lives....

There's a decent podcast documentary series about that era out at the moment called The Brink.

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Lisa Nandy has won the backing of the Jewish Labour Movement in her bid for the Labour leadership after a heated campaign hustings.

The endorsement comes after an event on Thursday at which all four candidates apologised to Jewish members over the party's handling of anti-Semitism.

The Wigan MP said she was "honoured" to get the affiliate groups's official nomination.

She received 51% of members' votes, with Sir Keir Starmer second on 45%.

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry and shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey received 1.9% and 1.4% of members' votes respectively.

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BBC

Emily Thornberry has been eliminated from the Labour leadership race after failing to secure enough nominations.

At the midnight Friday deadline, the shadow foreign secretary had 31 nominations from local constituency parties - two short of the 33 needed.

She did not get any nominations from Labour Party affiliates - the other route on to the ballot paper.

It leaves Sir Keir Starmer, Rebecca Long-Bailey and Lisa Nandy in the running to succeed Jeremy Corbyn.

All three had already qualified with the support of unions and affiliate groups.

Ms Thornberry tweeted that it was a "shame to miss out on the rest of the race, but good luck to the three superb remaining candidates".

She said she and her campaign team "gave it everything".

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I would genuinely pick RLB over this bloke. Policy disaster and the charisma of a dog poo on the pavement. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, MattP said:

I would genuinely pick RLB over this bloke. Policy disaster and the charisma of a dog poo on the pavement. 

 

 

I thought he came across quite well. Obviously you are not going to see him on a zip wire

or driving a forklift truck through plastic bricks, but that’s not what I want from a leader.

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On 14/02/2020 at 14:54, davieG said:

Lisa Nandy has won the backing of the Jewish Labour Movement in her bid for the Labour leadership after a heated campaign hustings.

The endorsement comes after an event on Thursday at which all four candidates apologised to Jewish members over the party's handling of anti-Semitism.

The Wigan MP said she was "honoured" to get the affiliate groups's official nomination.

She received 51% of members' votes, with Sir Keir Starmer second on 45%.

Shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry and shadow business secretary Rebecca Long-Bailey received 1.9% and 1.4% of members' votes respectively.

 The  same  Lisa Nandy who is the chair of labour friends of Palestine ........ that’s a bit awks for many of the Labour Party anti semites ....

 

oh, and burgeon is surely up there for the award of the most obnoxious sycophant in the history of politics ???

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From what I've seen I still would not vote for any of them, the interviews basically show they have learned very little.

Edited by ithuriel

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19 hours ago, st albans fox said:

 The  same  Lisa Nandy who is the chair of labour friends of Palestine ........ that’s a bit awks for many of the Labour Party anti semites ....

 

oh, and burgeon is surely up there for the award of the most obnoxious sycophant in the history of politics ???

Burgon is so thick he comes across as a poor parody of a thick politician.

 

Starmer is currently Labour's only hope, which is saying something. If Long-Bailey wins the party may never recover. What a depressing state of affairs.

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4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Couldn't vote for a single one of them now.

 

Crazy bastards.

Yep, I actually had high hopes for Nandy until she endorsed self-ID. Such a shame.

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I wasn't aware that a statistically small number of criminal cases was sufficient grounds to argue against the rights of a group to self determine, but then such profiling of a minority to judge a majority isn't really new...so swing away, I guess.

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2 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

I wasn't aware that a statistically small number of criminal cases was sufficient grounds to argue against the rights of a group to self determine, but then such profiling of a minority to judge a majority isn't really new...so swing away, I guess.

If by "swing away" you mean try as keep women safe from being violently raped by men like any civilised society should do then I'm happy to do it 24/7.

 

woman
/ˈwʊmən/
noun
  1. an adult human female

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7 minutes ago, MattP said:

If by "swing away" you mean try as keep women safe from being violently raped by men like any civilised society should do then I'm happy to do it 24/7.

 

woman
/ˈwʊmən/
noun
  1. an adult human female

Yes. Keep women safe while extending the right of self determination to those who deserve it.

 

It's not an either/or choice.

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No man should be allowed into female-only spaces, no matter how they choose to identify themselves. Similarly no man should be allowed to compete in women's sports. If they want to identify as a woman, good luck to them - but it does not mean that we should put women at risk to accommodate them.

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2 minutes ago, ClaphamFox said:

No man should be allowed into female-only spaces, no matter how they choose to identify themselves. Similarly no man should be allowed to compete in women's sports. If they want to identify as a woman, good luck to them - but it does not mean that we should put women at risk to accommodate them.

...so every person who transitions is inherently a risk to women?

 

That's the message I'm getting here, correct me if I'm wrong.

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Just now, leicsmac said:

...so every person who transitions is inherently a risk to women?

 

That's the message I'm getting here, correct me if I'm wrong.

Of course they aren't all a threat to women. But determining who is and who isn't would be impossible. The argument that trans women (ie, men) should be allowed access to women's only spaces is borne of the most virulent misogyny. It's basically men telling women, "you can't have your own spaces where you feel safe because some of us want to come in". 

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12 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Yes. Keep women safe while extending the right of self determination to those who deserve it.

 

It's not an either/or choice.

That's not what Lisa Nandy is saying though is it?

 

She wants the right to self determination for anyone, which is deeply misogynistic and will be highly dangerous in so many circumstances.

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