Starmer Next Labour Leader

[Kopfkino]

2 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Only he could genuinely believe the Chinese government. 

 

 

Presumably he actually means deny the existence of a virus, delete the evidence for its existence and prosecute the doctors that raise awareness of its existence. 

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

 

Only he could genuinely believe the Chinese government. 

 

I think this discussion has been had before; while the Chinese government do like their misinformation and are as self interested as any other government out there, there's been no really good reason given why lying about this specific situation would help them hold onto power (once the cat was out of the bag, anyway).

 

That being said, he would have been much better off using Korea as an example to learn from here - comparable surface area, comparable population number, very good record on handing this without the ruthless authoritarian hangup.

[UpTheLeagueFox]

 

[Dr The Singh]

2 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

 

I'm his Punjabi brother, maybe it will be me

[Guest MattP]

Watching the "victory speech" of Butler and Burgon could cheer up the nation. Let's hope they leak.

Edited 27 March 2020 by MattP

[urban.spaceman]

[Voll Blau]

Could provide an interesting early dilemma for the new leader if such an offer were to be made...

 

Quote

I'm a Tory MP but I believe we need Labour's leader in the cabinet to tackle coronavirus in the UK democratically

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/coronavirus-uk-cabinet-labour-leader-tory-mp-george-freeman-2524982

 

Personally I'd hope they'd take them up on it.

[Guest MattP]

So it's coming to end - a few thoughts on the tenure and legacy of Corbyn. (Sticking to his actual time as leader, rather than his history)

 

Positives:

 

The Mass Membership - can't deny the numbers, absolutely huge swaths of people were enthused by him and got genuinely excited at the prospect of him leading the country.

 

Economic Reform - He has certainly shifted the argument to more public spending and sent the Conservatives in a direction they wouldn't have voluntary gone.

 

Brexit - It probably wouldn't have happened without him as leader, I doubt he's got the Brexit he wanted, but I'm sure he raised a glass to it in secret in January. 

 

Negatives:

 

Results - 2 GE loses, one the worst since 1935, 2 sets of council losses and a terrible defeat in the European Elections, lost five sets of elections in five years in all and on that it was baffling he was still in the job for the final disaster in December. Learn from the Tories - May was given one chance and next time she was gone.

 

Salisbury - Still probably the most shameful incident seen in parliament for some time, a leader of a British political party stood at the despatch box and batted for the Russians rather than our own security services after state sanctioned murder.

 

Antisemitism - It took some effort to force MP's out the party, have the chief Rabbi warn against voting for you and become the first party since the BNP to be investigated by the ECHR.

 

Gentrification - Labour has been struggling for a while outside of university towns and cities but the last five years its moved more away from its core working class vote than ever, its totally lost in English towns and the shires, losing more votes in Wales and almost wiped out in Scotland.

 

Incompetence - Whatever you thought of New Labour it was an impeccable strategic electoral winning machine who knew exactly what was going on, he changed that to a load of kids and union organisers who moved activists from "safe" Kensington to Uxbridge as they fell for a Twitter rumour that Boris was in trouble. Boris increased his majority and Labour somehow lost Kensington. 

Edited 2 April 2020 by MattP

[Guest Markyblue]

18 hours ago, urban.spaceman said:

Totally disagree he done wonders for boris and the conservatives. 

[Dahnsouff]

We always need a viable opposition party and the insular nature of what Labour has become is disgusting too see.

Sample the people ffs.

[Guest MattP]

 

[Guest MattP]

 

What an era it was.

[Facecloth]

BBC 5 live trying build this up, but we all know it's going to be Starmer.

[urban.spaceman]

BBC saying Starmer’s won!

[Guest MattP]

Iain Duncan Smith elected Labour leader.

 

Edit: Sorry Keir Starmer

Edited 4 April 2020 by MattP

[st albans fox]

the virus has muddied the political waters .......I thought it was a bit mad to elect the staunchest  remainer out there but all bets are probably off now ....

 

the serious point is that for the first time since Blair, the Labour Party have a leader who is actually electable .......

Edited 4 April 2020 by st albans fox

[urban.spaceman]

Right, now start the ****ing purge. 

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

the virus has muddied the political waters .......I thought it was a bit mad to elect the staunchest  remainer out there but all bets are probably off now ....

 

the serious point is that for the first time since Blair, the Labour Party have a leader who is actually electable .......

I think that’s a fair point, he certainly won’t have the skeletons of the last motley crew.

Hopefully this will be the start of a return to sane politics, it’s a long way back mind.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I think that’s a fair point, he certainly won’t have the skeletons of the last motley crew.

Hopefully this will be the start of a return to sane politics, it’s a long way back mind.

His job is the same as Kinnocks tbf, clear out the hard left nutters and try and put the party in a position to be taken as a serious party of government again. They can't win a GE with Scotland gone anyway so use the next five years wisely.

 

His biggest issue is finding policy that appeals to people outside cities, they held places like Mansfield, Bassetlaw etc when Corbyn took over and these areas are now 15000 Tory majorities. 

 

Like Boris, he's now leading a totally different party and voter base than they were just a decade ago.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

His job is the same as Kinnocks tbf, clear out the hard left nutters and try and put the party in a position to be taken as a serious party of government again. They can't win a GE with Scotland gone anyway so use the next five years wisely.

 

His biggest issue is finding policy that appeals to people outside cities, they held places like Mansfield, Bassetlaw etc when Corbyn took over and these areas are now 15000 Tory majorities. 

 

Like Boris, he's now leading a totally different party and voter base than they were just a decade ago.

I know you say they can’t win without Scotland but I disagree, it’s a huge task but the political landscape is changing fast. I’m not saying he will do it, just it can be done if they can capitalise on Tory mistakes and capture the public’s imagination.

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I know you say they can’t win without Scotland but I disagree, it’s a huge task but the political landscape is changing fast. I’m not saying he will do it, just it can be done if they can capitalise on Tory mistakes and capture the public’s imagination.

To win without Scotland you are looking at places like Nuneaton and Swindon North going red.

 

For that to happen it will need a complete disaster from the Tories and a serious change of policy on cultural and social issues from Labour.

[Alf Bentley]

Leader

1st Round: Starmer 56.2%, Long-Bailey 27.6%, Nandy 16.2%

 

Deputy

1st Round: Rayner 41.7%, Burgon 17.3%, Allin-Khan 16.8%, Murray 13.3%, Butler 10.9%

[...]

3rd Round: Rayner 52.6%, Allin-Khan 26.1%, Burgon 21.3%

 

 

I'm a bit disappointed that Nandy & Murray didn't do a bit better than that, but results pretty much as expected.

 

Good news that both results were clear-cut, so there's no excuse for factional quibbling. Both Starmer & Rayner have a strong party electoral mandate.

Good news, also, that the Corbynista vote was only 20%-odd: 27.6% for Long-Bailey, 21.3% for Burgon with Butler eliminated - Long-Bailey correctly viewed as having a bit more credibility than Burgon!

 

I'm still not sure that Starmer will seem the right choice in 4 years, but who knows what the country or the world will be like in 4 years? 

He probably will seem a good choice in the short-term, while this crisis is ongoing - calm & intelligent with good attention to detail, even if he's not inspiring or charismatic. Should help re-establish some credibility short-term......

 

Even a year's time is like looking into a very different, unpredictable world....never mind 4 years.

In 4 years, things might be chaotic & disastrous in various ways or they might have settled down - and the Tory Govt might be seen (rightly or wrongly) as culpable for any disasters or as having handled things competently.

[Alf Bentley]

30 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I know you say they can’t win without Scotland but I disagree, it’s a huge task but the political landscape is changing fast. I’m not saying he will do it, just it can be done if they can capitalise on Tory mistakes and capture the public’s imagination.

 

I agree with that.

 

I'd add that the position in Scotland is unpredictable, too. The SNP looked well set to do well in the 2021 Scottish elections and might still do. But what impact will the virus crisis have on support for the SNP and for Independence?

Also, even if the SNP triumphs in 2021 and support for independence remains high, what will the electoral situation be in 4 years if (as likely) Johnson refuses to allow IndyRef2 and the SNP have had another 3 years in govt up there, probably in very difficult times re. the economy & public finances, even assuming the virus crisis is brought to some sort of successful conclusion or semi-conclusion?

 

Of course, it's a big jump from seeing difficult times ahead for the SNP to seeing Labour surging back in response - but Labour could have a big opportunity in Scotland, "if it can capitalise on SNP mistakes and capture the public's imagination", to use your phrase.

[Guest MattP]

First thing he should do is boot out that 17.3% that voted for Richard Burgon as first preference. You'd pretty much got rid of every hard left psychopath on one go there. Even 10% of RBL's backers couldn't bring themselves to do it

[Guest MattP]

Very important for the internal politics...

 

Momentum really were shit weren't they? RBL was a dreadful candidate, they didn't even get the NEC to vote on not letting new members vote and they couldn't even keep control of the NEC only needing about 10% of the membership to vote.