Starmer Next Labour Leader

[The whole world smiles]

37 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

But Labour's vote isn't solely a function of enthusiasm for its leader at the time. That 54-56% of U30s that voted cast their vote for Labour is not really proof that U30s were enthusiastic for Corbyn. 

Yeah but the actual vote is the only real metric you have in gauging his popularity amongst a certain age bracket. 

 

I mean if the turnout is high and they are voting in high numbers for one party it's hard to make a reasonable arguement against a lack of enthusiasm isn't it? Because if they were un-enthusiastic they could have voted lib dem. Especially as they were such a strong remain party wich should of spoked to a lot of the "young".

[The whole world smiles]

59 minutes ago, Matt_Lcfc said:

If you really think that there is a demand for ACTUAL radical socialism amongst the young you’re wrong. The fault of the Conservative party and no decent third party explains why Labour received the young vote in both 2017 and 2019. Additionally, Labour were also able to use social media effectively in both campaigns on platforms such as Twitter and Instagram (which younger people interacted with). Basing your campaign primarily on younger people and using social media to do so does not make him more popular, that’s different. I’m sure if social media was so widely-used in 1997, Tony Blair would have had similar / more of the younger vote. But yeah, you keep using your YouGov stats!

Thanks I will carry on trying to use statistics to back up my opinions. Call me crazy but that's how you traditionally win an arguement or influence an other persons opinion. 

 

You on the other hand seem to be from a different school of debating to me and haven't backed up any of your opinions with a single shred of evidence. So for that reason I think it's time to bring this matter to a close. 

[Gordon the Great]

51 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

Forget Milliband; Lammy “police lied about Grenfel death numbers” for shadow Justice Secretary.  FFS.

FFS indeed....that will get Labour elected.........more of the same please!...surely there must be a place for Diane somewhere? How we will miss her, if nothing else we need a good laugh in these troubled times............never mind, Lammy will no doubt prove a reasonable substitute!!

[Matt_Lcfc]

2 hours ago, The whole world smiles said:

Thanks I will carry on trying to use statistics to back up my opinions. Call me crazy but that's how you traditionally win an arguement or influence an other persons opinion. 

 

You on the other hand seem to be from a different school of debating to me and haven't backed up any of your opinions with a single shred of evidence. So for that reason I think it's time to bring this matter to a close. 

Lockdown has got you a bit rattled, eh? Strange.

 

[Foxxed]

Ooh a Tory get together. Marvelous. If I can just squeeze in...

 

He's united the party.

 

I'm looking forward to a functioning opposition.

[Foxin_Mad]

To be fair Miliband is a bloody great politician compared to most of the Corbyn lot in hindsight!

 

Lammy though seriously! If ever there were a more incompetent ****.

[urban.spaceman]

6 hours ago, Jon the Hat said:

Forget Milliband; Lammy “police lied about Grenfel death numbers” for shadow Justice Secretary.  FFS.

He's actually going to be the new "Gift That Keeps On Giving" Secretary.

 

 

And the most apt thing about that is that he supports Spurs.

[Guest MattP]

Given what he's got to work with I don't think Starmer has done a bad job of putting together a fairly decent shadow cabinet. At least its mostly full of competence unlike the previous opposition.

 

Agree that David Lammy is a shocker though, I'd advise he apologies to the Met for his Grenfell accusations but he's far too pig headed to do it.

 

On the plus side it means we are guaranteed some of his classic gaffes.

[Guest MattP]

 

[Mike Oxlong]

41 minutes ago, MattP said:

 

I bet Boris owned Andrew Neill and wasn’t bullied like that when interviewed by him as part of the lead up to the last election 

 

Thing is, I can’t find it anywhere. 
 

Could you post it Matt 

[Ian Norman Droid]

People are very disingenuous with politics. It's easy to pick a couple of shadow cabinet members and post a moment in time (or in the case of Lammy, quite a few moments in time) where they've looked stupid, but doesn't everybody look stupid sometimes? I mean, I can't think of a single member of the cabinet that I couldn't find multiple entries for - and imagine how long it would take to get through Boris' entries. But it isn't about moments in time - or it shouldn't be - it should be about a clear political vision and the capacity to deliver that vision. Idealistic possibly but it really is depressing how ideas like Keir Starmar somehow being responsible for failures in a police investigation and prosecution decisions before he was even the Director of Public Prosecutions become mainstream and believed despite being utter nonsense. Votes appear to be directed by what are effectively blooper reels these days. Surely the level of conversation on here can be better than that?

[Guest MattP]

Starmer bounce

 

 

[oxford blue]

On 08/04/2020 at 08:06, MattP said:

 

She is usually a far better performer than might be indicated in this clip. I don't know the topic they were discussing but it probably wasn't the economic performance of European countries compared to Britain - an example of typical Andrew Neil. I think she will prove to an effective Shadow Chancellor.

PS I did not vote for her at the last election although she was on my ballot paper.

[Finnaldo]

29 minutes ago, MattP said:

Starmer bounce

 

 

Is this any different to what we’ve seen globally regarding ruling party’s popularity? We’re a month into the response and not near our peak yet. It’ll be a lot more interesting to see party popularity a couple months into lockdown when we have a better idea of our first wave death count is. 

[Ian Norman Droid]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Starmer bounce

 

 

Are you having an honest political debate or supporting the Tory football team in this thread?

[Guest MattP]

29 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

Is this any different to what we’ve seen globally regarding ruling party’s popularity? We’re a month into the response and not near our peak yet. It’ll be a lot more interesting to see party popularity a couple months into lockdown when we have a better idea of our first wave death count is. 

Weirdly it's a bit of a mix, I posted a graph the other week and most had gone up.

 

Some leaders had gone down though, strangely one of them was Japan which I assumed looking at numbers has handled this well.

 

For the Tories to be polling at 46% in Wales is pretty extraordinary though whatever the times.

[Charl91]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

 

 

Some leaders had gone down though, strangely one of them was Japan which I assumed looking at numbers has handled this well.

 

 

How accurate is Japan's "we-have-no-coronavirus-problem-the-olympics-can-still-go-ahead" data, I suppose is the question.

[Kopfkino]

6 hours ago, MattP said:

Starmer bounce

 

 

 

I don't think anybody of sound mind thought there'd be a Starmer bounce? More that over time, effective opposition under his leadership will see them gain and judging by most the shadow ministerial team the effective opposition bit seems likely. 

[Voll Blau]

8 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

I don't think anybody of sound mind thought there'd be a Starmer bounce? More that over time, effective opposition under his leadership will see them gain and judging by most the shadow ministerial team the effective opposition bit seems likely. 

Especially given the current climate. His election was (rightly) only top of the rolling news agenda for about an hour after his victory.

 

When your two initial options as party leader are cautiously support the government for now or act like a complete dick in a time of national crisis then you're not exactly likely to make any headway in the polls either way.

[Guest MattP]

8 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

I don't think anybody of sound mind thought there'd be a Starmer bounce? More that over time, effective opposition under his leadership will see them gain and judging by most the shadow ministerial team the effective opposition bit seems likely. 

Its obviously an upgrade on the Corbyn cabinet, but we still have some shockers in there, David Lammy can be relied upon to stil continually insult its tradiotioning voting base 

 

Not to mention Naz "white girls being raped should shut their mouths for the sake of diversity" Shah has been appointed a minister for community cohesion, which is pretty startling.

[StanSP]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Not to mention Naz "white girls being raped should shut their mouths for the sake of diversity" Shah has been appointed a minister for community cohesion, which is pretty startling.

She actually said this  ?!

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, StanSP said:

She actually said this  ?!

I think she liked and retweeted something that said as much ......

[Alf Bentley]

18 minutes ago, StanSP said:

She actually said this  ?!

 

11 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

I think she liked and retweeted something that said as much ......

 

.....liked and retweeted something that said as much (in a parody Owen Jones account in 2017), then unliked and deleted retweet, saying it had been an accident, according to this:

https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,mp-naz-shah-should-resign-after-sharing-tweet-telling-sex-abuse-victims-to-keep-their-mouths-shut_23593.htm

 

Some will believe it was an accident. Some won't. Very stupid, even if it was an accident - and much worse if it wasn't.

 

But, as you'll know, it's also always worth asking why people raise particular issues (have a look at posts on this page alone)....

[Kopfkino]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

.....liked and retweeted something that said as much (in a parody Owen Jones account in 2017), then unliked and deleted retweet, saying it had been an accident, according to this:

https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,mp-naz-shah-should-resign-after-sharing-tweet-telling-sex-abuse-victims-to-keep-their-mouths-shut_23593.htm

 

Some will believe it was an accident. Some won't. Very stupid, even if it was an accident - and much worse if it wasn't.

 

But, as you'll know, it's also always worth asking why people raise particular issues (have a look at posts on this page alone)....

 

I don't believe it was an accident and she's an awful creature anyway but she's in such an inconsequential position that you wouldn't even know existed, like a proper W1A post, that it makes very little difference that's she's in a post or not. 

 

Whereas the Home Secretary had to leave her previous cabinet appointment for conducting her own foreign policy and the education secretary was sacked from his previous role for leaking sensitive information. 

 

So I think Starmer has managed to construct a less cranky team than Boris. 

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

....liked and retweeted something that said as much (in a parody Owen Jones account in 2017), then unliked and deleted retweet, saying it had been an accident, according to this:

https://www.rotherhamadvertiser.co.uk/news/view,mp-naz-shah-should-resign-after-sharing-tweet-telling-sex-abuse-victims-to-keep-their-mouths-shut_23593.htm

 

Some will believe it was an accident. Some won't. Very stupid, even if it was an accident - and much worse if it wasn't.

 

But, as you'll know, it's also always worth asking why people raise particular issues (have a look at posts on this page alone)....

I'm pretty sure at the time she did believe it, it wasn't uncommon in those communities at the time if you read a lot of the reporting around it. She also had to apologising for a pretty appalling FB post about Jewish people.

 

But having been educated on both subjects I'd happily say she doesn't now - but I still a role in communities probably isn't the best for her at this stage, no matter how insignificant.

 

I mean education is the key, as you imply there I've never been shy to bring up things to be critical of Islam and Muslims, I don't regret that, but I certainly do regret not making as much fuss over the positives these communities do based on their religion. The dedication to their faith, the charity work that often goes hand in hand with it, the sense of community many still have and the loyalty to caring for family members so prevalent, I wish white British communities still had those things to the level the Islamic community does.

 

1 hour ago, Kopfkino said:

I don't believe it was an accident and she's an awful creature anyway but she's in such an inconsequential position that you wouldn't even know existed, like a proper W1A post, that it makes very little difference that's she's in a post or not. 

 

Whereas the Home Secretary had to leave her previous cabinet appointment for conducting her own foreign policy and the education secretary was sacked from his previous role for leaking sensitive information. 

 

So I think Starmer has managed to construct a less cranky team than Boris. 

Fair points.

Edited 10 April 2020 by MattP