Starmer Next Labour Leader

[Mike Oxlong]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Agree with your analysis on Rayner. 

 

I don't think they'll be winning the next election whatever though - Boris is just box office at the ballot box and he's going to splash the cash.

 

Labour's biggest problem now could be the lies they told - no one aside from the hardcore will believe the "sell the NHS" nonsense again because of how hard they went on it this time.

Cough  - “Boris”

 

But the greased piglet is coated in Teflon as we have seen 

[Alf Bentley]

3 hours ago, MattP said:

Agree with your analysis on Rayner. 

 

I don't think they'll be winning the next election whatever though - Boris is just box office at the ballot box and he's going to splash the cash.

 

Labour's biggest problem now could be the lies they told - no one aside from the hardcore will believe the "sell the NHS" nonsense again because of how hard they went on it this time.

 

Lisa Nandy came across well on Marr, not for the first time. Though the Corbynistas wouldn't be keen. Might be a better option than Jess Phillips as the Soft/Pragmatic Left candidate.

I like Phillips & think she is front bench material, but could imagine her loud personality winding up some voters and her outspoken comments being a hostage to fortune with the media.

 

Of others mentioned....

Let's hear more (potential candidates): Long-Bailey, Rayner

Out to grass: McDonnell

Not up to the job: Burgon, Abbott, Butler (these 3 aren't even shadow cabinet material)

Senior position but not leader: Starmer (has the solidity/intellect to be Shadow Chancellor/Foreign Secretary, but too London elite to be leader?)....Thornberry, likewise

File with Phillips: Lammy (could see him as a good campaigning shadow minister with a narrow brief, but too much of a over-emotional loose cannon to be leader)

Biding their time?: Burnham & Sadiq Khan could have the ability, but will doubtless stay put as mayors for now

 

Re. Boris: I'm sure he will splash the cash for now. I anticipate a honeymoon period. But will he have any cash to splash in a couple of years & if he doesn't, will public spending remain a priority even if it means tax hikes and/or heavy borrowing? Plus, minor investment won't turn around the "red wall" areas, which have been neglected by successive govts ever since deindustrialisation under Thatcher. In the past, an 80-seat majority couldn't be turned around in 5 years, but we live in volatile times politically so I wouldn't say it's impossible, though a big task & the UK might be in a massive mess by then.

 

Re. NHS: Depends what happens with the NHS over the next 5 years, doesn't it? If all is fine and dandy with the NHS in 5 years, then you might be right. But if it's in a terrible state due to under-funding or mismanagement or if a lot of extra costs have been introduced via outsourcing or under a US-UK trade deal that opens it up to US Pharma/health services companies, it might still be high on the agenda. Again, whatever policies are pursued, demographic factors mean that it will be a massive & massively expensive task just to ensure there's a half-decent NHS in 5 years. A lot will happen in 5 years, one way or another, so impossible to tell.

Edited 15 December 2019 by Alf Bentley

[Dr The Singh]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Lisa Nandy came across well on Marr, not for the first time. Though the Corbynistas wouldn't be keen. Might be a better option than Jess Phillips as the Soft/Pragmatic Left candidate.

I like Phillips & think she is front bench material, but could imagine her loud personality winding up some voters and her outspoken comments being a hostage to fortune with the media.

 

Of others mentioned....

Let's hear more (potential candidates): Long-Bailey, Rayner

Out to grass: McDonnell

Not up to the job: Burgon, Abbott, Butler (these 3 aren't even shadow cabinet material)

Senior position but not leader: Starmer (has the solidity/intellect to be Shadow Chancellor/Foreign Secretary, but too London elite to be leader?)....Thornberry, likewise

File with Phillips: Lammy (could see him as a good campaigning shadow minister with a narrow brief, but too much of a over-emotional loose cannon to be leader)

Biding their time?: Burnham & Sadiq Khan could have the ability, but will doubtless stay put as mayors for now

 

Re. Boris: I'm sure he will splash the cash for now. I anticipate a honeymoon period. But will he have any cash to splash in a couple of years & if he doesn't, will public spending remain a priority even if it means tax hikes and/or heavy borrowing? Plus, minor investment won't turn around the "red wall" areas, which have been neglected by successive govts ever since deindustrialisation under Thatcher. In the past, an 80-seat majority couldn't be turned around in 5 years, but we live in volatile times politically so I wouldn't say it's impossible, though a big task & the UK might be in a massive mess by then.

 

Re. NHS: Depends what happens with the NHS over the next 5 years, doesn't it? If all is fine and dandy with the NHS in 5 years, then you might be right. But if it's in a terrible state due to under-funding or mismanagement or if a lot of extra costs have been introduced via outsourcing or under a US-UK trade deal that opens it up to US Pharma/health services companies, it might still be high on the agenda. Again, whatever policies are pursued, demographic factors mean that it will be a massive & massively expensive task just to ensure there's a half-decent NHS in 5 years. A lot will happen in 5 years, one way or another, so impossible to tell.

Bring Chuck Amuna back

[Alf Bentley]

Just now, Dr The Singh said:

Bring Chuck Amuna back

 

Chuck chucked himself out of the Labour Party, chuck! He chucked himself into the Lib Dems and then the electorate chucked him out of parliament.

[Charl91]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

Labour's biggest problem now could be the lies they told - no one aside from the hardcore will believe the "sell the NHS" nonsense again because of how hard they went on it this time.

Boris has shown that truthfulness isn't something that features highly on the electorate's agenda.

[Dr The Singh]

21 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Chuck chucked himself out of the Labour Party, chuck! He chucked himself into the Lib Dems and then the electorate chucked him out of parliament.

Labour is doomed, I think I have a chance

[Wolfox]

On 15/12/2019 at 02:40, DJ Barry Hammond said:

Ok, a couple of things that I think Labour have to do;

• Appoint a female leader
• Appoint an MP that is based north of Watford

Now for me, Angela Rayner is the candidate that best fits that profile and would prove an astute choice to put up against Johnson.

 

Just look at her back story and tell me it's not a perfect fit to start restoring faith in the party amongst Northern voters, which is what Labour need to do if they want to get anywhere near being relevant as a political party again. 

 

I also get the feeling that at the dispatch box, Johnson would end up having a real problem - I can't see him taking her seriously, to the extent the optics could end up being really bad for him. 

 

So that would be my current pick, if I had a vote in this (I don't) - no one else, even Starmer as capable as he seems, appeals as a likely winner against Johnson. 

 

That said, if there is one small positive Labour can take from this disastrous election, it's the seed the campaign managed to plant that Johnson is both a liar and chicken. That is definitely the narrative an opposition can use to good effect over a 5 year period to turn the tables.

I agree and as I put earlier she’d be my pick 

 

Also agree that metropolitan elite does not cut through with labour heartlands…. You need a proper Geordie like Blair 

 

 

On 15/12/2019 at 08:17, Heathrow fox said:

What is the obsession with picking a woman as leader?

 

I think this has been misunderstood/ confused…. 
 

It just so happens that all the outstanding candidates happen to be women….  So what?!

 

it’s a bit patronising making a big deal out of it….

[Gordon the Great]

On 13/12/2019 at 09:52, Langston said:

Starmer or Phillips would be great, but as mentioned above - unlikely, unfortunately.

Starmer or Phillips would be perfect! for Boris to be P.M. for 20 years (HOPEFULLY)

[Langston]

4 minutes ago, Gordon the Great said:

Starmer or Phillips would be perfect! for Boris to be P.M. for 20 years (HOPEFULLY)

 

Nice one G

[Voll Blau]

On 15/12/2019 at 01:40, DJ Barry Hammond said:

Ok, a couple of things that I think Labour have to do;

• Appoint a female leader
• Appoint an MP that is based north of Watford

I do feel like this point is being somewhat overstated (largely, from what I've seen, from London-based commentators too!) especially given the public of the North and Midlands have just decided they want yet another Old Etonian Hooray (who's also a London MP) running the country.

 

Selecting a leader based on such criteria might make Labour feel good about itself for a little while, but it's absolutely no guarantee of electoral success and looking for a simple solution to a more complex problem.

[CosbehFox]

On 14/12/2019 at 08:48, Milo said:

I spent most of yesterday listening to Labour MP’s on the radio and I came away with the impression that they really don’t think there is a big problem within the party. 
 

Unfair media coverage and Brexit were the reasons they didn’t win, apparently. 

Whether it's self-aware or not, they have been briefed to do this by Labour's media guy, Seamus Milne. I am not entirely sure it's a view representative of their MPs. 

 

Ironically something which has gone under the radar is that Milne and Corbyn agreed no personal attack strategy. They chose not to go after Johnson's skeletons, certainly not publicly. Media hacks are said not to mind working with Milne despite his very left background. 

[Milo]

9 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Whether it's self-aware or not, they have been briefed to do this by Labour's media guy, Seamus Milne. I am not entirely sure it's a view representative of their MPs. 

 

Ironically something which has gone under the radar is that Milne and Corbyn agreed no personal attack strategy. They chose not to go after Johnson's skeletons, certainly not publicly. Media hacks are said not to mind working with Milne despite his very left background. 

And after such a chaotic, appalling, devastatingly awful campaign they're still listening to him? 

[CosbehFox]

On 15/12/2019 at 08:17, Heathrow fox said:

What is the obsession with picking a woman as leader?

Countries which have found greater success with similar manifestos have been led by women. The 'care' aspect goes a lot way in this regard. 

[Dahnsouff]

 

 

Hollywood confirmed a remake is being made....

[CosbehFox]

27 minutes ago, Milo said:

And after such a chaotic, appalling, devastatingly awful campaign they're still listening to him? 

Yes because of the power that 'section' of Labour still currently holds and will hold unless there's a change in the membership in the next two to three months. 

Edited 16 December 2019 by Cardiff_Fox

[Alf Bentley]

9 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

I do feel like this point is being somewhat overstated (largely, from what I've seen, from London-based commentators too!) especially given the public of the North and Midlands have just decided they want yet another Old Etonian Hooray (who's also a London MP) running the country.

 

Selecting a leader based on such criteria might make Labour feel good about itself for a little while, but it's absolutely no guarantee of electoral success and looking for a simple solution to a more complex problem.

 

I agree that choosing a female, northern leader is nothing like a solution on its. Policy platform/priorities, strategy, organisation, media presentation.....no shortage of other things are more important to address.

 

In theory, it's quite conceivable that a male and/or London leader might be the best person to lead such change.

 

As it happens, though, it seems to me that most, if not all the potential leaders are non-London female MPs.

The potential exception is Starmer, undoubtedly a capable man. But his close association with the fight against a Tory Brexit would be a massive hostage to fortune, wouldn't it? I can imagine the Tories repeatedly labeling him as "the man who tried to stop Brexit", "the man who tried to defy democracy" etc. Could be tough to fight such a sustained attack.

 

Of other London Labour MPs, McDonnell is returning to the back benches, Thornberry's personality & pro-Remain stance would alienate too many & I don't reckon Dawn Butler is up to the job, from what I've heard of her.

Worth at least hearing from Nandy, Long-Bailey, Rayner & Phillips (though I suspect Phillips' personality, like Thornberry's, might wind up voters & she has a bit of a loose lip). Richard Burgon can get straight in the bin!

[Alf Bentley]

On 14/12/2019 at 08:48, Milo said:

I spent most of yesterday listening to Labour MP’s on the radio and I came away with the impression that they really don’t think there is a big problem within the party. 
 

Unfair media coverage and Brexit were the reasons they didn’t win, apparently. 
 

The lack of self awareness and levels of delusion are astonishing. 
 

 

Top hint: The MPs that parrot this line are the loyal Corbynistas - those who want to pursue Corbyn's agenda after he's gone. 

 

Solely blaming Brexit and media attacks on Corbyn allows them to claim there was nothing wrong with the policy platform or with Corbyn.

 

There's no need to jettison every policy presented under Corbyn, as some were good ideas, but anyone claiming it was all Brexit & the media should be ignored & certainly not elected leader.

The fact that the likes of Nandy & Phillips didn't say that makes them at least worthy of consideration.

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I agree that choosing a female, northern leader is nothing like a solution on its. Policy platform/priorities, strategy, organisation, media presentation.....no shortage of other things are more important to address.

 

In theory, it's quite conceivable that a male and/or London leader might be the best person to lead such change.

 

As it happens, though, it seems to me that most, if not all the potential leaders are non-London female MPs.

The potential exception is Starmer, undoubtedly a capable man. But his close association with the fight against a Tory Brexit would be a massive hostage to fortune, wouldn't it? I can imagine the Tories repeatedly labeling him as "the man who tried to stop Brexit", "the man who tried to defy democracy" etc. Could be tough to fight such a sustained attack.

 

Of other London Labour MPs, McDonnell is returning to the back benches, Thornberry's personality & pro-Remain stance would alienate too many & I don't reckon Dawn Butler is up to the job, from what I've heard of her.

Worth at least hearing from Nandy, Long-Bailey, Rayner & Phillips (though I suspect Phillips' personality, like Thornberry's, might wind up voters & she has a bit of a loose lip). Richard Burgon can get straight in the bin!

Good summary. Whoever wins, there'll be a hook the Tories will try to beat them with (if not members of their own party!) so I'm trying not to let that influence too much on who I'll vote for. You can't help but let it enter your thinking though after leadership has had such a bearing on Thursday night's result...

[Guest MattP]

It's going to very interesting how the Labour leadership candidates vote on the Brexit withdrawal deal.

 

Fully expect the remain snob faction like Thornberry and Starmer to go against but it's a big call for Nandy, Philips RBL etc

[LiberalFox]

2 hours ago, Voll Blau said:

I do feel like this point is being somewhat overstated (largely, from what I've seen, from London-based commentators too!) especially given the public of the North and Midlands have just decided they want yet another Old Etonian Hooray (who's also a London MP) running the country.

 

Selecting a leader based on such criteria might make Labour feel good about itself for a little while, but it's absolutely no guarantee of electoral success and looking for a simple solution to a more complex problem.

Yeah totally, and it's actually a bit patronising thinking that they just need to get someone with a northern accent in to win back working class votes.

[Milo]

2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Top hint: The MPs that parrot this line are the loyal Corbynistas - those who want to pursue Corbyn's agenda after he's gone. 

 

Solely blaming Brexit and media attacks on Corbyn allows them to claim there was nothing wrong with the policy platform or with Corbyn.

 

There's no need to jettison every policy presented under Corbyn, as some were good ideas, but anyone claiming it was all Brexit & the media should be ignored & certainly not elected leader.

The fact that the likes of Nandy & Phillips didn't say that makes them at least worthy of consideration.

Yep - could've well been. To be honest, it was the morning after the night before that I was listening to it, and I was expecting some contrition, reflection or honest analysis...

 

I think the shock for me was the contrast of what had happened, to the message that was being pushed by the labour MP's who were interviewed (and I can't remember who they were, unfortunately). 

 

I don't really have any major interest in any of the candidates - I honestly don't think it will matter who is in charge...it feels a bit like when Fergie left United and they have since been irrelevant for the best part of a decade.

 

 

[Foxin_Mad]

Long Bailey looks like a right sneering snooty cow. I can imagine she would wind up many midlands/northern voters with he po faced sneering down at them over her specs. Just no.

 

Whoever takes over needs to admit they didn't win any arguments, hence they got battered. There is no appetite for a far left government here, thank god.

Edited 16 December 2019 by Foxin_Mad

[Guest MattP]

It really is a shit selection isn't it?

 

Problem is now the party is full of people they spent the last thirty years chucking out.

Edited 16 December 2019 by MattP

[Mike Oxlong]

I see Thornberry is suing Flint 

 

What a c@*%

 

 

Edit - For the avoidance of doubt the above C word is “card” just in case Emily was thinking of engaging one of M’learned friends

[Lionator]

5 hours ago, MattP said:

It's going to very interesting how the Labour leadership candidates vote on the Brexit withdrawal deal.

 

Fully expect the remain snob faction like Thornberry and Starmer to go against but it's a big call for Nandy, Philips RBL etc

Anyone who votes against the deal now should be automatically out of the running. Political suicide.

 

I'm coming around to the idea of Rayner, Lisa Nandy I'd like to hear more of too. They need to pick the best leader, not the morally correct leader.