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22 minutes ago, Spudulike said:

The fishing card being held by the UK appears to be bigger than it seemed. 

 

If Barnier's mandate is to secure equivalent CFP rights then something has to give. The cost of moving frozen fish from elsewhere is not going to be popular (or desirable) on the continent. Not sure what % of the EU's fish comes from UK waters but it must be quite high. 

But the majority of fish caught by British fishing boats is sold fresh to the restaurants in Paris and around EU. Brits only eat a small selection of seafood in any significant quantity but on the continent many more species are regularly consumed. European restaurants pay good money for fresh fish. If we lose access on decent terms then we'll be uncompetitive and might lose that market. Should that happen the British fleet would be forced to freeze the fish to sell further afield - frozen fish is priced far, far lower. So it would hurt our fishermen very significantly. 

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30 minutes ago, Toddybad said:

But the majority of fish caught by British fishing boats is sold fresh to the restaurants in Paris and around EU. Brits only eat a small selection of seafood in any significant quantity but on the continent many more species are regularly consumed. European restaurants pay good money for fresh fish. If we lose access on decent terms then we'll be uncompetitive and might lose that market. Should that happen the British fleet would be forced to freeze the fish to sell further afield - frozen fish is priced far, far lower. So it would hurt our fishermen very significantly. 

From what I can gather, 35% of the fish caught in UK territorial waters are by EU fleets. Plus two thirds of fish caught by UK boats (the second largest fleet) are sold to the EU. There won't be much fresh fish in the EU unless a deal is made. 

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1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

The fishing card being held by the UK appears to be bigger than it seemed. 

 

It's huge and the EU's position is of course utter nonsense, on the one hand they say things can't stay the same and on the other they think fishing can stay the same. To think an independent UK could agree to continue with a grotesquely unfair situation but I expect it's just posturing.

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8 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

 

It's huge and the EU's position is of course utter nonsense, on the one hand they say things can't stay the same and on the other they think fishing can stay the same. To think an independent UK could agree to continue with a grotesquely unfair situation but I expect it's just posturing.

May well be just posturing but Barnier has stated there will be no trade deal without a fisheries agreement (something about making that position Crystal clear). 

 

What happened to the Canada+++ deal offered by Tusk? Perhaps he wasn't aware of the UKs close proximity. Or perhaps just another ruse by EU negotiators. 

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1 hour ago, Spudulike said:

From what I can gather, 35% of the fish caught in UK territorial waters are by EU fleets. Plus two thirds of fish caught by UK boats (the second largest fleet) are sold to the EU. There won't be much fresh fish in the EU unless a deal is made. 

The EU fleet catches 6 million tons a year, of which around 700,000 tons comes from British waters.

 

And the British fleet will still need to sell their catch somewhere. They'd either have to accept less money due to tariffs or sell further afield at lower price and with much greater transportation costs.

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3 hours ago, Toddybad said:

Haven't seen any clip of him but the EU previously published its 350 page negotiating position. Where's ours? No doubt some Cummings game is at work. It's like we're being run by a secondary school level student council.

 

Biggest concern at the moment is how the UK can get supplies it badly needs if the current crisis keeps running into next year and we end up competing with a much bigger market for access to medical equipment etc.

 

I mean, we've left the EU, it's done. I can't understand why anybody would think it beneficial to not put off trade competition Vs the EU until after the Covid situation has played out. The idea it's remainders trying to keep us tied to the EU is stupid, we're already out, but this is a pretty stupid time to be trying to play hardball when you're the weaker team. 

EUs negotiation mandate document was about 45 long if my memory serves, I was sad enough to read most of it.
 

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/868874/The_Future_Relationship_with_the_EU.pdf

Edited by Beechey
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On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2020 at 22:56, Toddybad said:

The EU fleet catches 6 million tons a year, of which around 700,000 tons comes from British waters.

 

And the British fleet will still need to sell their catch somewhere. They'd either have to accept less money due to tariffs or sell further afield at lower price and with much greater transportation costs.

The EU has strict fishing quotas to try and preserve their stocks, so they will be down by quite a margin, they would have to do a deal with us in some form or suffer a major lack of product.

The real sticking point on this will be Macron, the French WANT access to our waters or it is really going to hurt their fishing industry.

I think some kind of deal will be done here, most probably involving licenses to allow foreign boats to fish our waters, though maybe having to use British harbours to unload?

The EU will make a lot of noise on this trying to look tough but at the end of the day they want what we have so a deal will be made unless Boris is going to force a no deal through regardless, that's my opinion.

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On 25/04/2020 at 22:11, Spudulike said:

May well be just posturing but Barnier has stated there will be no trade deal without a fisheries agreement (something about making that position Crystal clear).

And there will be an agreement on fisheries. The EU's whole mstra is that leaving has consequences so I think they realise that it can't have the same arrangement on fishing. It'll likely be something that has to be renegotiated every so often and certainly won't allow French boats to catch twice what UK boats catch in UK waters, but it'll happen if wider negotiations get done

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28 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

And there will be an agreement on fisheries. The EU's whole mstra is that leaving has consequences so I think they realise that it can't have the same arrangement on fishing. It'll likely be something that has to be renegotiated every so often and certainly won't allow French boats to catch twice what UK boats catch in UK waters, but it'll happen if wider negotiations get done

From what I can gather, the UK offer is similar to the Norway agreement with the EU ie. Reviewed on a yearly basis. 

 

There has to be an agreement to keep Macron in post after he promised the French fleets they would be able to continue fishing in UK territorial waters after Brexit. Very risky. 

 

Additionally, it seems the 'Level Playing Field' has become the new Irish backstop as, they think, its a big stick to hit us with. The bleating about the UK not seriously engaging on matters important to the EU really does sound like a realisation that Frost and Co are not for budging. 

 

Surprised that M Barnier reverted back to the tired old ticking clock mantra. But who is it ticking for? 

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On 27/04/2020 at 11:24, Spudulike said:

From what I can gather, the UK offer is similar to the Norway agreement with the EU ie. Reviewed on a yearly basis. 

 

There has to be an agreement to keep Macron in post after he promised the French fleets they would be able to continue fishing in UK territorial waters after Brexit. Very risky. 

 

Additionally, it seems the 'Level Playing Field' has become the new Irish backstop as, they think, its a big stick to hit us with. The bleating about the UK not seriously engaging on matters important to the EU really does sound like a realisation that Frost and Co are not for budging. 

 

Surprised that M Barnier reverted back to the tired old ticking clock mantra. But who is it ticking for? 

I wonder if some sections of the UK will rue their early jump on the LPF bandwagon with very little understanding of what they really are, because it may well make the government less likely to accept a common sense solution. Very much similar to the toss blurted out about the 'Norway' option/EEA-EFTA when they were too busy trying to have another go rather than looking for a path forward. The most common sense solution being somewhere close to dynamic market access tied to LPFs where the UK loses market access if it later decides it doesn't want to apply some LPFs. 

 

Barnier's words are the EU trying to wrestle to initiative. As I said to Alf earlier in the year, the looser the agreement, the closer it comes to the UK's desired position (whether that is a sensible position is largely immaterial at this stage) so the agenda is largely being set by the UK. There are points the UK very obviously needs to move on but it needs political intervention rather than technocratic negotiations.

 

For me, the amusing thing is that Barnier's words are often perceived in the UK 'serious' media as objective reality, a true summation. Has been the same throughout, when its the UK its cherry-picking and when its the EU its negotiation.

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Guest MattP

First Darren Grimes and Vote Leave, now Aaron Banks and leave.eu.

 

Every allegation the Electoral Commission has made has fallen apart in court, big investigation needed into it.

 

Carole Cadwaller had better get her chequebook out for all these smears, she's going to get ****ed like a train by Banks and rightly so. 

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1 hour ago, MattP said:

Carole Cadwaller had better get her chequebook out for all these smears, she's going to get ****ed like a train by Banks and rightly so.

 

I genuinely wonder how that Carol woman has the energy to live life. I've had to mute her on Twitter to stop my brain cells dying but it's quite incredible how she sees conspiracy in literally everything and that the Guardian continues to pay her. I don't know if this is just her or if her head has just completely gone. 

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Guest MattP
5 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

I genuinely wonder how that Carol woman has the energy to live life. I've had to mute her on Twitter to stop my brain cells dying but it's quite incredible how she sees conspiracy in literally everything and that the Guardian continues to pay her. I don't know if this is just her or if her head has just completely gone. 

It's that bad now I even logged on to the Guardian today to see if this was true.

IMG_20200429_220206.jpg

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1 hour ago, MattP said:

First Darren Grimes and Vote Leave, now Aaron Banks and leave.eu.

 

Every allegation the Electoral Commission has made has fallen apart in court, big investigation needed into it.

 

Carole Cadwaller had better get her chequebook out for all these smears, she's going to get ****ed like a train by Banks and rightly so. 

Christ you wouldn’t want any of this remain nutjobs in your team would you? They can’t win a raffle.

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On 29/04/2020 at 21:56, Kopfkino said:

I genuinely wonder how that Carol woman has the energy to live life. I've had to mute her on Twitter to stop my brain cells dying but it's quite incredible how she sees conspiracy in literally everything and that the Guardian continues to pay her. I don't know if this is just her or if her head has just completely gone. 

Have you noticed how certain journalists and activists have the most draining news feeds

Everything is bad, everything is miserable, everything is wrong

They must live the most negative, unhappy lives

Yeah the world is a shiitshow right now but shine a bit of light in the gloom sometimes for god sake

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14 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Have you noticed how certain journalists and activists have the most draining news feeds

Everything is bad, everything is miserable, everything is wrong

They must live the most negative, unhappy lives

Yeah the world is a shiitshow right now but shine a bit of light in the gloom sometimes for god sake

There does have to be balance, it's true. Yeah, humans can and often will do some horrible things to each other, but at the same time there's good things out there too and we're capable of so much more.

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On 03/05/2020 at 12:24, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Have you noticed how certain journalists and activists have the most draining news feeds

Everything is bad, everything is miserable, everything is wrong

They must live the most negative, unhappy lives

Yeah the world is a shiitshow right now but shine a bit of light in the gloom sometimes for god sake

look !!   I am still here...:bounce:...  

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19 minutes ago, MattP said:

Without really knowing what's going on in these talks it does seem the EU are getting very worried. Amazing how time pressure focus' the mind. Seems that UK negotiators have learnt the tactic from experience. 

 

Looks like we could be getting out in the nick of time. 

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