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Corona Virus

Mark

No political discussion in this topic. That is complaining about a country, a politician, a party and/or its voters, etc

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20 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:


It quite literally mentions the government looking to avoid ‘draconian measures’. That’s exactly what we’re doing now. That’s not a change in plan?

I take your point, but I still think you are misunderstanding the plan.

 

This needs to be put into the proper context of the timeline.  Going too early (with Draconian measures) can be counterproductive.  Understanding that the virus cannot be stopped so having a plan of staged interventions to funnel patients through the health system in manageable amounts is, in the opinions of government advisers the best way to save lives.  That's the plan.

 

I think you are reading it that the UK hoped to get away with it with out introducing Draconian measures at all.  I read it that the interventions have to be staged in response to the curve.  Just ask yourself, how would they expect to flatten the curve, the underpinning of the strategy, without introducing measures?  We were just at a different stage in the timeline.

 

Edited by murphy

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35 minutes ago, String fellow said:

If we all wore a 4 metre diameter hula-hoop around our waists, would that do the trick? 

It would yeah, no one would be able to fit through their front doors. Enforced home isolation

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38 minutes ago, String fellow said:

If we all wore a 4 metre diameter hula-hoop around our waists, would that do the trick? 

I'd definitely eat mine.

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11 minutes ago, murphy said:

I take your point, but I still think you are misunderstanding the plan.

 

I think you have too much faith in the idea that this is all part of a 'plan'. I'm not going to criticise the government too much at the moment because it's a horrible situation that they have started to respond well to, but it took them too long to get their arses in gear. The idea that we sacrifice lives in the short term because Brits will react badly to sudden draconian measures is absurd. 

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7 minutes ago, bovril said:

I think you have too much faith in the idea that this is all part of a 'plan'. I'm not going to criticise the government too much at the moment because it's a horrible situation that they have started to respond well to, but it took them too long to get their arses in gear. The idea that we sacrifice lives in the short term because Brits will react badly to sudden draconian measures is absurd. 

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Edited by murphy
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Just now, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Yes the plan is about trying to save lives by not overstretching NHS capacity, so drip feeding us measures that got ever-so-slightly more stringent as the days went on seems odd to me. The government lost time and sent out mixed messages. 

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2 minutes ago, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

WHO maybe?

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I find is fascinating that some people think the government should have locked everyone inside for an indeterminate amount of time till a vaccines is ready then expect everyone to pop out there houses with cheery smiles. If you start a lock down with the intention of nobody catching the virus then you have to stay in that state till the virus is no longer a danger right? Nobody died from the virus but half the country opened their wrists after watching Mrs Browns boys live for the 10,000th time.

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1 minute ago, l444ry said:

WHO maybe?

OK, they have given general advice but I am yet to see them come up with a one size fits all plan.

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55 minutes ago, String fellow said:

If we all wore a 4 metre diameter hula-hoop around our waists, would that do the trick? 


Looking at society in modern times, some people wouldn’t be able to fit into one of those. 

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4 minutes ago, murphy said:

OK, they have given general advice but I am yet to see them come up with a one size fits all plan.

Go on their website murphy. It's all there in black and white. The herd immunity strategy was a mistake of monumental proportions and the death toll we face in the next few weeks will confirm this. Johnson and Tory bootlickers should be honest with themselves and admit that much at least. 

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14 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


Looking at society in modern times, some people wouldn’t be able to fit into one of those. 

They call it a belt.

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1 hour ago, brucey said:

Great in theory, but in reality the world is far more dependent on China than vice versa. All will be forgotten, plans to shift manufacturing locally shelved, and nothing much will change. 

Yes. When all this is over it will be the great industrial nations and groups of nations which are most likely to be in the strongest position. As we will need a new trade deal with China (and they are and will be massively vital to our economic recovery) they will hold virtually all the cards.

Any talk of punishing China is Trumpis in the extreme.

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14 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Go on their website murphy. It's all there in black and white.

I just did.  I'm not going to argue with WHO, but I see lots of statistics and advice but not an off the shelf plan to manage an epidemic, or maybe I am just missing it.  We need to rely on our own experts for that and I'm sure they listen to and are part of WHO;

 

17 minutes ago, l444ry said:

 The herd immunity strategy was a mistake of monumental proportions and the death toll we face in the next few weeks will confirm this. Johnson and Tory bootlickers should be honest with themselves and admit that much at least. 

Don't start me off again lol

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40 minutes ago, murphy said:

No part of the plan is to sacrifice lives.  It's all about saving them by trying not to overstretch NHS capacity,.  The interventions need to be at different stages of the curve for that reason.

 

We are told that we can't stop it.  To produce a flatline graph with an instant lockdown is not possible.  It is the same everywhere, so we need to broaden the curve.

 

Maybe I do have too much faith in it, but if you don't believe the epidemiologists, the health officers and the scientists, who do you believe?

Well that isn't looking likely. We have to hope what we are doing works because if not in 2 weeks we will have 232000 people infected if the number of infections double every 4 days. If that is what he really meant (Gove at press conference)

Edited by reynard

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38 minutes ago, filbertway said:

I find is fascinating that some people think the government should have locked everyone inside for an indeterminate amount of time till a vaccines is ready then expect everyone to pop out there houses with cheery smiles. If you start a lock down with the intention of nobody catching the virus then you have to stay in that state till the virus is no longer a danger right? Nobody died from the virus but half the country opened their wrists after watching Mrs Browns boys live for the 10,000th time.

You speak like there was months between the decisions.. that extra week really isn’t going to send people stir crazy when we are told possibly 3 months 

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44 minutes ago, Costock_Fox said:

They call it a belt.


The word hula-hoop would definitely get their attention mind you. 

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Not only was the idea of 'herd immunity' a bad one, but even the phrase itself isn't great. Is the human population of this country really just a 'herd'? Wouldn't something like 'group immunity' make it sound a little less like we are all no better than a field full of cows? 

Edited by String fellow
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4 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:


I couldn’t have said it better. 
 

The government and their spokespeople are trying to get a message across that can be understood (and still isn’t) by the whole population. Whether the plan we have is right, is by-the-by now. It’s the plan and it’ll only work if it’s adhered to, but if it is adhered to, it will work. This is an unprecedented situation in modern times, especially in the western-world. 
 

The information given to us has to be understood by all. If they were being honest, many would understand, even if they disagree they’d understand that it’s the way we’re heading (still entitled to their opinions on it of course). However there seems to be so many people, even from the outset who simply can’t understand what’s going on. Why we’re socially distancing, when to wash their hands etc. 
 

The whole situation has made me realise, in society, at work, in my social groups how little common sense people have. How they can’t see the bigger picture, what knock-on effects things have, etc... 

Particularly the economy and how that works.

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2 hours ago, Thommo said:

If we all wore a 2 Meter diameter hula hoop...that would do the trick.


Nope

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