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Phube

What makes a ‘good’ league?

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I’m not sure if this has been discussed before but I’m getting more and more annoyed with all Premier League discussion shows/podcasts when without fail someone will mention that this is a poor league. The main rational for this is because apart from Liverpool and Norwich, every one can seem to lose at any point to anyone else.


Now I don’t care if it is currently a ‘poor’ league we’re during 3rd in or not, it’s the justification for calling it a poor league that confuses/annoys me. 
 

How do you judge the health of a league in isolation? Why is the league poor because Watford can beat Man U, but then Man U can beat Man City? Ignoring Liverpool the doesn’t it mean the league is good if most teams are of a level that the outcome of any particular game is unknown/hard to predict?

 

Even judging by goals per game (of which even with VAR) this year is very similar to previous seasons, doesn’t prove anything as more goals means worse defending and vice versa.

 

So unless we judge against external competition (which currently all English clubs are still in) we can’t really know for sure?

 

So really the question is; have you been guilty of casually calling this year‘s league poor and if so what justification do you have for calling it so?

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Competitiveness across the board. I don't mind the odd season where one team absolutely storms it and runs away with it. That happens and we have to live with it. It's when it happens regularly like PSG/Juve/Bayern did in their leagues which makes it boring.

 

One thing that royally did piss me off was people saying 'Leicester won it because the league was poor that season'. I wholeheartedly and heavily disagree. We purely did what every other side couldn't do. The league wasn't poor. We were just more consistent and effective than others who weren't. Because the bigger sides weren't as good, it actually made it more competitive and gave the opportunity for other sides to capitalise. We were one of those sides. 

 

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1 minute ago, urban.spaceman said:

Whatever league Leicester City are in. 

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

The Championship 2004-2008 would like to disagree.

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A good league is one my team is doing better than i expect in. (oh and i can watch them in).

 

I just thought, have we already become spoiled...can you imagine relegation and 6-7 years in the champ again?

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Good quality competitive football matches with results that can upset expectations. Predictable leagues with huge gaps in quality creates tedium: you either watch foregone conclusions or bad quality football.

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I think it's pretty poor that for the third year running a team is going to hit around 100 points. Last year you had 98 and 97, the year before you had 100, Liverpool this year could legitimately hit 110 which is frankly ridiculous - I can't help but feel like a lot of pre-conceived perceptions change peoples opinion, if PSG had 79 points in February you would hear all sorts of shouts of farmers league etc... but because it's the Premier League, it's not the case?

 

I still obviously think it's strong but it's definitely been better, and yet never has the league had such a collective financial dominance over the rest of the footballing world.

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5 hours ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

Of course we've been spoilt.

We won the damn Premier League.

We not only played in the Champions League but won our group and made the quarter finals, the only British team that season to do so.

For those of us who've suffered more often than not for several decades, it's been beyond our wildest dreams.

Nothing is likely to eclipse that magical journey ever again.

 

We've stumbled for a couple of months while remaining IN THE TOP 3 IN THE PREMIER LEAGUE with the likelihood of CHAMPIONS LEAGUE FOOTBALL AGAIN NEXT SEASON, reaching the League Cup semis (disappointing as it was not to make Wembley), still in the FA Cup and having one of the BEST HALF DOZEN SEASONS IN OUR ENTIRE HISTORY ... and yet some fans are having a ridiculous meltdown. 

Exactly my thoughts... can you imagine being back in the championship?

"We" are complaining and moaning about our side/players while we sit THIRD in the premier league :O 

How will our fans react to a midtable Championship side that loses to Portsmouth at home.. or digs out an ugly 1-1 at Preston North End :)

 



Edit.. lol that PNE match might happen next year in the Prem!!... i didnt realise they had snuck up into the playoff spots

 

Edited by ozleicester

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5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I think it's pretty poor that for the third year running a team is going to hit around 100 points. Last year you had 98 and 97, the year before you had 100, Liverpool this year could legitimately hit 110 which is frankly ridiculous - I can't help but feel like a lot of pre-conceived perceptions change peoples opinion, if PSG had 79 points in February you would hear all sorts of shouts of farmers league etc... but because it's the Premier League, it's not the case?

 

I still obviously think it's strong but it's definitely been better, and yet never has the league had such a collective financial dominance over the rest of the footballing world.

It will end though... 

 

we will have closer seasons amongst the top 4-6, no doubt about it.

 

the league currently, bar Liverpool, has been incredibly competitive. I’d be amazed if it’s this close next year.

 

also you highlight collective financial dominance across the rest of the world. But you look at other leagues (bundesliga for example) that I feel will perform better than our representatives in this years CL. Doesn’t always but success 

 

 

 

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The media call it a poor league because too many of the top clubs are going through awful decline / transition. 

 

We can be pissy and sensitive about it all we want but you can kinda see their point, maybe not entirely in 15/16 but definitely this year. Arsenal, Chelsea, United, Tottenham all garbage and the team in first winning by 26 points in Feb. Its a bit nuts. 

 

Relative to the rest of Europe the league, collectively, is very strong at the moment because every club can invest so much. Villa have spent probably more than the bottom 16 clubs of Serie A or La Liga combined this year, probably the Bundesliga too. Its insane. 

 

Obviously that contributes to the big clubs struggles because the whole division is tougher than it was but that's no real excuse for the likes of Arsenal and United being as poor as they are. 

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12 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I think it's pretty poor that for the third year running a team is going to hit around 100 points. Last year you had 98 and 97, the year before you had 100, Liverpool this year could legitimately hit 110 which is frankly ridiculous - I can't help but feel like a lot of pre-conceived perceptions change peoples opinion, if PSG had 79 points in February you would hear all sorts of shouts of farmers league etc... but because it's the Premier League, it's not the case?

 

I still obviously think it's strong but it's definitely been better, and yet never has the league had such a collective financial dominance over the rest of the footballing world.

tbf the one thing we have as an advantage over the french league is that at least when liverpool get 100 points we can point to the fact they are the world champions, when psg were/are getting a similar number of points they were getting knocked out in the round of 16 every year. 

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17 hours ago, Phube said:

I’m not sure if this has been discussed before but I’m getting more and more annoyed with all Premier League discussion shows/podcasts when without fail someone will mention that this is a poor league. The main rational for this is because apart from Liverpool and Norwich, every one can seem to lose at any point to anyone else.


Now I don’t care if it is currently a ‘poor’ league we’re during 3rd in or not, it’s the justification for calling it a poor league that confuses/annoys me. 
 

How do you judge the health of a league in isolation? Why is the league poor because Watford can beat Man U, but then Man U can beat Man City? Ignoring Liverpool the doesn’t it mean the league is good if most teams are of a level that the outcome of any particular game is unknown/hard to predict?

 

Even judging by goals per game (of which even with VAR) this year is very similar to previous seasons, doesn’t prove anything as more goals means worse defending and vice versa.

 

So unless we judge against external competition (which currently all English clubs are still in) we can’t really know for sure?

 

So really the question is; have you been guilty of casually calling this year‘s league poor and if so what justification do you have for calling it so?

Quite simply, money, for traditional footballing nations with a large population anyway.  The more money clubs have to spend the greater the players they can attract to the league which in turn enhances the product.

 

What makes a 'competitive league' is maybe the more pertinent question.  Just because Liverpool and the franchise are a good bit better than the rest of the league doesn't detract from how good a league it is in terms of quality, it just detracts from the competitiveness of it.  I don't consider good and competitive to be the same thing, it can be one the other or indeed both.

 

I don't really get the bit about people referring to it as a poor league though, from where I'm standing it's widely considered to be the best league in the world.

Edited by henrik_62

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17 hours ago, Phube said:

I’m not sure if this has been discussed before but I’m getting more and more annoyed with all Premier League discussion shows/podcasts when without fail someone will mention that this is a poor league. The main rational for this is because apart from Liverpool and Norwich, every one can seem to lose at any point to anyone else.


Now I don’t care if it is currently a ‘poor’ league we’re during 3rd in or not, it’s the justification for calling it a poor league that confuses/annoys me. 
 

How do you judge the health of a league in isolation? Why is the league poor because Watford can beat Man U, but then Man U can beat Man City? Ignoring Liverpool the doesn’t it mean the league is good if most teams are of a level that the outcome of any particular game is unknown/hard to predict?

 

Even judging by goals per game (of which even with VAR) this year is very similar to previous seasons, doesn’t prove anything as more goals means worse defending and vice versa.

 

So unless we judge against external competition (which currently all English clubs are still in) we can’t really know for sure?

 

So really the question is; have you been guilty of casually calling this year‘s league poor and if so what justification do you have for calling it so?

Depends what you mean by the league is poor. It is uncompetitive but I think the standard is as high as ever.

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The fact that Liverpool have run away with the league this season does not mean that it is a poor league. Quite the reverse in my opinion. The simple fact that there are so few points between 5th and 14th shows just how competitive it has been this year. With the exception of Liverpool, almost everyone has taken points from each other which shows the gap between the haves and have nots is slowly closing, which can only make the league more competitive. When the media try to convince us that the standards are dropping because their "darlings" that they keep telling us are the "big six" are in transition/playing poorly what they are conveniently ignoring is the fact that the rest are getting better, and no longer have to bow to these clubs when it comes to stealing their best players etc.

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2 hours ago, ScouseFox said:

tbf the one thing we have as an advantage over the french league is that at least when liverpool get 100 points we can point to the fact they are the world champions, when psg were/are getting a similar number of points they were getting knocked out in the round of 16 every year. 

True, but for some context Napoli have taken more points off Liverpool this season than the entire Premier League. I'm not for one second claiming Ligue 1 is stronger than this league as it isn't, but it's funny seeing the tables turn a bit and the logic seemingly not applying anymore.

 

I think this league nowadays just has too many walkover sides and I think as well a lot of the bigger clubs aren't in good shape.

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I don't think it's a poor league, I just think some of the big clubs are shit. Some of the mid/lower table teams a poor too but that doesn't take away from the good sides (Liverpool, Man City, us, Wolves). Every league will be like this. I don't believe in "transitions" really, they are just poor teams but the media won't admit it if it's a big team. Southend sit second bottom of League 1 and have changed managers, people don't say they are "in transition" they just call them a poor side like they are. Chelsea have already lost about 8 times this season, this is the same group of players (apart from Hazard) that finished third last season, won the Europa league and played in a domestic cup final. Therefore they've got worse. Media will back Lampard up, probably because he's English, but a better/experienced manager wouldn't have dropped points against Sheffield United and Bournemouth at home, even with the young side it is.

 

Liverpool are just too good. They are World Champions and current holders of the Champions League. If they get past Atletico I can see them getting to at least the semi's again. When Man City won the league by 100 points (and lets not forget they finished about 20 points clear of 2nd that season) they were praised and people were calling them, not only one of the best PL teams ever, but one of the best teams of all time. But now Liverpool are cruising it people are doubting the quality of the league. For me Liverpool are better given they won the Champions League, okay not in the same season but in the same "period".

 

I've been critical of the PL but over the past 2 or 3 years but at the minute I can't knock it given over the past 20 months we've seen Chelsea and Arsenal reach the Europa League final, Spurs get to the CL final and Liverpool get to 2 (including winning one) CL finals as well.

 

But on the flip side the money spent is ridiculous. Villa spending like they have, granted they did need half a side when they come up, and Fulham having done so to. But even our second division "bigger clubs" spend to try and get up, look at the likes of Wednesday, Forest and Middlesbrough.

Edited by Fox92

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One team cannot win every league game but 1 without the rest of the league's standard dropping. I think that is what pundits mean when they say the league is poor this year. And before someone says that Liverpool are just really good, have a look at how they've been challenged in Europe this year. They aren't some godly team of unbeatable men. 

 

We've been in fairly mid table form for two months now but are still comfortably in third. That's also fairly demonstrative in and of itself.

 

That said, this season has been fantastic fun and incredibly competitive if you take away Liverpool. Southampton could get Europe and I would be completely unsurprised. If we're really lucky, Arsenal will finish where they are to and Aubameyang will leave them, crippling them for several more seasons.

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16 hours ago, turkish14 said:

It will end though... 

 

we will have closer seasons amongst the top 4-6, no doubt about it.

 

the league currently, bar Liverpool, has been incredibly competitive. I’d be amazed if it’s this close next year.

 

also you highlight collective financial dominance across the rest of the world. But you look at other leagues (bundesliga for example) that I feel will perform better than our representatives in this years CL. Doesn’t always but success 

 

 

 

... it is rather strange that the stats do not reflect what I see in respect of the league!! 

  Looking at the games being played, the quality is not what it used to be. Like most sports, Cricket, Tennis and Rugby we are nowhere near the quality of past teams. 

  We have the debate of the title winning team versus the present team and I believe that the title winning team would win hands down. Although we have been good on the eye, we are fragile and like most present teams, mentally weak. 

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VAR is making it into a poor league. 

 

The fact that anyone can beat anyone (excluding Liverpool this season) in this league makes it more competitive, not poorer. It's because the so called 'top 6' are struggling and not so 'top 6' are succeeding, like us and Sheffield United, that people think it's a 'poor league'. I think that's disrespectful to those teams that are pushing the boundaries. 

Edited by fox_favourite

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Sick of being told that its a poor league each time we have a great Premier League season.

 

If Spurs, Arsenal, Man United and Chelsea cant finish above us with their budgets, squads and youth players then its down to poor management. Simple as that.

 

The idea that Manchester United are "in transition" and slowly building a side makes me laugh. 2nd biggest wage budget in the world an hundreds upon hundreds of millions thrown at it. Its a complete failure. 

 

We are 3rd because we have the 3rd best team. We aren't here to make up the numbers and feed the big teams because their scouting is shit.

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