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2 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

I would be very happy if they signed Havertz. I've a conspiracy theory that Lampard has no idea what he's doing with these signings. How on earth is he going to fit Pulisic, Havertz, Ziyech and Werner into a balanced side, I don't understand. Whilst Havertz is a fairly flexible player, he has a very low work rate, so playing him as an 8 wouldn't work too well in the PL I don't think. His definite best position is second striker, also Werner's best position, who by the way has thought his career struggled as a single striker as his holdup play is notoriously poor, he becomes easy to mark out the game.

 

Already you have two players who like to play in a very similar position who have specific attributes which means you have to tailor your formation and system to them. Add in Ziyech. He has the workrate to succeed in the PL, but is a winger who likes to float inside to the 10 position, like a budget Messi, which could be a problem, as that is the zone where Havertz likes to play. In addition, potentially his only real weakness is how often he loses the ball - you would need a strong midfield and right back to cover for that, without considering that Havertz has such a low defensive workrate which will compound that workload. To add to this, Kanté has struggled a lot with injuries recently, which would leave the midfield very light of solid defensive presence.

 

Lampard has said he doesn't like playing with two strikers, which means if he does play Werner by himself there will probably be issues in his buildup. If this weren't the case, he could rip off Nagelsmann's 4-2-2-2 with 

 

__________Werner Giroud

__Pulisic_________________Ziyech

__________Kovacic Kanté

Azpilicueta Rudiger Zouma James

 

Which would probably work, although it would leave their theoretical record signing on the bench lol. But he says he doesn't want to play two strikers, so he would be left with something like

 

_______Pulisic Werner Ziyech

______Havertz Kovacic Kanté

Azpilicueta Rudiger Zouma James

 

That midfield looks so easy to overrun, even with Kanté fit (which he may not be too often if he continues to struggle with injuries). Werner and Ziyech would lose lots of balls, leaving them with a lot of work, and Havertz would be so easy to push out of the game. You could try a 4-2-3-1, but it would leave Havertz, Ziyech and Werner all trying to play in the same area.

 

Of course, Lampard may have some wizard plan that will mould all these players into the perfect fits for his system. And I will end up with egg on my face. But just the same, I hope they sign Havertz...

 

 

Sorry, I presume you're joking here? With all due respect, are you saying you *want* them to sign one of the most talented young players in the world, to go alongside the others they've already got? Come on. I think that midfield will be far from easy to overrun, and they'd probably go 4-2-3-1 anyway with Havertz at 10.

 

Look, I dislike them as much as anyone else, but thinking they're going to have issues integrating players of that quality, alongside Chilwell at LB (and new CB & GK if reports are to be believed) is delusional. Pretty clear they're going to be a huge threat next season. The key is how we improve and move forward, including spending the BC money well.

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Just now, David R said:

Sorry, I presume you're joking here? With all due respect, are you saying you *want* them to sign one of the most talented young players in the world, to go alongside the others they've already got? Come on. I think that midfield will be far from easy to overrun, and they'd probably go 4-2-3-1 anyway with Havertz at 10.

 

Look, I dislike them as much as anyone else, but thinking they're going to have issues integrating players of that quality, alongside Chilwell at LB (and new CB & GK if reports are to be believed) is delusional. Pretty clear they're going to be a huge threat next season. The key is how we improve and move forward, including spending the BC money well.

Maybe saying I want them to sign him is wrong, but I really don't think he'll be integrated that well. Having seen him play a few times, he's clearly in the Top 5 of the best young talents the Bundesliga has to offer, but he has a weird skillset. Low, almost Ozil-esque workrate, with fantastic goal threat, movement, and technical skill, but his creativity apart from his long balls is actually not fantastic. He's a luxury player, a very capable second striker though. Werner, however, is in my opinion the 2nd best second striker in the world (behind Griezmann), which means playing Havertz outside his best position, or Werner out of his best position. 

 

Werner leading the line is not ideal, as seen all throughout his career. So it leaves him with a lot of very good players that don't really fit together. It's an actual problem, as evidenced best by Barcelona this season.

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8 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Maybe saying I want them to sign him is wrong, but I really don't think he'll be integrated that well. Having seen him play a few times, he's clearly in the Top 5 of the best young talents the Bundesliga has to offer, but he has a weird skillset. Low, almost Ozil-esque workrate, with fantastic goal threat, movement, and technical skill, but his creativity apart from his long balls is actually not fantastic. He's a luxury player, a very capable second striker though. Werner, however, is in my opinion the 2nd best second striker in the world (behind Griezmann), which means playing Havertz outside his best position, or Werner out of his best position. 

 

Werner leading the line is not ideal, as seen all throughout his career. So it leaves him with a lot of very good players that don't really fit together. It's an actual problem, as evidenced best by Barcelona this season.

..scoutedftbl.com list the foundation of his game is his off-ball ability!!!

Havertz looks amazing, seems to put the team ethics ahead of himself, mature and such a great finisher.

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13 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

 

I think you're both missing my point a little. If Chilwell takes the ball from the halfway line and dribbles down the sideline, moving our possession 20 metres forwards, even when he ends the move with an annoyingly tame pass to Maddison/Barnes/whoever is closest to him, we are in a better position than we were before. We don't have to pass through their whole team, we've already made some incision into their defensive block. That has been a useful skill this season, even if it obviously is extremely annoying and unsatisfying that he can't finish the attacking move himself once he gets into these positions of danger.

For me anything over £40m is a good deal.  
 

Look at your last sentence. You are not describing an asset to the team, and you put it well. He’s got an engine and that’s it.
 

Chilwell is poor on the ball and cannot defend at the high level which is where we are; and as for the claim he’s still only young, he has had plenty of time to get these things right and he hasn’t. If he can’t do the basics now he never will. If we got £60m we’d be taking the piss, let alone anything higher. Young players in Europe better for us at half the price we would sell him for. 
 

Gerrimout!!!

Edited by NotTheMarketLeader
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31 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Maybe saying I want them to sign him is wrong, but I really don't think he'll be integrated that well. Having seen him play a few times, he's clearly in the Top 5 of the best young talents the Bundesliga has to offer, but he has a weird skillset. Low, almost Ozil-esque workrate, with fantastic goal threat, movement, and technical skill, but his creativity apart from his long balls is actually not fantastic. He's a luxury player, a very capable second striker though. Werner, however, is in my opinion the 2nd best second striker in the world (behind Griezmann), which means playing Havertz outside his best position, or Werner out of his best position. 

 

Werner leading the line is not ideal, as seen all throughout his career. So it leaves him with a lot of very good players that don't really fit together. It's an actual problem, as evidenced best by Barcelona this season.

Fair enough, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I've watched a fair bit of Havertz, and I honestly think he has everything. He's got a very high workrate IMO, and his creativity is ridiculous for his age (which the stats support). Come the end of the season, I think people will be talking about him in the KdB sort of bracket. You can't be a 'luxury player' at a team like Leverkusen, they just don't have the players around him to allow that, so he's been pretty much carrying them this season. 

 

Respect your opinion of Werner, but he led the line for RB very often, and scored a shed load of goals (and in CL), so I'd argue that he'll fit perfectly into their system. Barcelona also isn't a particularly fair comparison either, as that's due to years of awful recruitment, and over reliance on Messi. I think Chelsea (annoyingly) are really building something atm, so we're going to need to really step up our own recruitment activities if we are to compete. It'll be tough, but I believe we can.

 

One last thing - Griezmann the best striker in the world?! Really? ;-)

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50 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Maybe saying I want them to sign him is wrong, but I really don't think he'll be integrated that well. Having seen him play a few times, he's clearly in the Top 5 of the best young talents the Bundesliga has to offer, but he has a weird skillset. Low, almost Ozil-esque workrate, with fantastic goal threat, movement, and technical skill, but his creativity apart from his long balls is actually not fantastic. He's a luxury player, a very capable second striker though. Werner, however, is in my opinion the 2nd best second striker in the world (behind Griezmann), which means playing Havertz outside his best position, or Werner out of his best position. 

 

Werner leading the line is not ideal, as seen all throughout his career. So it leaves him with a lot of very good players that don't really fit together. It's an actual problem, as evidenced best by Barcelona this season.

Spot on. Lots of English football fans seem to think that Havertz is like a goalscoring, Maddison/Ozil type when in reality he's closer to Dele Alli in terms of skill set. Maybe Lampard see's some similarities between himself and Havertz and that's why he's keen to work with him, but have to agree, don't see how it's all going to fit/work, they need a proper number 6 to hold it together (Not Kante, someone who sits like Wilf or Rice)

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1 hour ago, sacreblueits442 said:

..scoutedftbl.com list the foundation of his game is his off-ball ability!!!

Havertz looks amazing, seems to put the team ethics ahead of himself, mature and such a great finisher.

Off-ball ability being movement probably. I never saw him press particularly much when I watched, and from what I've heard from other fans I've talked to it's not a controversial view.

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1 hour ago, David R said:

Fair enough, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I've watched a fair bit of Havertz, and I honestly think he has everything. He's got a very high workrate IMO, and his creativity is ridiculous for his age (which the stats support). Come the end of the season, I think people will be talking about him in the KdB sort of bracket. You can't be a 'luxury player' at a team like Leverkusen, they just don't have the players around him to allow that, so he's been pretty much carrying them this season. 

 

Respect your opinion of Werner, but he led the line for RB very often, and scored a shed load of goals (and in CL), so I'd argue that he'll fit perfectly into their system. Barcelona also isn't a particularly fair comparison either, as that's due to years of awful recruitment, and over reliance on Messi. I think Chelsea (annoyingly) are really building something atm, so we're going to need to really step up our own recruitment activities if we are to compete. It'll be tough, but I believe we can.

 

One last thing - Griezmann the best striker in the world?! Really? ;-)

Griezmann the best *second* striker, as in a forward to play off the main striker. In that position, I think he's the best in the world. Werner arguably second. The thing with both, although I was mainly making the point about Werner, is that they are much, much better with a strike partner.

 

That's what I was trying to say about Werner, he's always been much, much better with Poulsen or some other striker to play up front with. The only time recently he's played by himself up top was with Germany in 2018, where he was anonymous and shifted out to the wing. This is why I'm skeptical of his signing. Lampard is always saying he wants to play with one striker and then wingers. 

 

I'll defer to your opinion on Havertz, I've watched him 4 times, so I'm no expert. I still have doubts on him though.

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1 hour ago, David R said:

Fair enough, I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I've watched a fair bit of Havertz, and I honestly think he has everything. He's got a very high workrate IMO, and his creativity is ridiculous for his age (which the stats support). Come the end of the season, I think people will be talking about him in the KdB sort of bracket. You can't be a 'luxury player' at a team like Leverkusen, they just don't have the players around him to allow that, so he's been pretty much carrying them this season. 

 

Respect your opinion of Werner, but he led the line for RB very often, and scored a shed load of goals (and in CL), so I'd argue that he'll fit perfectly into their system. Barcelona also isn't a particularly fair comparison either, as that's due to years of awful recruitment, and over reliance on Messi. I think Chelsea (annoyingly) are really building something atm, so we're going to need to really step up our own recruitment activities if we are to compete. It'll be tough, but I believe we can.

 

One last thing - Griezmann the best striker in the world?! Really? ;-)

I personally don't foresee Havertz being in the KDB category come the end of next season, he's been shifted out wide right a few times this season to gain space and be a bit more effective, players like De Bruyne don't have to do that because they're better than any player on the pitch in that central position. 

 

That's not disregarding Havertz talent, but as I previously said, he reminds me a lot more of Dele Alli/Thomas Muller than someone who will be the main guy running the team, like De Bruyne. An extremely efficient goalscorer but you need other components around him at this current moment in time, maybe things will change in that regard in the next 5-10 years as he's still very young.

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9 minutes ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Would you rather read another 108 pages about how Ben Chilwell hasn't left yet? lol

Best option would be to suspend the thread and re-open when anything credible happens!

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So my gf Dad is an academy coach and Scout for Chelsea. I tried to talk to him last night so i had some juicy info to post on here. Sadly i didn't get it. He confirmed they want Chilwell. Asked him when it would happen but he sort of shrugged and said he's a lot of money. Apparently they've been looking at Tarkowski as well for 40m but someone in the meeting dismissed him as not being a top 6 player. and said he'd be better suited to a 'Spurs' or a 'Leicester' that made me laugh.

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Some on here would like to kidnap the lad , drive down to London , dump him at Stamford Bridge and scream " Where's the money " . Me, I would prefer it if he stays. Our priority is a co-striker with Vardy. 15 to 20 goals from Vardy , 15 from the new guy and we will be top six again.

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Personally I don't think chelsea will pay the money. They are haggling to death over Havertz and I think they are getting to the point of overspending? If he was such a top target I think they would be further along than where they are at the moment which is apparently not very far....the new season is drawing closer and I'm sure most teams would want their "big buys" in situ to join the team for training asap.

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17 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

 

I think you're both missing my point a little. If Chilwell takes the ball from the halfway line and dribbles down the sideline, moving our possession 20 metres forwards, even when he ends the move with an annoyingly tame pass to Maddison/Barnes/whoever is closest to him, we are in a better position than we were before. We don't have to pass through their whole team, we've already made some incision into their defensive block. That has been a useful skill this season, even if it obviously is extremely annoying and unsatisfying that he can't finish the attacking move himself once he gets into these positions of danger.

Haven’t you just described a basic attribute that every full back in the premier league would have in their locker? Bringing the ball forwards and passing it on in from a more advanced position? 

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22 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

 

Shit lads, Sky have managed not to photoshop our player into a Big 6 shirt. 

They havent but the discussion topic of the post is disrespectful, he isnt transfer listed and it seems to be an attack on the club for the price tag we put on him.

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6 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

They havent but the discussion topic of the post is disrespectful, he isnt transfer listed and it seems to be an attack on the club for the price tag we put on him.

It's also just stirring up trouble as they know people will comment negatively about the price🙄

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4 hours ago, Nicolo Barella said:

Griezmann the best *second* striker, as in a forward to play off the main striker. In that position, I think he's the best in the world. Werner arguably second. The thing with both, although I was mainly making the point about Werner, is that they are much, much better with a strike partner.

 

That's what I was trying to say about Werner, he's always been much, much better with Poulsen or some other striker to play up front with. The only time recently he's played by himself up top was with Germany in 2018, where he was anonymous and shifted out to the wing. This is why I'm skeptical of his signing. Lampard is always saying he wants to play with one striker and then wingers. 

 

I'll defer to your opinion on Havertz, I've watched him 4 times, so I'm no expert. I still have doubts on him though.


Dybala is as good as either of those two. I see him as a forward rather than an out and out 9. 

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Where are Chelsea getting all this money from? If they sign chilly and Hertz, that will be over 200m spent won’t it?

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