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9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I wonder who did this and what the consequences will be......

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-55105934

 

"Iran's most senior nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh has been assassinated near the capital Tehran, the country's defence ministry has confirmed. 

Fakhrizadeh died in hospital after an attack in Absard, in Damavand county. Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, has condemned the killing "as an act of state terror".

Western intelligence agencies view Fakhrizadeh as being behind Iran's secret nuclear weapons programme. He was reportedly described as the "father of the Iranian bomb" by diplomats".

Well interestingly Netanyahu was is Saudi last week on a diplomatic trip and Pompeo also in the Middle East over the last week or so.... 

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9 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

I wonder who did this and what the consequences will be......

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-55105934

 

"Iran's most senior nuclear scientist Mohsen Fakhrizadeh has been assassinated near the capital Tehran, the country's defence ministry has confirmed. 

Fakhrizadeh died in hospital after an attack in Absard, in Damavand county. Iran's Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, has condemned the killing "as an act of state terror".

Western intelligence agencies view Fakhrizadeh as being behind Iran's secret nuclear weapons programme. He was reportedly described as the "father of the Iranian bomb" by diplomats".

 

That has Mossad written all over it.

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37 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Imagine being so gammon that you think attention being called to racial inequalities is the same thing as causing tension

Yes imagine, but the fact is the blm is an American movement where there is real racial tension and inequalities. I think the majority of people in this country are not really bothered if someone is black or white and if you came up to me in the street and said black lives matter my first response would be, i never said they didn't matter, but then i'd be thinking hang on, what's he/she having a pop at me for, am i being accused of being racist for no reason,  and you can see where that line of thinking goes, and consequently tension has been created from what could be perceived as quite an aggressive statement to someone that's not particularly bothered what colour someone's skin is .  The blm has basically took this country backwards 20 years because it's time that fixes everything in a fairly tolerant country.

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24 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Yes imagine, but the fact is the blm is an American movement where there is real racial tension and inequalities. I think the majority of people in this country are not really bothered if someone is black or white and if you came up to me in the street and said black lives matter my first response would be, i never said they didn't matter, but then i'd be thinking hang on, what's he/she having a pop at me for, am i being accused of being racist for no reason,  and you can see where that line of thinking goes, and consequently tension has been created from what could be perceived as quite an aggressive statement to someone that's not particularly bothered what colour someone's skin is .  The blm has basically took this country backwards 20 years because it's time that fixes everything in a fairly tolerant country.

I think this is the problem. Has something like that randomly happened to you? Has it happened to anyone? Or are we getting defensive and casting aspersions on an entire movement for no reason?

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3 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

I think this is the problem. Has something like that randomly happened to you? Has it happened to anyone? Or are we getting defensive and casting aspersions on an entire movement for no reason?

Probably, but, i personally thought the problems we had with racism in the UK, especially in the 70's and 80's, when i was young, were disappearing. I don't see gangs of skinheads going out p**i bashing anymore, i don't hear racist chanting at football matches anymore, i don't hear coming over here and taking our jobs stuff anymore,  that was all stuff of the past. What i do see, especially in sport, is equality. What Leicester fan seriously gives a shit about the colour of Wes Morgan skin, you don't see the colour, you see the player, and i think, on the whole, most people in the UK think the same.

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18 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Probably, but, i personally thought the problems we had with racism in the UK, especially in the 70's and 80's, when i was young, were disappearing. I don't see gangs of skinheads going out p**i bashing anymore, i don't hear racist chanting at football matches anymore, i don't hear coming over here and taking our jobs stuff anymore,  that was all stuff of the past. What i do see, especially in sport, is equality. What Leicester fan seriously gives a shit about the colour of Wes Morgan skin, you don't see the colour, you see the player, and i think, on the whole, most people in the UK think the same.

But this is precisely the problem. Overt racism is on its heels, but a darker insidious secret racism proliferates and grows unfortunately. It is excused by Trump and his ilk and we must ensure the spotlight on such behaviour is not lessened any time soon.

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2 hours ago, Carl the Llama said:

Imagine being so gammon that you think attention being called to racial inequalities is the same thing as causing tension


The movement brought it on itself, ultimately. I agree with some of the issues brought up but then you had videos of big crowds shouting ‘hands up don’t shoot’ at unarmed policemen (as is typical) and ‘defund the police’ when the unified stance from the left is that the Tories have been UNDERfunding the police for decades. 
 

The whole thing reeked of Americanisation, a lot saw the hype over the pond and wanted to recreate that over here with little thought of what actually applies to our situation, outside of the Bristol Colston issue. Too many bad takes from extremist gobs getting airtime because otherwise there was little direction. 
 

In general I agree broadly with you Carl, but calling this reaction ‘gammon’ dismisses a lot of issues and own goals that BLM U.K. created for itself from the get go. Having to box up statues of national heroes, no matter their history, was bad optics and what a lot of people took away from this over any actual racial issues in this country.

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24 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Probably, but, i personally thought the problems we had with racism in the UK, especially in the 70's and 80's, when i was young, were disappearing. I don't see gangs of skinheads going out p**i bashing anymore, i don't hear racist chanting at football matches anymore, i don't hear coming over here and taking our jobs stuff anymore,  that was all stuff of the past. What i do see, especially in sport, is equality. What Leicester fan seriously gives a shit about the colour of Wes Morgan skin, you don't see the colour, you see the player, and i think, on the whole, most people in the UK think the same.


I’ve heard that chanting and the occasional shout down the football up to lockdown unfortunately, and I’ve heard the latter from family and down the pub. It wasn’t that long ago someone came on here and queried how successful the vaccine would be with ‘all these illegals running around refusing to get one’. 
 

From my experience, it’s less in the public eye but there’s still, as @Dahnsouff put it, an insidious presence that acts more of an undercurrent, and it’s a lot harder to challenge and combat than overt racism.

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2 minutes ago, Dahnsouff said:

But this is precisely the problem. Overt racism is on its heels, but a darker insidious secret racism proliferates and grows unfortunately. It is excused by Trump and his ilk and we must ensure the spotlight on such behaviour is not lessened any time soon.

Why bring Trump into it?  America's racist problem is not our problem in the same way that America's gun problem and consequently their high murder rate which leads to gang warfare, leading to heavy their handed police tactics, which ultimately  becomes one of the reasons they have racial problems. The uncontrolled use of guns in America is probably the underlying reason for all their other social problems.

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13 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Why bring Trump into it?  America's racist problem is not our problem in the same way that America's gun problem and consequently their high murder rate which leads to gang warfare, leading to heavy their handed police tactics, which ultimately  becomes one of the reasons they have racial problems. The uncontrolled use of guns in America is probably the underlying reason for all their other social problems.

It was an example, it plays to the minds of those who are already on this path, albeit in a more reticent manner.

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33 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

The problem is the people who are racist aren't going to change. What does "racial tensions" even mean? 

Would tend to agree, racism is not going to be fixed in a single, maybe even two, three generations. Peoples opinions will change over time as acceptance becomes normalised. Not that we should not push for more rapid change of course!

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1 hour ago, LiberalFox said:

The problem is the people who are racist aren't going to change. What does "racial tensions" even mean? 

Very true in most cases I’d imagine. Over the years though there’s much less of it and thankfully so. You’ll never completely stop it, but we’ve come a long way in the last 50 years. 

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6 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Interesting that as many as 55% think BLM increased racial tensions - and 44% of ethnic minorities thought the same.....with the proviso that no info is quoted about precise question, sample size etc.

 

Doesn't mean that anyone should "pipe down" about inequalities. But might suggest that organisations raising such inequalities should be a bit careful about how they do it, so as not to alienate potential support and exacerbate underlying hostility.

Particularly so if, as the article suggests, other research shows there has been an increase in racism towards black and Chinese people over the past year (though this isn't linked to BLM protests & might have other causes).

4 hours ago, Finnaldo said:


The movement brought it on itself, ultimately. I agree with some of the issues brought up but then you had videos of big crowds shouting ‘hands up don’t shoot’ at unarmed policemen (as is typical) and ‘defund the police’ when the unified stance from the left is that the Tories have been UNDERfunding the police for decades. 
 

The whole thing reeked of Americanisation, a lot saw the hype over the pond and wanted to recreate that over here with little thought of what actually applies to our situation, outside of the Bristol Colston issue. Too many bad takes from extremist gobs getting airtime because otherwise there was little direction. 
 

In general I agree broadly with you Carl, but calling this reaction ‘gammon’ dismisses a lot of issues and own goals that BLM U.K. created for itself from the get go. Having to box up statues of national heroes, no matter their history, was bad optics and what a lot of people took away from this over any actual racial issues in this country.

Fair points both of you, I probably have been a little uncharitable there, the whole thing's just incredibly frustrating, what a stupid missed opportunity.

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David Prowse, better known as Darth Vader, sadly passed away two days ago at the age of 85  ...  apparently the 6’6” ex body builder who was well liked on set was a bit peeved that his character had been given a voice over by James Earl Jones and only found out when he watched the film.  His soft unthreatening Bristolian burr was considered too pleasant ...   indeed,  the rest of the cast dubbed him Darth Farmer ...  :)

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On 28/11/2020 at 10:51, Carl the Llama said:

Imagine being so gammon that you think attention being called to racial inequalities is the same thing as causing tension

Imagine being so blind to the views of a majority of the population that you dismiss anything you don;t like as gammon.  Surely even you can see that the BLM movement is doing a lot more than drawing attention to racial inequalities?  And that a lot of people find it a either a turn off to those issues or as an affront to themselves?  Critical race theory is divisive nasty nonsense that has little to with race and a lot to do with creating artificial battle lines to break our societies.

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1 hour ago, Jon the Hat said:

Imagine being so blind to the views of a majority of the population that you dismiss anything you don;t like as gammon.  Surely even you can see that the BLM movement is doing a lot more than drawing attention to racial inequalities?  And that a lot of people find it a either a turn off to those issues or as an affront to themselves?  Critical race theory is divisive nasty nonsense that has little to with race and a lot to do with creating artificial battle lines to break our societies.

Read the rest of the thread instead of getting yourself off to a little rage spam.

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