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The Politics Thread 2020

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10 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I don’t doubt there are strategic plans in place and some of those may involve the abandonment of the plant but I find it amusing that people on here that are so against misinformation and fake news are happy to spread such idle gossip as fact.

They might say they wish brexit to be a success but you can sense that they cant wait for facts before saying I told so.

They won't make any decisions until the deal/no deal question has been answered. Ain't gonna shift a multi-billion quid investment out of the country on a "could happen". The target still is, and always has been, to get a deal in place before New year. Trouble is people don't understand that the vast majority of time sensitive deals happen when time is running short. 

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Just now, Voll Blau said:

Yep. If you're going to stand by an argument on the grounds it's more rooted in fact than the other side's, then you need to be damned sure your facts are always straight. Sadly we've become a society that doesn't place enough emphasis on fact-checking, and politicians of all colours have sought to exploit that in recent years to the extent where our national discourse has been hugely damaged as a result.

We are all guilty of letting things get in the way of facts at times and brexit is a massively emotive subject. Which is why it’s even more important to absolutely certain.

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17 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels.

Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no?

What constitutes a success for Brexit? I see mostly downsides to it, so I feel that were Brexit to 'fail' (i.e. we stay closely aligned to the EU) it would generally be a good thing for people in the UK. 
If it succeeds and we make a clean break, as lots of true believers want, it would make the eventual breakup of the UK quite likely and would probably lead to job losses.

 

It's kind of like communism. 

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1 hour ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

The amount of people who want Brexit to fail so they can say "Told You So" is disturbing on various levels.

Surely we should want to make the best of it because that helps the country, no?

You can do both. 

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19 minutes ago, Nick said:

I agree with this.

 

But it's just so depressing to see what this government are doing with the opportunity to make it look anything like well... an opportunity.

 

I accepted the decision and wanted to get behind it.

 

But it's not only an embarrassing shambles, its being made more divisive and lacking in integrity with each passing day.

 

If it wasn't for the virus masking the news cycle, I do wonder if the government would be being held to a higher account.

 

I'm finding the handling of the whole fiasco deeply saddening.

I can’t disagree with you on this, my positive views on brexit are well documented. However it is certainly coming thick and fast and I worry it was a massive error to not negotiate a longer transition period when the pandemic struck and it was offered.

Confidence in this government is evaporating fast and the reactive nature to the way they deal with problems or criticism is frightening.

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where we are is predictable - in the hands of the European nations - they will either take pity on us and compromise to get a deal of sorts done or they will leave us to stew in our own mess - (cos that's what it will be for a period - perhaps quite a period). 

 

we are fortunate that the pandemic has concentrated euro leaders minds that they can ill afford a no deal ….. without that they may well have already walked away

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No-deal Brexit would cost UK car industry £55bn, says analysis

The UK automotive sector risks losing £55bn in manufacturing value within five years in the event of a no-deal Brexit, according to new industry analysis.

British car production could drop below 1m cars a year if there is no deal, compared with more than 1.3m in 2019, because tariffs would make large parts of the UK business unviable, said forecasts commissioned by the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, the industry lobby group.

The car industry has endured a difficult year, as the coronavirus pandemic has forced the temporary closure of every factory in Europe and reduced demand for new cars. At the same time, European car companies spent £54bn last year on new electric car technologies to meet tightening carbon dioxide emissions rules.

 

Trade negotiations between the UK and EU have still not reached a conclusion, with little more than a month to go until the end of the Brexit transition period on 31 December. EU ambassadors have been told a deal is close to being finalised, but there is still a risk of talks falling through.

The car industry has been outspoken in its opposition to a no-deal Brexit, which would result in 10% tariffs being applied to their products overnight, adding £1,900 to the average cost of a car imported from the EU.

Industry executives have warned that a no-deal Brexit would jeopardise the future of UK plants. PSA Group has said it will only build its new Vauxhall Astra in the UK if there is a trade deal, while Nissan has said the business model of its Sunderland plant – the largest car factory in the UK – would be destroyed.

 

Nissan’s chief operating officer, Ashwani Gupta, last week reiterated that “obviously our UK business will not be sustainable” if there were no deal, in an interview with Reuters. However, the Japanese carmaker on Monday denied a report in German media that a decision to close the plant had already been made.

All of the UK’s large car manufacturers have foreign owners. The presence of Japanese and other European carmakers in the UK was based in large part on easy access to Europe’s single market, meaning that the industry sees any barriers to trade as damaging. The SMMT study, carried out by consultancy Auto Analysis, found that even a “bare bones” trade deal would cost the industry £14.1bn.

George Gillespie, the SMMT’s president and the executive chairman of Japanese-owned car testing company Horiba Mira, said: “We need a future trading relationship that works for automotive. We’ve already spent nigh on £1bn preparing for the unknown of Brexit and lost 28 times that to Covid. Let us not also be left counting the cost of tariffs, especially not by accident.”

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/nov/24/no-deal-brexit-uk-car-industry-tariffs-smmt

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I only supported remain because it was the sensible thing to do, not because I have a deep love of supranational bureaucracy. What has happened is entirely predictable. Let's be honest if it was *really* unpopular (like 80%+ strongly against) it could still be reversed. Nobody really wants it. The EU doesn't, Johnson is only pro-Brexit for reasons of self interest. 

 

It is ironic though, a populist government seizing power promising to return power to the people, breaking international agreements and lowering our status and reputation as a place to trade freely without government interference. Maybe Corbyn actually was right when he said he'd won the argument.

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This is the one of the most incompetent things I have ever seen.  On so many levels.  It's a huge number of people, and an even bigger proportion of the black community.  Morally, politically just an obvious and giant misjudgement.  Amber Rudd quitting was a great example of the minister taking the fall for an institution which then continues on much as before.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55065061

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20 hours ago, Nick said:

I agree with this.

 

But it's just so depressing to see what this government are doing with the opportunity to make it look anything like well... an opportunity.

 

I accepted the decision and wanted to get behind it.

 

But it's not only an embarrassing shambles, its being made more divisive and lacking in integrity with each passing day.

 

If it wasn't for the virus masking the news cycle, I do wonder if the government would be being held to a higher account.

 

I'm finding the handling of the whole fiasco deeply saddening.

It is only an embarrassing shambles if you read / listen / watch the neverending coverage applauding every move the EU makes and condemning every move the UK makes.  It is such bullshit.  In reality this is pretty normal negotation with pretty normal issues remaining as the deadline approaches.  There will be a deal I have no doubt, and probably I won't like it much and you won't either, but such is the nature of compromise.

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One of the biggest drivers for the Brexit voters, in a lot I know at least, was the fact that Cameron was banging the remain drum. The public opinion of him was at an all time low - and his desire to be part of the Euro Parliament so transparent - that many voted simply because his support was perceived as a curse. 

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15 hours ago, Buce said:

I wonder how this will work in practise, will every female requiring products be sent them monthly, will they just walk into a shop & take them & will they be monitored / controlled to only take 'x' number of products or will we see, like toilet rolls, people filling baskets & hording, or are they talking about free products only when your out & about away from home - office, shop, hospitality venues, public toilets etc

 

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