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Just now, Crinklyfox said:

I'm anticipating a vaccine in months, there are several promising vaccines in Stage 3 trials.

 

 

would you be comfortable with a vaccine that has been rushed through?

Vaccines take years to develop and test for a reason.

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Just now, joachim1965 said:

would you be comfortable with a vaccine that has been rushed through?

Vaccines take years to develop and test for a reason.

Vaccines will not be rushed through, it is not in the drug company's best interest to do so, nor for the general populace.  Drug trials may be curtailed either when there is overwhelming evidence that the drug is either not effective or causes harm, or when there is overwhelming evidence that the drug is most effective and does not cause harm.  Even if this latter condition is not met, the drug trials currently in Stage 3 are likely to conclude in 2021.

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Just now, joachim1965 said:

you can go first then and let the rest of us know how you get on.

That's the thing though, I won't be going first. There are thousands of giant balled Guinea pigs all over the world that are currently going first so I get to go second. 

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19 minutes ago, Izzy said:

Covid: Is it time we learnt to live with the virus?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54228649

 

Prof Robert Dingwall, a sociologist and an adviser to the government, believes the public may well be now at the stage where it is "comfortable" with the idea that thousands will die from Covid just as they are that they die of flu.

 

He believes it is only a particular element of the public health and scientific leadership who worry about driving down the infection level and is critical of politicians for not being "brave enough" to be honest with the public that the virus will be around "forever and a day" even with a vaccine.

"Prof Sunetra Gupta says allowing young and healthy people to be exposed over the winter will be of benefit in the years to come."

Is she going to volunteer? I've seen healthy friends and family members suffer nasty long-term effects of this virus to think it's probably best not to let it pass unchecked through the population. 

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12 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

I also think that 'comfortable' is a bad choice of words, nobody should ever be comfortable with thousands of people dying, unfortunately thousands upon thousands die of numerous causes on a daily basis, it is a sad fact of life that everyone has to accept.

Good post

’Comfortable’ is a shocking word to use

People that die from it are anything but ‘comfortable’ and the systemic nature of the virus, when it really takes hold, seems very different to flu.

That said, it’s here to stay and ‘living with it’ seems to be the only way to go.

It’s highly contagious, like flu, but infection control measures DO help

It’s time the public changed how we do things. Government can put out as many dictats as they like, it’s down to people to have some common fookin sense, learn about the virus themselves and try to look after themselves to minimise the chances of contracting it

A pub full of people laffin, spluttering, slobbering, not washing their hands is imo absurd given the circumstances.

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11 minutes ago, Innovindil said:

That's the thing though, I won't be going first. There are thousands of giant balled Guinea pigs all over the world that are currently going first so I get to go second. 

would you be willing to go first?

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43 minutes ago, Crinklyfox said:

Doubtless some people may be comfortable with letting thousands die every year from Covid-19, maybe tens of thousands, worst case hundreds of thousands with our hospitals overwhelmed and the care home sector devastated, so long as it's not them that's dying.

 

Covid-19 is different to flu right now - we have an annual flu vaccine that protects the vulnerable, we don't with Covid-19.  Once we do have an effective vaccine then we could potentially live with it, until then it's not an option that many would be willing to consider.

Comfortable? I think you’ve totally misread the opinions of some posters on here, nobody is comfortable with the deaths from covid, are you “comfortable” with thousands losing their jobs and homes because that’s what will happen, I doubt very much you’re comfortable with that.

Everyone has their opinions on what the way forward is, but nobody is comfortable with what’s happening. 

 

 

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31 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

would you be comfortable with a vaccine that has been rushed through?

Vaccines take years to develop and test for a reason.

We could do without scaremongering like this.

 

Nothing about the science is being rushed. It is being developed at pace because the process has been expedited. 

 

In normal vaccine development, you don't have every big lab in the world working on a solution - but here we do. We're testing lots of different types of vaccine in parallel, in a way we wouldn't usually do.

 

In normal development, govt funded research councils choose where to allocate funds for development - and so only a few labs get to test their vaccine. To their great credit, the govt are ordering millions of the different vaccines - which gives everyone the funds to test their vaccine in parallel.

 

Scientists are also fully sharing procedures and data in a way that isn't the norm - which again had speed up the process.

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I'd be comfortable in taking the Oxford Vaccine today.

 

It's based on tried and tested vaccine technology, basically inputting the genetic code of the Coronavirus to produce spike proteins. It's already passed the safety stage. It's now just in the stage to see whether it works in wider use.

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Comfortable? I think you’ve totally misread the opinions of some posters on here, nobody is comfortable with the deaths from covid, are you “comfortable” with thousands losing their jobs and homes because that’s what will happen, I doubt very much you’re comfortable with that.

Everyone has their opinions on what the way forward is, but nobody is comfortable with what’s happening. 

 

 

Perhaps "comfortable" is the wrong word, but I might posit that there are a few people who are perhaps not all that concerned, mainly because it's likely not their head on the block if things do open up and it might be their head on the block if things don't.

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11 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Perhaps "comfortable" is the wrong word, but I might posit that there are a few people who are perhaps not all that concerned, mainly because it's likely not their head on the block if things do open up and it might be their head on the block if things don't.

Nobody's head is on the block.

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1 minute ago, Nod.E said:

Nobody's head is on the block.

Almost a million people around the world would disagree with that assertion.

 

If they could still communicate in a way that didn't require supernatural powers to understand, of course.

 

(And, for the sake of completeness, provided that such statistics are on the level.)

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13 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

Fully on board with blaming the public to an extent. The amount of people I see not wearing masks on public transport is shockingly large. I reckon there were more people not wearing masks than we wearing them on the train yesterday, and it was pretty busy. If people aren't adhering to that, they're probably not adhering to less visible measures either.

 

Of course, I don't think the government has helped with nonsense like telling people to go back to work, testing needs sorting, and the Cummings thing undermined everything but the public has got to take responsibility and, whilst there's an element of selection bias involved, from what I've seen too many aren't. If everyone does the simple things then we can avoid the worst of measures returning.

 

"It is our duty to look after ourselves and then also to help look after our neighbour and life is a reciprocal business and people have got the entitlements too much in mind without the obligations.”

 

Thing is I've observed compliance to be generally excellent, so unless anyone has any actual data on non-compliance I am hesitant to pin everything on 'the public' on the basis of the odd person's anecdote. And of course, I would expect you to apply the same principle to me.

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Managed to get a covid test last week at Glenfield drive through (my son and I were poorly and showing symptoms - negative happily) 100 car spaces with a few cars randomly dotted about self testing. After 5 minutes the next car comes in and parks right next to me! Its a covid testing site! 

 

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The messaging from Whitty and Vallance was pretty clear.

 

We're going to be managed through the winter with some more strict restrictions being turned on and off, and then the outlook looks better into Spring given the changes in the seasons, and the likelihood of at least 1 vaccine being available by then.

 

Government have probably got one more crack at not screwing up their messaging to get people to comply.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Fktf said:

We could do without scaremongering like this.

 

Nothing about the science is being rushed. It is being developed at pace because the process has been expedited. 

 

In normal vaccine development, you don't have every big lab in the world working on a solution - but here we do. We're testing lots of different types of vaccine in parallel, in a way we wouldn't usually do.

 

In normal development, govt funded research councils choose where to allocate funds for development - and so only a few labs get to test their vaccine. To their great credit, the govt are ordering millions of the different vaccines - which gives everyone the funds to test their vaccine in parallel.

 

Scientists are also fully sharing procedures and data in a way that isn't the norm - which again had speed up the process.

just watch the BBC and Sky News if you really want to see scaremongering,  being concerned about the safety of a fast tracked vaccine is hardly scaremongering. 

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1 hour ago, TheUltimateWinner said:

I'd be comfortable in taking the Oxford Vaccine today.

 

It's based on tried and tested vaccine technology, basically inputting the genetic code of the Coronavirus to produce spike proteins. It's already passed the safety stage. It's now just in the stage to see whether it works in wider use.

 

 

Well said. 

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1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Comfortable? I think you’ve totally misread the opinions of some posters on here, nobody is comfortable with the deaths from covid, are you “comfortable” with thousands losing their jobs and homes because that’s what will happen, I doubt very much you’re comfortable with that.

Everyone has their opinions on what the way forward is, but nobody is comfortable with what’s happening. 

 

 

I'm sure you're right.  I used the term 'comfortable' because that was the term used in the article that Izzy quoted which claimed that the public was comfortable with the idea that thousands would die from Covid.

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2 hours ago, Crinklyfox said:

I'm anticipating a vaccine in months, there are several promising vaccines in Stage 3 trials.

 

 

Where do you think you might be, in the que to get one? Let's say it passed on Wednesday, you should get your shot by what, week Thursday?

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37 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

just watch the BBC and Sky News if you really want to see scaremongering,  being concerned about the safety of a fast tracked vaccine is hardly scaremongering. 

I'm sorry - I think it is. The idea that fast might mean unsafe is presumably based on the idea that it has been fast tracked by cutting corners. But that's far from the truth. The science is established, and all the vaccines are passing through all the trials they would normally go through. It is not being rushed.

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