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2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

Slightly off topic, but a member of staff was off from Monday - Wednesday feeling shite, but tested negative. She came back in today and I felt fairly uncomfortable her being in. Even if it wasn't Covid, chances are she can still transmit the cold she had and any one who gets it is then off for a test etc and causing more work for others 

 

Wouldn't have been ridiculous for her to wait to return until Monday. 

Funnily enough, I can clearly recall a general attitude shift pre Covid with a colleague last January hauling himself in with a heavy cold,.playing the martyr....'look how dedicated I am'. 

 

He was roundly complained at and about and his boss have him a lecture about coming in unwell, underperforming and potentially  bringing the rest of the office down with him....I remember a the time commenting what a cultural shift from, say, 10 years prior when taking time off for a cold was seen as weak and skiving

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50 minutes ago, Paninistickers said:

Funnily enough, I can clearly recall a general attitude shift pre Covid with a colleague last January hauling himself in with a heavy cold,.playing the martyr....'look how dedicated I am'. 

 

He was roundly complained at and about and his boss have him a lecture about coming in unwell, underperforming and potentially  bringing the rest of the office down with him....I remember a the time commenting what a cultural shift from, say, 10 years prior when taking time off for a cold was seen as weak and skiving

Some People were Scared to Take Time  off even for an heavy cold....in my Experience only running into the 80s,did most bosses really start to understand,that

a guy with flu,could take a group out....The Shop floor was more macho, & some People had to Take the  shit...

IT Computer rooms,then later  offices,couldnt afford to lose a team,because of One or two,not Reporting sick...Management Teams started to be more Sympathathetic....I was..

 

Edited by fuchsntf
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13 hours ago, Sly said:

I thing the challenge is, that we need to learn to live with it and adjust accordingly. 
 

It still frustrates me that we have the people that refuse to follow rules, like wearing mask, not social distancing etc. How do we police it though?
 

I thought the government had done a great job initially, however even as a conservative, I’m skeptical now. Unfortunately they can’t control the general public, as they’re tired. I’m not convinced anyone would have done a better job. They’re dammed if they do, dammed if they don’t. They in a lose / lose situation, as by imposing restrictions, they’ll always annoy someone. 
 

 

There is people breaking the rules and also a fight between economic and social safety.  Such as LL's pushing engineer boiler tests on people who are in the vulnerable group.

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On 23/09/2020 at 18:47, Col city fan said:

Just heard something which pretty much sums this country up at the moment....

Myself and Mrs Col are away on the second week of our holiday at the East Coast

I’ve just shopped around the local, mid-range food store and was chatting with the old gal on the till

She told me it was COMPANY POLICY not to challenge anyone who came in without a mask (across the whole chain of stores)

Not just ‘avoiding it’ but literally being warned NOT to challenge (and she said for fear of abuse etc). 
I said well what’s the point in having this rule now then? With which she shrugged her shoulders 

 

Brings me back again to you can have all the bloody rules and regs in place you want but who will enforce them? In this case, a policy of non-challenge 

 Contemporary Britain in a nutshell...

Many of our laws are not enforced, an awful lot of then rely on goodwill of the population to work.

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On 23/09/2020 at 19:03, Col city fan said:

You misunderstand me

Of course I’m not advocating the gal on the till takes it upon herself to challenge Neanderthals

The point I was making is how on earth can this be enforced in any way?

Perhaps there should be enforcement officers patrolling stores?  Those who fight it, should have severe punishment which then serves as a deterrent to others.

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On 23/09/2020 at 17:17, UniFox21 said:

I just don't think closing schools for another large period is possible. That would mean they'd have lost nearly a full year of teaching, which has huge implications for decades. 

 

Edit: Even if those at older ages can learn at home via zoom etc, the younger ages need that social interaction to 'learn' how to be a 'person', how to socialise and all manner of things you indirectly learn by being at school and interacting with teachers and pupils. 

It does if there is no counter plan, but things can be changed to mitigate the problem, cancel future summer holidays, half term, apply home schooling for children with a parent that doesnt work, and for children with both parents working adapt libraries etc to classrooms so children are not all travelling to the same place in their 100s.   A year of teaching is extremely easy to recover.  We could also delay first year of teaching by a year, which would supply the staff to extend school leave date from 16 to 17.  In this country we unusually have early start school age.  Its obviously possible, but the question is will the population tolerate it.

 

I think if a proper long term plan was drawn up instead of just "send them all back", it could work.  It is about people accepting change though.

 

Bear in mind if uni's and schools were kept closed I dont think we would be having this conversation now, no talks of limiting hospitality, no curfews, I think this current sudden spike wouldnt have happened.  Closing up all these sectors and a potential new lockdown will also have implications for decades, so its basically picking one ill over the other.

Edited by Chrysalis
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2 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

It does if there is no counter plan, but things can be changed to mitigate the problem, cancel future summer holidays, half term, apply home schooling for children with a parent that doesnt work, and for children with both parents working adapt libraries etc to classrooms so children are all travelling to the same place in their 100s.   A year of teaching is extremely easy to recover.  We could also delay first year of teaching by a year, which would supply the staff to extend school leave date from 16 to 17.  In this country we unusually have early start school age.

I really disagree here. Schools struggle with numbers normally, another full school year on top would be horrendous in many establishments.

 

You just have to look at some posters here who realised home schooling was bloody tough. Education and our system in particular is very tough to just alter quickly 

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4 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

It does if there is no counter plan, but things can be changed to mitigate the problem, cancel future summer holidays, half term, apply home schooling for children with a parent that doesnt work, and for children with both parents working adapt libraries etc to classrooms so children are all travelling to the same place in their 100s.   A year of teaching is extremely easy to recover.  We could also delay first year of teaching by a year, which would supply the staff to extend school leave date from 16 to 17.  In this country we unusually have early start school age.

Where would you get the extra teachers from? Where are these libraries?

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9 minutes ago, UniFox21 said:

I really disagree here. Schools struggle with numbers normally, another full school year on top would be horrendous in many establishments.

 

You just have to look at some posters here who realised home schooling was bloody tough. Education and our system in particular is very tough to just alter quickly 

By home schooling I dont mean the parent themselves doing it all by themselves, I more meant the teacher been in contact either over phone or video conference, with the parent more in a supervising role than teaching.  It isnt ideal as normal, but its better than no schooling, and better than sendking kids home every few weeks because of a an infection in the bubble, make no mistake we dont have a normal education right now, teachers are shaking scared, and people are been sent home in their droves, so they spending lots of time at home anyway.  My local school sent home 120 children for two weeks for "one" infection.

 

You can recover a year without adding another on top, the adding on top would support recovering two years.

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18 minutes ago, Heathrow fox said:

Where would you get the extra teachers from? Where are these libraries?

I already said.  The extra year comes from the later starting year, the teachers for the new locations come from the old location, its basically just moving a classroom, like at my primary school our classrooms often got moved to temporary huts.

 

Instead of looking for reasons to avoid change we should be looking for ways to support that change and make it work in my opinion.  Sending kids back all at once has caused chaos sadly. Not just in the classrooms but also on transport.

 

My counter question is if you think this is not workable, and you was told think of an alternative plan or we have no schooling (so basically gun put to your head) what would your idea be? or do you genuinely think there is no adaption possible the system has to be rigid?

Edited by Chrysalis
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6 minutes ago, Chrysalis said:

I already said.  The extra year comes from the later starting year, the teachers for the new locations come from the old location, its basically just moving a classroom, like at my primary school our classrooms often got moved to temporary huts.

 

Instead of looking for reasons to avoid change we should be looking for ways to support that change and make it work in my opinion.  To think sending kids back is working seems balmy.  

You seem to expecting primary school trained teachers to suddenly become senior school trained teachers.Almost overnight.I’m sure with decent notice this could be achievable,but overnight?Also what becomes of the years void in further education intake?University's would go bankrupt.

 

 

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5 hours ago, String fellow said:

Reading the fairly long message above, are we to assume that Professor John Edmunds (one of the SAGE group) is an 'incognisant person regurgitating drivel' in advocating much stricter lock-down measures? 

 

Literally no idea how you've come to that

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1 hour ago, Heathrow fox said:

You seem to expecting primary school trained teachers to suddenly become senior school trained teachers.Almost overnight.I’m sure with decent notice this could be achievable,but overnight?Also what becomes of the years void in further education intake?University's would go bankrupt.

 

 

 

I am just posting an opinion, I am not expecting teachers to shift through different grades of school no, I dont think I recall posting that.

 

But to ask you, what ideas have you got, or do you think just sending everyone back with many having to keep re-isolating again and again is the way to go?

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4 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Like the majority of people are going to listen to thislol

Depends how much they care about their parent’s health 

 

I think it makes sense but especially in the case of freshers it’s v difficult on an emotional level. 
 

the closing of bars and restaurants at 10pm - it’s just stupid to say that it will make absolutely no difference. In the modelling it will absolutely make a difference re the possibility of transmissions - it’s just going it be v small!  I would have thought a system whereby you can only visit one bar or restaurant in an evening would be more sensible. that keeps any possible spread limited to one place and would surely be way more effective in reducing the R on the model than the 1 hour cut off to 10pm.

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11 hours ago, Paninistickers said:

Funnily enough, I can clearly recall a general attitude shift pre Covid with a colleague last January hauling himself in with a heavy cold,.playing the martyr....'look how dedicated I am'. 

 

He was roundly complained at and about and his boss have him a lecture about coming in unwell, underperforming and potentially  bringing the rest of the office down with him....I remember a the time commenting what a cultural shift from, say, 10 years prior when taking time off for a cold was seen as weak and skiving

It may depend on your company policy on sick pay not every one can afford to take time off of work ill, has your employer used ill health as a reason to issue a warning to an employee in the past? 

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59 minutes ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Lots of libraries have been closed due to government/council cutbacks unfortunately.

Yup modern life is shit...

No School Libraries for the normal schools,no Working estate libraries...

Even diffiult to find Town libraries...in the UK..

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9 hours ago, Kopfkino said:

 

Literally no idea how you've come to that

I'm puzzled as to why you don't understand my point. You appear to be advocating less restrictions, whilst John Edmunds, who is an expert, is advocating precisely the opposite.

 

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I nipped into my local yesterday on the way home for a "quick" pint and the biggest problem I can see for pubs like this where table service isn't the norm, is people just thinking it's a ball ache and not bothering. Particularly people like me who nip in sparingly for short periods. It was the first day and obviously they will get more organised but in the half hour I was there they were consistently having to challenge behaviour of regulars, rightly of course as that's the rules. 

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11 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Gov have long stopped listening to the science, its very doubtful the science advised the government to start opening up every industry.

It's almost like the scientists know **** all about economics and don't have to worry about the country not being completely ****ed, and are only answering medical and epidemology based questions with no political lens whatsoever.  On this basis you would ban ****ing everything. Smoking; drinking; driving; meeting other people at all.

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11 hours ago, Chrysalis said:

Perhaps there should be enforcement officers patrolling stores?  Those who fight it, should have severe punishment which then serves as a deterrent to others.

Feel free to move to China if you want to live in a police state!  FFS the death rate is miniscule and you want to hand over your freedoms.  Un ****ing believable.

Edited by Jon the Hat
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26 minutes ago, Jon the Hat said:

It's almost like the scientists know **** all about economics and don't have to worry about the country not being completely ****ed, and are only answering medical and epidemology based questions with no political lens whatsoever.  On this basis you would ban ****ing everything. Smoking; drinking; driving; meeting other people at all.

That's exactly what it is. If you ask a doctor or a scientist for an opinion anything, they're going to give one that is solely geared at being risk averse and most likely to benefit physical health.

 

If they asked for the top doctors/scientists opinions on people eating fast food or drinking, they would probably suggest bringing in limits on what people can purchase in shops or pubs/restaurants. You could easily create a terrifying agenda and have the same people in here whipped up into a frenzy.

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