Coronavirus Thread

[FoxesDeb 2,220]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

And (sorry for me repeating myself) cannot prove this to any burden of proof that such a decision would require.

But there's something on YouTube, innit….

[joachim1965 1,112]

1 minute ago, FoxesDeb said:

Do you not think that is because of the restrictions then? You don't believe the virus is still there, and if we go back to normal deaths will not increase?

spot on, but I do believe the virus is still here, it will always be here, we can't get rid of it just like you can't get rid of influenza or the common cold (coronavirus), it just isn't as prevailent as the government and media are making us believe,  pcr testing is driving this.

The deaths will increase as we go into winter but that happens every year and we don't normally bat an eyelid.

The death rate due to respiratory conditions is at the moment comparable to the previous five years.

[Finnaldo 3,160]

3 minutes ago, Nalis said:

Yeah Sweden comes up a lot of this thread as a pioneer for no restrictions but the reality is they have had restrictions, just not as many as other european countries. And a different culture to our own.

The Swedes, most importantly, seemed to have had a clear plan with a very straightforward set of rules causing no more economic damage than it had to. I appreciate the U.K. government could never have kept deaths anywhere near as low as Sweden (due to the physical and societal differences have been pointed out) or necessarily used the same plan, but we treated the whole thing as a joke to begin with, Boris shaking Covid patients hands, the dodged COBR meetings, letting the likes of Cheltenham go on. Since then, we’ve gone totally the other way and been completely reactive, and now the country is a patchwork of different rules and regs that even the PM can’t seem to keep up with. The failure to use the clean slate lockdown provided to put a well thought plan in place seems like a massive own goal now, but at least deaths seem a lot lower on this second wave on perhaps theres still time to put in a sensible, dynamic plan. 

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson 2,639]

Early reports say another 19 people have died due to coronavirus in the last 24 hours, this is from the daily mirror though 🙈

Edited 

Edited 5 October 2020 by Mark 'expert' Lawrenson

[joachim1965 1,112]

Just now, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Early reports say another 10 people have died due to coronavirus in the last 24 hours, this is from the daily mirror though 🙈

so cases are rising and deaths are falling.

[Nalis 5,096]

1 minute ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Early reports say another 10 people have died due to coronavirus in the last 24 hours, this is from the daily mirror though 🙈

I guess the most important thing for the people/government to do is not to rejoice too much when we have low weekend figures then freak out when Tuesday's figures are a lot higher, the latter of which being a permanent reaction sadly.

[yorkie1999 4,492]

12 minutes ago, joachim1965 said:

so cases are rising and deaths are falling.

Who knows? It's obvious that looking over a period of 24 hours does not work, i don't know why but you can't read anything if you look at the data since the beginning of July, one day its 180, next day it's 2, next day it's 150, etc.  I think the thing to do is to squint whilst looking at a graph, if the tops of the mountains are getting smaller, it's getting better.

[Fox in the North 1,488]

How are @Parafoxand @z-layrexfinding things at the moment? Always valued their opinion as medical professionals. Are things as chaotic for you as they were around March/April? 

[dsr-burnley 444]

55 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

And (sorry for me repeating myself) cannot prove this to any burden of proof that such a decision would require.

I think that's the wrong way round for burden of proof.  

 

If an individual decides that visiting mother is on balance the right thing to do, then the Government should not be stopping him or her doing that unless they can prove that allowing it will cause serious harm to the general public.  They shouldn't be placing the burden of proof on the individual to prove that visiting Mother will not harm anyone else.

[z-layrex 2,298]

10 minutes ago, Fox in the North said:

How are @Parafoxand @z-layrexfinding things at the moment? Always valued their opinion as medical professionals. Are things as chaotic for you as they were around March/April? 

Really quiet at my big Central London hospital, as it normally is in October. A few covid in icu beds but not many and rarely very sick.

[leicsmac 4,691]

2 minutes ago, dsr-burnley said:

I think that's the wrong way round for burden of proof.  

 

If an individual decides that visiting mother is on balance the right thing to do, then the Government should not be stopping him or her doing that unless they can prove that allowing it will cause serious harm to the general public.  They shouldn't be placing the burden of proof on the individual to prove that visiting Mother will not harm anyone else.

Well, right now the null hypothesis seems to be that doing things like that *does* bring harm, based on both local and global data - which is why I consider the burden of proof to be in that particular direction.

 

In any case, I'm referring to the argument that "normal" business should resume rather than just the family visits talked about here, so it's a more general than individual argument. And to be specific, I'm asking for scientific proof that the government should change tack and (more importantly) that so doing would be either less or as damaging economically and socially than what is going on right now.

[yorkie1999 4,492]

1 hour ago, Mark 'expert' Lawrenson said:

Early reports say another 19 people have died due to coronavirus in the last 24 hours, this is from the daily mirror though 🙈

Edited 

19, according to the only website that you can make any sense out of, mainly because it's all there in black and white. And it also appears we're having a beginning of July sequence, hopefully.

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/deaths

[StanSP 26,450]

Not a fan of it being called a 'computer glitch'. Makes it sound like it wasn't human error because someone didn't know how to use Excel properly... 

[yorkie1999 4,492]

11 minutes ago, StanSP said:

Not a fan of it being called a 'computer glitch'. Makes it sound like it wasn't human error because someone didn't know how to use Excel properly... 

I think the human error part comes from no-one knowing that you can't use more than 16000 columns, as if anyone would actually think to check that in the first place.

[StanSP 26,450]

Just now, yorkie1999 said:

I think the human error part comes from no-one knowing that you can't use more than 16000 columns, as if anyone would actually think to check that in the first place.

Where did they think the data was going... 

[yorkie1999 4,492]

Just now, StanSP said:

Where did they think the data was going... 

well, once it's pointed out, it seem a bit obvious. What i can't get my head round is for all the time, money and effort that goes into recording this sort of data, why didn't the government get in some oracle whizkids to come up with a proper database.

[Kopfkino 4,180]

I realise I haven't seen the spreadsheet and I've not actually dug into what the problem was, just read a couple of tweets, but I just can't work out why you'd format it that way round in the first place. Why wouldn't you put the unique values in rows instead of columns? Or is the talk of columns bollocks?

Edited 5 October 2020 by Kopfkino

[Parafox 2,641]

2 hours ago, Fox in the North said:

How are @Parafoxand @z-layrexfinding things at the moment? Always valued their opinion as medical professionals. Are things as chaotic for you as they were around March/April? 

For me as a paramedic, no not really. The rise in potential Covid calls has risen but not beyond manageable levels which was the case in the early days when anyone with a mild cough called 999 because thought they where at death's door and would be on a ventilator partly due to the Gov scaremongering that the NHS collapse and would need the nightingale hospitals as it would never cope otherwise. Probably because the Gov had no real idea of what was happening and needed a contingency but it really scared people into not going to hospital when they really should have. People seem to have a greater understanding now and are actually using 111/119 and online NHS information more appropriately. The number of elderly people we go to with potential symptoms is not as high as it was and the number of people we are taking to hospital with underlying conditions that Covid could be threat to has also decreased. Back in April we were pre-alerting A&E resus several times a day and they were on the edge of declaring a major incident as they were at capacity, mainly due to the already full ICU's. Now those have space it seems resus can manage a lot better.

In case you didn't know, if you feel you need a Covid test, call 119. Saves going through the 111 process and it will put you in contact with the right call-handler to get you a kit sent out to you or book an appointment at a test centre.

Anyway, after all that, things for us are probably quieter than the were before Covid because people seem to have taken more responsibility for their own care in the less serious conditions instead of using 999 and A&E as a crutch or a way of getting treated more quickly than waiting for a GP appt.

Edited 5 October 2020 by Parafox

[BKLFox 654]

5 hours ago, ealingfox said:

 

So Tories can blame young people for the virus again a month down the line presumably.

 

The only thing I wanted to see at the cinema at the moment was the James Bond film anyway

 

Well I guess if people don’t start using the cinemas again this might be the last ever 007 u might see

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson 2,639]

11 minutes ago, BKLFox said:

Well I guess if people don’t start using the cinemas again this might be the last ever 007 u might see

Oddly enough on the day Cineworld closed their doors.

[Legend_in_blue 1,663]

4 hours ago, joachim1965 said:

spot on, but I do believe the virus is still here, it will always be here, we can't get rid of it just like you can't get rid of influenza or the common cold (coronavirus), it just isn't as prevailent as the government and media are making us believe,  pcr testing is driving this.

The deaths will increase as we go into winter but that happens every year and we don't normally bat an eyelid.

The death rate due to respiratory conditions is at the moment comparable to the previous five years.

 

According to the data, it is much lower in comparison to the previous 5 years if you take COVID out of the numbers.  When COVID is added in, numbers are indeed comparable to the previous five years.

 

Watch this and you'll understand:

 

 

 

Take from this what you will but I did have to shake my head in disbelief at this graph:

 

 

Crazy at the time to suggest these numbers and even more so now imo.  Why scare the public?  Crazy.

 

[Filbert_Ross 794]

[yorkie1999 4,492]

7 minutes ago, Filbert_Ross said:

Well that’s it then, catch covid and knock 20 years off. Looks so much better for it as well!!

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson 2,639]

10 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Well that’s it then, catch covid and knock 20 years off. Looks so much better for it as well!!

He’s an idiot, a very successful wealthy idiot but an idiot all the same 😝

[Arkie Bennett 565]

1 hour ago, StanSP said:

Where did they think the data was going... 

Matt Hancock. He wants everyone's data.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/mar/22/minister-forced-to-change-his-own-app-after-data-mining-complaints