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5 minutes ago, FoxesDeb said:

So the current restrictions are working then?

Yes, basic restrictions fine, but closing down large parts of the country is madness.

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11 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Personally I disagree completely on the notion that there is no middle ground. 
 

Plenty of folk out there what want to us be sensible with rules/restrictions whilst maintaining some form of an economy. 
 

Its just you’ll find they are not so vocal with it or their argument includes nuance. 
 

The wider point being that debate is increasingly viewed in extremes 

I think that's where most of us are, I just can't be arsed to post my opinions because I'll end up having arguments for hours with the same people on here.

 

PS. Don't close the pubs Boris:nono::beer:

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20 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Personally I disagree completely on the notion that there is no middle ground. 
 

Plenty of folk out there what want to us be sensible with rules/restrictions whilst maintaining some form of an economy. 
 

Its just you’ll find they are not so vocal with it or their argument includes nuance. 
 

The wider point being that debate is increasingly viewed in extremes 

 

It really doesn't help when people come along and insist on creating adversarial boxes to place people into and anyone that doesn't verbatim agree with them goes in the opposite box to them.

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So now we're being told from Monday the pubs will shut once again.  The BBC has become the oracle when it comes to announcing govt measures in advance of them happening.

 

So, two weeks on, the 10pm curfew hasn't worked.  What happens when closing the pubs down completely doesn't work either?

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2 hours ago, joachim1965 said:

we have to, it ain't going away no matter how long you hide from it.

 

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

You should tell all those thousands of scientists worldwide who are wasting their money working on a vaccine - and are optimistic (with no guarantees) that one might be available by the spring.

 

They'll be pleased to be put right by a better-informed chap like yourself. Could save them a lot of money when they halt all their pointless research.

Why does Joachim need to tell the scientists, they already know it, if it was going to just go away they wouldnt be investing time and money in to research of this virus on the scale that they are. They may well be optimistic but they also know that not all drugs work i.e viagra was unsuccessful but had a terrific unplanned side effect.

Spring try end of October or do you want to tell the CEO of pfizer he is wrong.

 

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15 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

So now we're being told from Monday the pubs will shut once again.  The BBC has become the oracle when it comes to announcing govt measures in advance of them happening.

 

So, two weeks on, the 10pm curfew hasn't worked.  What happens when closing the pubs down completely doesn't work either?

Apparently the pubs in "the North" will shut. How far down that covers I've no idea.

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2 hours ago, st albans fox said:

Number of deaths on the seven day average - yes 

 

now up to 53 which is where we were at the beginning of July.  In early September, that measure was barely making double figures.  I’m sad that some posters seem to be unable to comprehend that people get ill weeks before they will die.  Staying relaxed and allowing cases to grow and consequently deaths that will undoubtedly follow to levels which public opinion won’t allow, is surely the worst option as the restrictions which will be brought in would be more draconian. If you believe that health workers should be forced to play Russian roulette and catch this then shame on you. 
 

and to the few who haven’t come across this illness ..... it’s real and you don’t want in your household or family.....

There will be more than a few who haven't come across this illness.  Fewer than 1 in 100 people have tested positive, and many of those who tested positive have barely come across the illness.  After all, 17 people at Leyton Orient FC had it, 16 people at Sale RFU had it, and in both cases they didn't know they had it until everyone was tested.  

 

The problem is not just that coronavirus has caused deaths, and it's possible but unlikely that it will cause as many again.  That's only part of the problem.  The problem is also that the solution to coronavirus has caused deaths and other problems, and will continue to do so.  Schools closed for another 6 months, another 40,000 cancer referrals missed, cervical, prostate and breast cancer clinics suspended, doctors' surgeries remain closed or practically so, dementia patients getting rapidly worse because they cannot get any of the recommended ways of keeping their minds active.  And 2 million operations cancelled already; that's two million people whose eyesight is not being improved, whose ruined joints are not being replaced, whose early stage cancer is being allowed to become later stage cancer.  And of course millions of jobs lost.  And I would predict (though no-one is going to say so yet) that retirement age will be up at least another year to pay for all this lot.

 

It's not that easy, for me at least, to look at the way the death rate has risen since August and compare it with the way the death rate rose in March and think the two are similar.  To me, they look vastly different, and the September figures look very much like a ripple not a wave.  Maybe I;m wrong.  But another lockdown would be a solution worse than the cure IMO.  THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT DOCTORS, NURSES AND PEOPLE GENERALLY.  The argument "you disagree with me so you should be ashamed" is no argument at all.

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48 minutes ago, twoleftfeet said:

 

Why does Joachim need to tell the scientists, they already know it, if it was going to just go away they wouldnt be investing time and money in to research of this virus on the scale that they are. They may well be optimistic but they also know that not all drugs work i.e viagra was unsuccessful but had a terrific unplanned side effect.

Spring try end of October or do you want to tell the CEO of pfizer he is wrong.

 

 

He said: "we have to [live with it]". There's at least a reasonable chance of a vaccine some time next year, so we clearly don't just have to live with it.

We can opt to protect as many lives as possible while minimizing economic harm & other physical/mental health problems and supporting businesses that would be viable again post-Covid.

Of course, there's a risk of there being no fully successful vaccine and it's sensible to plan for that outcome - but not to assume that the worst will happen.

 

He also said that "it ain't going away no matter how long you hide from it". But if there's a vaccine, it will "go away" as a threat, so there's no need to live with it - and it makes sense to "hide from it" to a reasonable extent by minimizing risk for self and others, without taking it to a ridiculous extent (closing everything down and everyone living in oxygen tents for a year or whatever).

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6 hours ago, dsr-burnley said:

There will be more than a few who haven't come across this illness.  Fewer than 1 in 100 people have tested positive, and many of those who tested positive have barely come across the illness.  After all, 17 people at Leyton Orient FC had it, 16 people at Sale RFU had it, and in both cases they didn't know they had it until everyone was tested.  

 

The problem is not just that coronavirus has caused deaths, and it's possible but unlikely that it will cause as many again.  That's only part of the problem.  The problem is also that the solution to coronavirus has caused deaths and other problems, and will continue to do so.  Schools closed for another 6 months, another 40,000 cancer referrals missed, cervical, prostate and breast cancer clinics suspended, doctors' surgeries remain closed or practically so, dementia patients getting rapidly worse because they cannot get any of the recommended ways of keeping their minds active.  And 2 million operations cancelled already; that's two million people whose eyesight is not being improved, whose ruined joints are not being replaced, whose early stage cancer is being allowed to become later stage cancer.  And of course millions of jobs lost.  And I would predict (though no-one is going to say so yet) that retirement age will be up at least another year to pay for all this lot.

 

It's not that easy, for me at least, to look at the way the death rate has risen since August and compare it with the way the death rate rose in March and think the two are similar.  To me, they look vastly different, and the September figures look very much like a ripple not a wave.  Maybe I;m wrong.  But another lockdown would be a solution worse than the cure IMO.  THIS DOES NOT MEAN THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT DOCTORS, NURSES AND PEOPLE GENERALLY.  The argument "you disagree with me so you should be ashamed" is no argument at all.

This is all avoidable if we accept we need to change our lifestyles until a vaccine is found or enough of the population have had it to mean it struggles to transmit quickly and efficiently.  people have got used to not distancing socially, to take risks, to do what they were asked not to, to refuse to abide by the restrictions.  If they continue to do that then the bold type in your post will inevitably happen again imo because public opinion will demand it as the tv pictures show the hospitals struggling to cope etc etc.  I don’t believe we are being asked to do that much to avoid a proper re introduced lockdown - but I don’t trust the govt to handle it either. they are too reactive and led by focus groups. so I expect that if enough of the general public continue to show a lack of responsibility in dealing with this then govt will end up doing what none of want to see because they will feel they have no option.  
 

those arguing that restrictions aren’t needed etc are merely encouraging those that don’t see the need to do the right thing to continue that way. 

 

We aren’t going to change the people running this sh1tshow so given that what we’re being asked to do isn’t so awful, we should just get on with it. 

 

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8 hours ago, Otis said:

Yes, basic restrictions fine, but closing down large parts of the country is madness.

Correct, however, the government sloppy initial reaction will forever mean they will essentially jump from one knee jerk reaction to the next. I won’t be at all surprised if they force the pubs, restaurants and indoor sports facilities to close once again. 

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1 hour ago, Stadt said:

Tested positive, had all of the symptoms bar the coughing. The worst thing is random shooting aches in my bones 

I really hope you start to feel better soon, take care of yourself

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1 minute ago, The People's Hero said:

Its going to kill all our businesses and careers before it kills us.

 

Brokers are telling me of so many companies who are preparing to shut up shop when Furlough ends and a bunch more will do so if they are affected by another lockdown.

 

Who remembers the high street? !

 

 

 

I'm in no way informed about the virus itself or whatever by the way, just I speak all day every day to insurance brokers who in turn obviously spend their time talking to insureds, many of whom are business owners.

 

If you think its been bad so far, you wait until the furlough scheme finishes and the country starts to lockdown again, little by little, region by region.

 

 

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Just now, The People's Hero said:

 

I'm in no way informed about the virus itself or whatever by the way, just I speak all day every day to insurance brokers who in turn obviously spend their time talking to insureds, many of whom are business owners.

 

If you think its been bad so far, you wait until the furlough scheme finishes and the country starts to lockdown again, little by little, region by region.

 

 

Christ this is like when you had all that ITK transfer knowledge all over again lol 

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